Left flippers not working on Elektra

(Topic ID: 226648)

Left flippers not working on Elektra


By bcg1976

71 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 28 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 63 days ago by bcg1976
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 71 days ago

Hi All,

Right flippers working, bottom playfield flippers working, left flippers not working on main playfield.

Power to coils, button works, new rottendog solenoid driver board, have reseated everything including repressing the wires on the connectors for the flippers at the driver board.

I'm still new to pinball repair so would appreciate any further tips.

Thanks,
Brad

#2 71 days ago

double check the solder joints on the coils. sometimes where the wires are doubled up one of the wires is not making good contact even though it appears to be connected. you might also check the 1N4004 diode that is across the coil.

#3 71 days ago

Check the diodes for the upper/lower PF. not the ones on the coils, but there's some secondary larger ones mounted to the PF and wired to the flipper coils.

#4 71 days ago

Have you checked the EOS contacts?...if those are not conducting/dirty/pitted the flipper will not flip.

#5 71 days ago

I guess end of stroke is open. Test for continuity with meter. EVEN IF TOUCHING, it could still be open. Crud,dirt,and deposits get stuck in EOS flipper switches.

Problem is going to be isolated to the upper PF coil/circuit. You know your boards and flipper switch is good because the lower works.

#6 69 days ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Check the diodes for the upper/lower PF. not the ones on the coils, but there's some secondary larger ones mounted to the PF and wired to the flipper coils.

Thanks all!

What are the values for these ones? There are two there and one may be the culprit now you've mentioned it. The numbers on the diode seem to have disappeared with age.

#7 69 days ago

the schematics say E-587-22 3A diode. Not sure beyond that. Did one test bad?

-1
#8 69 days ago
Quoted from bcg1976:

Thanks all!
What are the values for these ones? There are two there and one may be the culprit now you've mentioned it. The numbers on the diode seem to have disappeared with age.

The diode is for surge suppression ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_diode ) If it is absent or open, there is potentially damage upstream to the driving transistor or other circuitry. If it is shorted, then typically the flipper power fuse will blow, in most cases there is only one fuse for both flippers.

You have to lift one leg or remove the diode to accurately test. If I have to go through that, at that point I would replace the diode with a new one anyway. But I would still test the original to know if it was good or bad. There is nothing special about the pinball diodes across the flipper coils, You can replace these with 1N4004 general purpose diodes https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/1N4004

#9 69 days ago
Quoted from wayout440:

The diode is for surge suppression ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_diode ) If it is absent or open, there is potentially damage upstream to the driving transistor or other circuitry. If it is shorted, then typically the flipper power fuse will blow, in most cases there is only one fuse for both flippers.
You have to lift one leg or remove the diode to accurately test. If I have to go through that, at that point I would replace the diode with a new one anyway. But I would still test the original to know if it was good or bad. There is nothing special about the pinball diodes across the flippers, You can replace these with 1N4004 general purpose diodes https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/1N4004

Not those diodes. The large ones that aren't on the coil. They're for directing the power properly to upper/lower playfield, not surge suppression.

-1
#10 69 days ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Not those diodes. The large ones that aren't on the coil. They're for directing the power properly to upper/lower playfield, not surge suppression.

You are looking at the parts list for the power module. Those 3A diodes are used to form a discrete bridge rectifier on the power module (CR5,6,7,8). Diodes are passive devices, they don't control anything for the playfield selection. Q5 on the SDB board enables the lower playfield flippers.

#11 69 days ago
Quoted from wayout440:

You are looking at the parts list for the power module. Those 3A diodes are used to form a discrete bridge rectifier on the power module (CR5,6,7,8). Q5 on the SDB board enables the lower playfield flippers.

No, I'm looking at the playfield.
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The flippers are controlled by the solenoid expander relay. Q5 isn't even used.

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Solenoid expanders require extra sets of diodes on the coils to prevent the current from running backwards through the other side. On regular mechs they use a coil with two diodes even though it's a single winding. On flippers they need a bigger third diode that they mount on the playfield.

Quoted from wayout440:

Diodes are passive devices, they don't control anything for the playfield selection.

I didn't say they control things, I said they direct things. Like current. That's the whole point of a diode.

#12 69 days ago

I was mistaken, because of my eyesight. Q15 not Q5.

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#13 69 days ago
Quoted from wayout440:

I was mistaken, because of my eyesight. Q15 not Q5.
[quoted image]

Q15 controls the flipper enable relay which enables/disables all the flippers, not just one playfield.

#14 69 days ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Q15 controls the flipper enable relay which enables/disables all the flippers, not just one playfield.

Yes agreed.

#15 68 days ago

Wondering if the OP checked those diodes then. They seem to be a bit hefty to fail. It's been a long time since I owned Elektra.

#16 65 days ago

Sorry for the slow reply.

Elektra and I have been in different states.

Well I clipped off and tested those diodes. Joy of joys, one was completely non conductive in both polarities and the other was conductive in both. Wonderful, replaced them and expected left flipper action. Still not working!

Have included pictures of the resoldered diodes in case I've still got the polarity wrong along with one of the flipper coils that refuses to work.

And pictures of dead diodes.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks for your help so far.

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#17 65 days ago

Looks like a bad EOS switch on that flipper.

#18 65 days ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Looks like a bad EOS switch on that flipper.

Multiple things wrong with the same symptom... As that diode fell apart in my hands...

So the first one is low voltage and the second is EOS?

My thinking was that the first one changed to low voltage and then the second was EOS. So they should both be normally open.

Or am I wrong?

#19 65 days ago
Quoted from bcg1976:

Multiple things wrong with the same symptom... As that diode fell apart in my hands...
So the first one is low voltage and the second is EOS?
My thinking was that the first one changed to low voltage and then the second was EOS. So they should both be normally open.
Or am I wrong?

Looking at the picture again, the first one should be closed so the cam can open it on the way through to then closing what I gather is the low voltage coil switch.

Am I getting warmer?

#20 65 days ago

The one closer to the coil should be NC, but it looks like the contacts are missing. The second should be NO and when it closes that'll engage the upper flipper.

#21 65 days ago
Quoted from zacaj:

but it looks like the contacts are missing.

I'd suggest replacing both...they look pretty rough.

#22 64 days ago

Pretty obvious now.

Two pics of the left flippers with buggered switches.

One pic of the right that look serviceable.

I feel less bad at the obvious problem given those diodes were both stuffed too

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#23 64 days ago

Can you buy the whole switch assembly in one go or do you have to make it up out of NC and NO switches?

#24 64 days ago
Quoted from bcg1976:

Can you buy the whole switch assembly in one go or do you have to make it up out of NC and NO switches?

Depends where you buy from, but usually not

#25 64 days ago

You cannot use ordinary diodes for the flipper series diodes. Those special diodes in series are there to prevent cross wiring when the lower playfield is in use. They need to handle high current. A normal 1n4004 will fry in an instant when flipper current is put through them.

#26 63 days ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

You cannot use ordinary diodes for the flipper series diodes. Those special diodes in series are there to prevent cross wiring when the lower playfield is in use. They need to handle high current. A normal 1n4004 will fry in an instant when flipper current is put through them.

Ok, thanks. What sort of current should it be rated at?

#27 63 days ago
Quoted from bcg1976:

Ok, thanks. What sort of current should it be rated at?

3A

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#28 63 days ago
Quoted from wayout440:

3A
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Thanks for everyone's help.

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