(Topic ID: 239585)

Legal Advice: Jury Duty

By Zitt

5 years ago


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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by ImNotNorm
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There are 257 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 6.
-12
#1 5 years ago

Looking for some realistic legal advice (or supportive and/or cooler heads) regarding jury duty here in the State of Texas. To be specific; I fully understand and respect that it's my civil duty to serve the community as a juror. This is not the issue - it all comes down to what is right and what is not.

Basically; I was summoned to jury duty on Wed of this month. (IE 3/27/2019) with less than a month's notice. To that end; I followed the "online juror" system where it asked a bunch of questions seemingly randomly selecting me to serve on the 450th District Court on the 8th of April. I was fine with this... and had no concerns.

This changed today when I got the week in advanced reminder about serving today at 6pm. That when I sent a very strongly worded email back to the travis county jury account stating that I wouldn't be reporting for jury duty. Let me explain.

The form email to me today stated the following (I'll trim it down to only relevant portions):

==quote==
VERY IMPORTANT: Please confirm receipt of your assignment by replying to this email stating your full name. 

Dear Juror:

Thank you for completing the summons response.  Unless otherwise instructed, you must report for jury duty service on the anticipated report date/time listed above.  Failing to report may result in the court issuing a Show Cause Order requiring you to appear in court to explain your reason for your failure to report for jury duty service.

2.      Reserved juror parking is not available.  You are encouraged to use public transportation (CapMetro http://capmetro.org/) or other available means of transportation.  Please keep in mind that the courts are not able to validate or reimburse you for parking garage tickets (any parking garage) or reimburse towing costs, so if you park at a garage or in a space subject to towing, any fees incurred will be your responsibility.

If you use metered parking around the courthouse on the first day of your jury selection, please follow the instructions on the meter.  Here is the link for where the meters are located in downtown Austin:   https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Transportation/Parking/meter_areas_042015.pdf

If you receive a parking citation with the stated violation of “Expired Meter” or “Expired Pay Station,” it can be dismissed by the City of Austin if you turn it in to the bailiff of the court you are assigned to or, send a picture of the parking citation and email to the jury office at:  [email protected] along with your contact information.  Please submit within 5 days to avoid a late notice by the City of Austin.

Very Important!  If you receive a parking citation for any other violation other than “Expired Meter” or “Expired Pay Station” you are personally responsible for paying that ticket.  

==end quote==
This is what ended it for me.

1) Let's just state for the record right now; that my day-time employeer has no issues allowing me to serve. It's not even a concern. They will continue to pay me my salary while I serve.
2) I'm not in financial stress. I can afford to pay for parking... if it was something I needed to do. IE If it was a pinball festival... or some other recreational activity I wanted to do.

This is how I responded to that email at 6:43pm tonight:

I will not be reporting due to this email.

As a Citizen of the United States; I expect there to be no financial hardship incurred because of this civil duty.

The fact that the state ( or County) government refuses to pay for parking or provide reserved parking for Jurors indicates you really don’t understand your responsibilities. My tax dollars should go to this; the fact that it doesn’t indicates a broken system.

I won’t be paying for my own parking or taking the inconvenient and expensive public transportation.

and "signed" with my full name.

The fact of the matter is I'm funking pissed about the balls on our government... thinking they can dictate to me how *I* choose to spend my money. I pay my damn taxes... I support my community thru those takes and proudly exercise my right to vote.
What makes ZERO sense to me is how the hell the state government thinks it's their right to trample my liberties and "tax" me additionally for the "privileged" for "serving" as a juror. I know those are a lot of big words which really shouldn't be used to describe this situation... but I'm really angry at the audacity of the government.

No. I don't think this is the end of it; and no... I'm sure they'll may some bullsh1t threat to me that I really don't have a choice. But; really?! Ummm… I'm pretty sure the constitution doesn't say they have this right.
I'm sure at some point early next week I'll get an email from them. And/or I'll be forced to call them on the telephone to "discuss" this matter... but really; I'm "done" with this. If they want to issue a "Show Cause Order" - that's fine. This is just something I feel very strongly about.

So; what would you do? Yes, I know that 99% of other people would say it's far cheaper to pay for parking than to have to hire a lawyer to go against the state for contempt of court charges or whatever... but damnit... really? If I don't standup for what is right; who will?

32
#2 5 years ago

I would just go. You've got only one life to fight the important battles. This isn't one of them.

#3 5 years ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

You've got only one life to fight the important battles. This isn't one of them.

That sentimentality is exactly why this pisses me off.
Not going unless they issue a "stop order". I have no problems telling the judge why I won't serve. But this now a matter of principle.
They can find me a jury where there is free parking or go pound sand

13
#4 5 years ago

It is your choice to drive a car and make it convenient. You could walk and not have to pay. Your argument is then not valid.

-1
#5 5 years ago
Quoted from Patentlaw:

It is your choice to drive a car and make it convenient. You could walk and not have to pay. Your argument is then not valid.

LOL. What? Really?
Umm. Nope.

#6 5 years ago

Is this really going to be a trend here? I mean I get it... it's not your problem.
But I can't really believe no one understands my anger at this.

#7 5 years ago

Wait... WHAT? You want to skip out on your duty because they are making you pay for parking? (I missed something, because you don't make that obvious)
We have very few duties as American's. One of our Bill of Rights is a trial by jury. IF you expect to have a jury of your peers, you need to be willing to server on a jury.

As far as paying for parking, take the bus. They will typically reimburse you for the bus fare.

I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on the internet, but if you fail to show for jury duty, without an excuse, they can issue a bench warrant for your arrest.

#9 5 years ago

What I've been told is that it is perfectly legal to ignore the summons, since it's sent by regular first class mail. Once you acknowledge it, though, you're on the hook. I'm having a hard time understanding why you're drawing the line where you are. Best of luck, but I'm also not sure why you're looking to a pinball forum for help or advice. It seems you're probably out a few dollars for a day or two worth of parking, then most likely you're off the hook for a while. If that's the whole deal, then I'd just call it good. Otherwise, as has been suggested, there is always public transportation, or even Uber.

#10 5 years ago

Lol I hope you get arrested for being too much of a whiny little douchebag to fulfill your Civic duty.

As was mentioned before, you're not required to drive there.

#11 5 years ago

It looks like you may have trimmed out the part of their email that talked about parking (or at least it's not showing up on my display) so I can't tell what the issue was exactly.

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from chrismcb:

As far as paying for parking, take the bus. They will typically reimburse you for the bus fare.

They don't clearly state that they don't pay for ANY transportation to the courthouse but it's clear in the tone of the email that no travel costs will be reimbursed.

And no; I intend to call them and simply tell them I won't be serving and the reason why.

https://www.uscourts.gov/services-forms/jury-service/juror-pay

That is for the US GOV.
For the state of texas; does not apply.

Jurors are paid $6 for their first day of service ($10 if selected & trial starts the same day) and $40 for every subsequent day of service.

Quoted from fosaisu:

It looks like you may have trimmed out the part of their email that talked about parking (or at least it's not showing up on my display) so I can't tell what the issue was exactly.

I didn't trim it out... looks like the block quote part of Pinside is doing something weird. Here's the full except of bullet 2:

2.      Reserved juror parking is not available.  You are encouraged to use public transportation (CapMetro http://capmetro.org/) or other available means of transportation.  Please keep in mind that the courts are not able to validate or reimburse you for parking garage tickets (any parking garage) or reimburse towing costs, so if you park at a garage or in a space subject to towing, any fees incurred will be your responsibility.

If you use metered parking around the courthouse on the first day of your jury selection, please follow the instructions on the meter.  Here is the link for where the meters are located in downtown Austin:   https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Transportation/Parking/meter_areas_042015.pdf

If you receive a parking citation with the stated violation of “Expired Meter” or “Expired Pay Station,” it can be dismissed by the City of Austin if you turn it in to the bailiff of the court you are assigned to or, send a picture of the parking citation and email to the jury office at:  [email protected] along with your contact information.  Please submit within 5 days to avoid a late notice by the City of Austin.

Very Important!  If you receive a parking citation for any other violation other than “Expired Meter” or “Expired Pay Station” you are personally responsible for paying that ticket.  

23
#13 5 years ago

Try a social experiment
Skip the duty
Ignore the bench warrant
When they knock on your door tell them to suck it before slamming it
When swat shows up for an extraction
Burst out the front door naked and run down the street.

#14 5 years ago

There is a good chance they will excuse you now from the jury service. I got summoned once and I did respond. I told them I work in a school district as a computer tech, but we are under staffed and I had 5 buildings that I was responsible. That yes, my employer would give me the time off for those days, but then nobody would be able to cover my workload, and as a result both teachers and students equipment would go unrepaired or serviced. And I said, I don't think that is fair for the students. They agreed and told me I didn't need to report.
All that is true.

I am surprised they don't validate for what I would assume would be a parking lot or a parking garage. I know in my county the parking is taken care of. Strange... But, again. There is a chance they will just let you not serve now.

And please no one tell me I was derelict in my duties. I would gladly serve, if it didn't mean that all the broken computers wouldn't sit for the whole time I was out. It's not about the work load I would have to assume when I got back from work, its the fact that those are machines or projectors that wouldn't be working the whole time I was out, and it really would badly impact the students. Teachers flip out when the accidentally mute a projector and I get called in all the time to just turn back up or on the volume. And then I have to tell them, don't worry this happens all the time. So without me the tech at those buildings would have gone all Lord Of The Flies.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Is this really going to be a trend here? I mean I get it... it's not your problem.
But I can't really believe no one understands my anger at this.

I've got five days of jury duty lined up next month. I once spent SIX weeks on a jury. So yeah this isn't exactly my problem, but many of us have been there.
But I guess many of us don't understand your anger. It is jury duty, it is your duty as an American. If that means you have to pay for parking, then you pay for parking. Or get a friend to take you.

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

That is for the US GOV.
For the state of texas; does not apply.

I included a link for the State of Texas below the federal link.

#17 5 years ago

It is bad ju-ju to tell the court system to take a hike.

36
#18 5 years ago

I am an attorney in the State of Texas. I pick juries. Trust me, you aren’t getting picked. The instructions basically spell out how you can rig the system: go park in a metered spot that is expired and walk inside. Then take a picture of your citation for expired meter and send the pic to the clerk to be dismissed. Voila.

I do think you are missing the point of civic duty, but I don’t have any interest in debating you.

#19 5 years ago

Everything is bigger in Texas

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from gambit3113:

I do think you are missing the point of civic duty, but I don’t have any interest in debating you.

So it's my civic duty to pay Parking fees to some corporation to the privilege to serve on a jury?
When it's clear by TheHueManatee 's two links that both the federal government and the state government do re-imburse for these fees.
I'm pretty sure that when I last did jury duty in Oregon... they also re-imbursed for parking.

I'm really have a real issue with this whole "civic duty" argument when I've already stated I was PERFECTLY OK serving until that bullcrap email came to me indicating that parking wasn't covered.

30
#21 5 years ago

You know what, screw it. Let’s uncork this bottle. In your scenario, the government is trampling your balls by imposing a jury service tax upon you, through forcing you to appear for jury duty by way of your choosing, yes? You choose to drive yourself in your own vehicle.

Ok. You drive downtown and choose to park where? A parking garage for the District Court that is state owned and geographically convenient to the courthouse? The Constitution doesn’t guarantee you that convenience, and certainly not for free.

Well, what about a private surface lot? Shall the government trample the balls of the private land owner on whose property you now want to leave your car, by forcing them to grant you that service? That sounds like slavery with extra steps.

How about a metered spot, on a public street and maintained by the municipality? Well, you do get an out there with a loophole, but the city shall eat the cost for your Constitutional civic duty? Ok. Pass the buck if you can, I guess.

Or you can walk. Or take a jet pack. Or skateboard. Or drive a mile away and find a street with a free spot open and hoof it to the courthouse. You literally have endless ways to get there at zero cost, they are just not as convenient. But, again, you have no protected or granted right to such convenience. I guess I’m failing to see the atrocity.

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

When it's clear by TheHueManatee 's two links that both the federal government and the state government do re-imburse for these fees.

That’s if you get picked. You get compensated and reimbursed for days that you serve on a jury. Not sit on a panel.

#23 5 years ago

gambit3113 - fair argument from that view point. I see your point.

Quoted from gambit3113:

Ok. You drive downtown and choose to park where? A parking garage for the District Court that is state owned and geographically convenient to the courthouse? The Constitution doesn’t guarantee you that convenience, and certainly not for free.

Actually; that is exactly what I expect. I don't force the local county government to "sell" all their parking spaces to corporation or for them not to actually provide parking.
I do actually expect them to provide reasonable parking for jurors. From the moment I start at 9am on Monday until I'm officially dismissed from duty. My expectation is not unreasonable.
Do I expect them to provide me a helicopter port and allow me to fly in to jury duty? No. But I also shouldn't expect them to say; f'it… it's your problem not ours either.

But as a juror/civic duty; isn't it the responsibility of the government to provide for a trial for these people?
And by providing; doesn't that duty follow that the courts duty is to ensure the jurors are of sound mind and would be able to give that person a fair trial.

The fact that I'm actually spending MY MONEY to support this persons' trial isn't at all setting well with me. and frankly; it shouldn't set well with you.

Just because the gov "can" request that the jurors should pay for parking... or to walk to trial... or to catch a bus to trial shouldn't mean they SHOULD request it. It's not my civic responsibility endorse yet another form of corp taxation just for the civic duty to give someone a fair trial. It's completely within my right and expectation that the government properly fund and staff this keystone capability of our free society.

I see this as yet another "cost cutting" tactic of our gov. They can't and won't fund infrastructure… instead opting to "sell" our road system to the Toll road foreign governments. Now our local gov can't afford to pay for jurors to not be inconvenienced to the "civic duty".

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

The fact that I'm actually spending MY MONEY to support this persons' trial isn't at all setting well with me. and frankly; it shouldn't set well with you.

I'm not sure I can see the logic. The point of civil service, in my opinion, is to contribute to the mechanisms that support a free a fair society. There are costs to that that aren't just dollars and cents. I personally wouldn't put conditions this small and petty against my appreciation for the fact that we have this liberty and a system that protects it.

If its a financial strain to park, then its certainly a financial strain to participate and the court has provisions for that.

However we all know what opinions are like, so here's the advice you asked for originally. Call the court on Monday and find out what they want to do about it, because you might already have a summons for failure to attend and you'll certainly have to pay to park that day. That is unless you get a free ride from a trooper from a jail cell.

It's one thing to disagree with the government, another to disobey.

#25 5 years ago

I have your solution. Drive yourself to the courthouse at 5:00AM. There will be at least one open spot on the street. Park there. Take a nap until metered parking begins. Plop a nickel or a quarter into your meter, whatever the minimum fee. Take another nap in your car until Jury Duty starts. Go do your duty as an American Citizen. If you get a parking ticket, follow instructions to get the fine waived. Reimburse yourself for the nickel/quarter with a free cup of coffee at the courthouse if it makes you feel better. No free coffee, then flush the toilet in the ladies' room fifty times to get your revenge.

Freedom isn't free. You have to pay taxes and (very) occasionally you have to do jury duty. Stop with the expectation that you are entitled to everything you think is "fair".

#26 5 years ago

I can only speak for Dallas County, but 4000 citizens are summoned for jury duty every business day. Monday thru Wednesday are the days that most are actually called down. Of those 4000, an average of ~3000 show up. So we are talking about $15K to $30K in parking fees that would have to be comped, per day. And we live in a capitalist society. No socialism will abide, dude. So we definitely charge for our parking.

Yes. The Constitution affords every person standing trial and every civil litigant the right to a trial by jury. And part of the court fees imposed in criminal courts (and the Jury Fee imposes on those civil litigants requesting a jury) pay for the expense of paying that jury for a day of service. Your parking fees are not supporting the right to a jury trial. You aren’t spending your money to support anything other than your convenience.

-3
#27 5 years ago
Quoted from gambit3113:

You aren’t spending your money to support anything other than your convenience.

So; in 1849... when the state of texas called jurors. They didn't provide compensation to the jurors for travel? They didn't provide a post for them to hitch their horse to?

I get it. Dallas county doesn't want to pay 30k in parking fees per day. Who would. But instead; they want the jurors to provide it?
How is that capitalism? Oh; I see... so the county of Dallas sells the right to park to the highest corp bidder... so they actually tax the jurors. That's the very definition of capitalism or socialism.

Note; that in no way did the summons or recent email identify any "free" methods to do this civic duty. CapMetro which they did provide a link to is actually a public transportation business whom charges the riders for this service.

#28 5 years ago

The jury summons in Dallas includes a DART pass for free transit via bus or light rail train, and you receive a return pass for the asking when you report.

#29 5 years ago

There are no free parking options anywhere in downtown.

This from 5 years ago confirms it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/1qiecl/jury_duty_suggestions/

So basically; I can park at work... which is 1.25 hour walk via 6th street.
so yeah; this is an awesome service provided by our local government.

#30 5 years ago

It's not the hill I'd choose to fall on, but all I can say is make sure you have a lawyer on speed dial in case it goes sideways. Good luck.

#31 5 years ago

Your trial assignment letter, which you receive at impaneling or via email, will provide transportation instructions. If you are assigned to the Travis County courthouse complex, no public garage parking is available. You can elect to pay to park for up to 5 hours at one of the City parking meters around the courthouse; however, the number of spaces is limited.

The above is from your area.

If you don't like the area that you live in, then you can always move. You chose to live in that area of Texas. This is the burden you pay. Just like living in an area of high taxes, bad traffic, air pollution, etc. Your choice.

Lastly, the test is that you can get excused for "undue hardship". If you can prove that the 5 bucks or whatever is undue hardship on you while you have 20k in pinball machines, perhaps your calling should be that of a lawyer. Or perhaps you should not because you are arguing for no reason and will lose every case, just like your arguments here.

One more thought....you can ask for an excuse based on mental health reasons.

From the website...

Travis County will accommodate anyone with a medical problem or a disability to help them complete their jury service.
However, any juror with a medical problem or disability who wishes to be excused may request so in writing. The request should be accompanied by a letter from the health care provider verifying the medical problem and the need for you to be excused. The request can be sent to the jury office by mailing it to Velva L. Price, Travis County District Clerk/Jury Management Office, P.O. Box 679003, Austin, TX 78767, fax to (512) 854-4457 or scan and email to [email protected] Please be sure to include your jury number found on the front of your jury summons along with your full name. All requests to be excused are subject to verification.

#32 5 years ago

I got a 'get out of jury duty card'

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from PopBumperPete:

I got a 'get out of jury duty card'

One Nation membership?

#34 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

If I don't standup for what is right; who will?

If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.

I agree that you shouldn’t have to pay (for parking) to attend court as a jury member. A juror is an integral part of the court system, you need them as much as a judge for some cases, yet the courthouse didn’t have enough foresight to include parking. Your tax dollars helped build that courthouse, there should be a minimum amount of parking provided for these people. Maybe not enough parking for everyone, but a lot with 100 spots just for jury members would be nice. You’re already being inconvenienced for the day. (but just think of the potential profit loss, capitalism won’t allow that.)

At minimum a ticket for public transportation should be provided. If you don’t live in an area with public transportation, then alternatives should be provided too.

BUT even here in socialist Canada, I think you have to pay for parking at the courthouse.

#35 5 years ago

Guilty. There. Jury duty finished.

#36 5 years ago

Zitt,I know many folks go to jury duty as it is their right! However ,if you feel its not for you ( as I do )just tell them you are predudist, and they emeidiatly let you go!!

#37 5 years ago

Geez.....is it really that big of a deal? How often do you get picked? I live in a smaller county and on average I get picked every 2 years.....you live in a MUCH bigger county and you get picked every 3-5 years perhaps? Get over it.

If it really burns you start talking to your city council and go the legal route to get laws changed for EVERYONE to benefit if this is really that important.

Secondly your first mistake is responding at all and do what about 20% of people do....throw the summons away and if anything comes of it the answer is you never got it.....just kidding as that is wrong as well.

The people you are fighting this with did not make the rules...they just enforce them. The law makers are the only ones that can change it and that is who you need to petition for change.

I get it’s the principle of having to pay for “your convenience” and maybe it should not be that way.

Tread lightly as this topic can turn political real quickly.....

#38 5 years ago

They should offer free parking. The judge and lawyers are paid well enough, why should you take a hit? Perhaps the court should front the parking money and the loser of the case should have to reimburse the fees as part of court costs.

#39 5 years ago

Just wear a "i love jury nullification" t-shirt and you won't stay long.

#40 5 years ago

Remind me to never buy a pinball machine from this guy. Holy jeezus on toast this thread is insane. Over friggen PARKING, which you dont even have to pay for if you took the time to read

Also, @Hawkmoon. Holy crap, man. English much? "However ,if you feel its not for you ( as I do )just tell them you are predudist, and they emeidiatly let you go!!"

#41 5 years ago

I went to Jury duty about ten years ago, waited around for several hours of nonsense reading about Chernobyl in some magazine. Some guy that looked like a drunk being charged with something drunk driving and other things, walks in with his lawyer and waves at all of us. The judge asked, ''does anyone here have something that they'd like to say before we proceed with selection?'' I paused, and was the only one to stick my hand up.

The judge called me up, and asked what the problem was, I said ''He looks like a drunk to me, he definitely looks guilty to me!'' the judge immediately said I was free to go. As I was walking out, the judge asked if anyone else had anything to say before they proceeded for selection, and a whole bunch of hands went up.

They've never summoned me back. Shrugs.

P.s, over parking? Get real, at least show up like a man and tell the judge to his face about his parking fees.

#42 5 years ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

I went to Jury duty about ten years ago, waited around for several hours of nonsense reading about Chernobyl in some magazine. Some guy that looked like a drunk being charged with something drunk driving and other things, walks in with his lawyer and waves at all of us. The judge asked, ''does anyone here have something that they'd like to say before we proceed with selection?'' I paused, and was the only one to stick my hand up.
The judge called me up, and asked what the problem was, I said ''He looks like a drunk to me, he definitely looks guilty to me!'' the judge immediately said I was free to go. As I was walking out, the judge asked if anyone else had anything to say before they proceeded for selection, and a whole bunch of hands went up.
They've never summoned me back. Shrugs.

But did you have to pay for parking?

#43 5 years ago
Quoted from ImNotNorm:

Did you have to pay for parking?

I don't recall having to pay but maybe I did? I did put my big boy pants on, drove there, parked and faced the judge.

#44 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

If you receive a parking citation with the stated violation of “Expired Meter” or “Expired Pay Station,” it can be dismissed by the City of Austin if you turn it in to the bailiff of the court you are assigned to or, send a picture of the parking citation and email to the jury office at:  [email protected] along with your contact information.  Please submit within 5 days to avoid a late notice by the City of Austin.

This right here. Just show up and park. Take the ticket, and send it in to this email per the directions and your parking is paid for. Just follow the rules. It really seems like you are whining to whine. You don't even need to front load a quarter in the meter since you plan on eating the ticket.

#45 5 years ago

You're in Texas... You'll have a guilty verdict in under an hour.

#46 5 years ago

I have heard stuff on jury duty that put me in a seizure trying not to laugh out loud. And one that made me so angry that everything in the room changed colors. A child molestion case. It was a pain and inconvient, it just my turn.

#47 5 years ago
Quoted from NY2Colorado:

You're in Texas... You'll have a guilty verdict in under an hour.

He’s in Austin. Dallas, Austin and the Valley are actually pretty normally functioning, fair venues. The rest of the state, however, is very Queen of Hearts.

#48 5 years ago

So you are getting paid by your employer and you are getting whatever pittance the state pays you for your days of jury service and yet you are bitching about parking? I understand your basic argument that they should provide parking but in your case I'd say you should count your blessings and be thankful, go do your civic duty and take it seriously. What is parking going to actually cost? If you were working a job where you don't get paid when you don't work, were scraping by pay check to pay check, etc. I'd be sympathetic to your plight but in this case I say suck it up buttercup. BTW - they do tell you exactly how you can get free parking so I expect the court to come back with a strongly worded response reminding you they have the power to stick your ass in a cell for a while if you don't comply.

#49 5 years ago

Times are changing, I suppose. I find it strange that the authorities are relying on email to address a potential juror. “Gee, your Honor, I never got your email”.

#50 5 years ago

this is all part of the massive balanced budget effort of course

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