(Topic ID: 125124)

Weird scoring issue. look to bottom of thread.

By Tridentphoto

9 years ago


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#1 9 years ago

I am helping a friend but I hit a wall.
I replaced the bad coil on the left sling shot of a bally zip a doo because it was shot, and the game shut down every time the ball hit the left sling. But it still doing the same thing. The right one works fine. What would cause this? I have no schematic and I don't know where to look next

#2 9 years ago

What do you mean by 'shut down'? Does it go completely dark? Just won't play? Is it in game over mode? Does it blow a fuse? Describe a bit more exactly what it does and we might be able to point you in the right direction.

#3 9 years ago

It goes dark.
You can start a new game if you press the button. Otherwise it is dead
It did just burn a wire going to the game over relay the last time I pressed it so once I fix that maybe it was the problem

#4 9 years ago

Well, how did you go?

Quoted from Tridentphoto:

It did just burn a wire going to the game over relay the last time I pressed it so once I fix that maybe it was the problem

#5 9 years ago

Sounds like a burnt up coil causing a short. Also, an overfuse condition on the 50 volt circuit that causes the Anti-Cheat relay to drop out. That burnt wire by the game Over Relay burnt for a reason.

1 week later
#6 8 years ago

I just fixed it today, and yes, it was a shorted coil issue, and an over fused issue, and a couple fuses were soldered in to broken fuse sockets.
So it runs fine, although the ball count lights don't work. The bulbs are good, and the 1st light flickers when you start a game, but does not stay lit.
The machine counts balls fine, and ends after 5, but the lights don't come on to indicate.

#7 8 years ago
Quoted from Tridentphoto:

The machine counts balls fine, and ends after 5, but the lights don't come on to indicate.

If this was a Gottlieb, I would write.
"That the ball count unit was slightly out of alignment. The contacts are not in the proper position, and that the stepper is also actually stepping."

#8 8 years ago
Quoted from Darcy:

If this was a Gottlieb, I would write.
"That the ball count unit was slightly out of alignment. The contacts are not in the proper position, and that the stepper is also actually stepping."

Is there a Jones type connection between the ball count unit and the lights for the backglass? There could be a bad connection there.

(^^^^Ignore, Not Possible^^^)

#9 8 years ago

I don't think so, looks like the wires run direct to the ball count unit.

#10 8 years ago

On the side of the Ball Count Unit with the fingers and contacts may need cleaning. Even the small one that is touching the underside of the finger part. My "Novice" best guess is that the current is not reaching the light bulbs.

#11 8 years ago

In case there is any concern the sockets might be at fault a simple test to eliminate the lamp sockets would be to jumper power to each one with a known good bulb in them.

One step at a time.

#12 8 years ago

So bulbs are good. Contacts are good. I tested continuity from the count reel to the socket, and that's good too. The 1st ball light flicks on for a sec right at the beginning and goes out.
Shit. I just realized what it is. It's the game over/start relay latch contact spacing. I was typin in all the stuff I checked, then I was watching the score moter as I started the game. The light flickered for a second when the second reel tripped the game over /game start relay latch. So I lifted the contact on the second cam to make it active, and sure enough. As long as I held it, activating the start half of the relay latch, the ball light was on. It's like one CH too much gap that when latched it doesn't touch, but if energized it does.
Thanks to everyone who chimed in to help.

#13 8 years ago

Now here's an interesting phenomenon. When the 10pt reel scores once, the 100pt coil is energized and hums. Then the second time the 10pt reel gets energized both it and the hundred pt reel score advance. So for every second hit of a 10pt target you get an additional 100.
What could cause that? Bad spacing on the 10's advance so it always thinks it's at 9?

#14 8 years ago
#15 8 years ago

On both the first and second player too.

1 week later
#16 8 years ago
Quoted from Tridentphoto:

When the 10pt reel scores once, the 100pt coil is energized and hums. Then the second time the 10pt reel gets energized both it and the hundred pt reel score advance. So for every second hit of a 10pt target you get an additional 100.

What is odd here, if the 100 point Re is energised than the 100 point reel should advance. Why is it energising and not advancing the score every time?

#17 8 years ago

I'm thinking the 100 reel doesn't score every time, because the coil just locks on, then lets go the next time you hit a point. so its basically going through half the scoring action each time.
I am going to stick my head in the machine again this weekend. I had hoped I might have had some traction on the forum for a possible starting point.

#18 8 years ago

So every time the 00-90 unit advances one, the coil for the 100pt score locks on, thus energizing the coil on the 100pt reel. then when the 00-90 unit moves 1 more time it releases. so the issue is why does the 00-90 unit cause the 100pt relay to energize?

#19 8 years ago

Hi Tridentphoto
I am suspicious too - "Bad spacing on the 10's advance ..." ? Maybe the blades of the switch are VERY close and (now and then) make "faulty-contact" ? Strange is: "every second time ..."
Want to try ? (what is happening with the 100 Point-Relay ?) -> for "just to have a look ..." -> Sneak in a stripe of paper INTO the "Position-9-Switch" of Player-1-10th-Reel and Player-2-10th-Reel for "insulation of the switch-blades (9th-Pos-Sw) is GARANTEED" -> play a couple of games. Of course 70 -> 80 -> 90 -> 100 will not work. It will be 70 -> 80 -> 90 -> 00. Besides of this: Everything "normal" with the 100 (Relay and the wheels) ? Greetings Rolf

#20 8 years ago

I just tried to isolate the issue a bit. When the 00-90 unit advances, and the 100's coil locks, I started to lift the spider contacts on the 00-99 unit. There is a portion of the 00-99 wheel where if I lift either the outside ring of rivets contact or the second inner ring of contacts, it releases. so I masked the section of the reel on the outside rivets (basically covered about 10 of them with tape, and it played perfectly for the player 1. when I tried on player 2 it would score for the 10's but would never roll over the 100's.

Ill try what you suggested to see what happens. so block the pos 9 on both the 1st and second player reels on the 10's reel?

#21 8 years ago

I covered all the contacts on the P1 & P2 10's score reel, and it made no difference at all.

#22 8 years ago

Your issue sounds more like a stuck playfield scoring switch to me. Locking the score relay in is a classic symptom of this. What is odd is how the match stepper comes into play. The fact that it indexing creates a lock/unlock condition every other time it indexes isn't familiar to me. But I'm more familiar with Gottlieb games and anything is possible with these.

I'd still look at stuck playfield scoring switches if you haven't already.

#23 8 years ago

I have looked at those but I don't think that's it. It boots up at zero. No coil lock. It's not till you hit the first 10pt target that it does the 100pt coil energize, then I noticed it won't even score 100pt target, till you hit a 10pt again to release it.

#24 8 years ago

It may be listed above but have you confirmed all of your jones plugs are seated properly, not one pin off?

#25 8 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

It may be listed above but have you confirmed all of your jones plugs are seated properly, not one pin off?

This happened to me the other day after I'd removed my Target Alpha playfield for some light-socket soldering. I thought I'd done something wrong while soldering and was freaked out for a few minutes until I looked again and realized I'd seated one of the Jones plugs off by one plug. Whew.

#26 8 years ago

Jones plugs are in the right spots.
If I take the spider off the 00-90 unit it works without issue.
On the outer ring, every second pin in this stretch is connected, and seems to be the reason the 100's reel coil locks on, because if I lift the spider off that outer contact it releases.
I drew the wire path in for clarity.image.jpgimage.jpg

#27 8 years ago

Is that match unit controlling an alternating relay for slingshot inserts or some other pf feature?. If it is, check the switches on that relay. Maybe one is not opening properly.

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