(Topic ID: 24931)

Left flipper on Taxi has voltage but will not fire......at all!

By Pafasa

11 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 25 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Kneissl
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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  • Taxi Williams, 1988

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#1 11 years ago

Playing a game and left flipper quit. Cleaned flipper switch and flipper worked for one more flip then quit again. Power (70VDC) is present at all three lugs. Coil and Coil diodes are good. Even swapped flipper coils. Problem stays on left side. Cleaned EOS switch with no change. Continuity is good through EOS.

Here's the (will not fire.....at all) strange part. Even though power is present at the coil lugs, I can't even get the coil to fire by shorting the center lug to ground. Right flipper fires using this test but left flipper won't.

Here's what we know. Coil is good. Coil diodes are good. 2A fuse at f6 is good(obviously since there is voltage present). Voltage at coil lugs is good. EOS is good. Have not tested relay K1 or any of its controlling logic yet. Since that relay turns on ground for both flippers and the right one works......Possible that one side is not connected to ground, but I don't understand why that would matter when directly shorting center coil lug to ground.

Any ideas?

#2 11 years ago

Is there mechanical binding?

#3 11 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Is there mechanical binding?

The flipper mechanically moves freely if that is what you mean.

#4 11 years ago

Really hoping someone out there has some input.

#5 11 years ago

Are you grounding the center lug to the same spot with each flipper? Thinking there may be a chance you're not actually getting a good link to ground on the test. If the coil is good, voltage is present, no mechanical issue I can't figure why manually grounding it wouldn't fire the coil. Is the plunger aligned properly (similar to the working right side flipper's)?

#6 11 years ago

bad transistor?

#7 11 years ago
Quoted from DrJoe:

Are you grounding the center lug to the same spot with each flipper? Thinking there may be a chance you're not actually getting a good link to ground on the test. If the coil is good, voltage is present, no mechanical issue I can't figure why manually grounding it wouldn't fire the coil. Is the plunger aligned properly (similar to the working right side flipper's)?

Yes, grounding to exact same point. One clip on ground and other end on center lug. Works on right, does not work on left. Swapped solenoid coils but symptoms stay the same. Meter from each lug to ground and get 70VDC on all three lugs of each flipper.

Quoted from Kneissl:

bad transistor?

What transistor? I can't find one on the machine or the schematics. From what I can tell, the flipper switch completes a path to ground. THe only transistor I can find in the flipper system is the one that turns on the K1 relay on the cpu which enables ground for the flippers.

Baffling!!

#8 11 years ago

My guess....

You're checking voltage to ground at the coil lug...but that does not guarantee that the coil winding itself is getting power. It also doesn't guarantee that the ground point on the coil lug is getting to the coil. What I'm saying is I've seen this often, the small coil copper wire is broke either at the voltage lug, middle lug or ground lug. Inspect them. Check the ohms of the coil (lift the diode and open the EOS when you are doing this).

#9 11 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

My guess....
You're checking voltage to ground at the coil lug...but that does not guarantee that the coil winding itself is getting power. It also doesn't guarantee that the ground point on the coil lug is getting to the coil. What I'm saying is I've seen this often, the small coil copper wire is broke either at the voltage lug, middle lug or ground lug. Inspect them. Check the ohms of the coil (lift the diode and open the EOS when you are doing this).

Eliminated the coil as the problem by taking it out of circuit and testing both high and low power coils. Clipped coil diodes and tested them too. All looked good, but problem stayed after putting coil back in circuit. Then Swapped right flipper coil over to left flipper assy. (right flipper worked just fine) Problem still stays on left side. Put original (left) tested coil on right flipper assy. It works fine there.

Could this have something to do with the EOS capacitor? If it is shorted???

#10 11 years ago

The confusing part, working coil, working diodes, no binding, voltage present, cannot manually fire. What is left? Got me

#11 11 years ago
Quoted from ovfdfireman:

The confusing part, working coil, working diodes, no binding, voltage present, cannot manually fire. What is left? Got me

I don't understand it, but could it be the capacitor in the EOS system? The game will work without the capacitor. I guess it couldn't hurt at this point to remove it just to see...

#12 11 years ago

Try reseating the solenoid volt/ground connectors.

This just fixed my bk. same issue. Power at coil, but couldn't ground it. Reseating did it.

#13 11 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Try reseating the solenoid volt/ground connectors.
This just fixed my bk. same issue. Power at coil, but couldn't ground it. Reseating did it.

Awesome! What connectors do you mean?

#14 11 years ago

You need to check manual to see what connectors involve flipper power on the CPU, interconnect and other boards.

I would reseat: 1p19 on CPU. But check schematics for connectors on all boards dealing with that left flipper.

#15 11 years ago

Great! Thanks Blackbeard. That is something I have not tried yet. I know what you mean now. While I am there, I will check the K1 relay. I will post again after tasting this.

#16 11 years ago

Looks like we are on to something! Reseating 119 on CPU resulted in two balls of functional flipper. Then it died again. Time to dig deeper, but it seems likely that the problem is around that connector somewhere! Thanks Blackbeard!

#17 11 years ago

Sounds like that male header needs to be replaced on the CPU. Probably cracked solder joints.

I would do this: start a game. Then try wiggling that connector a bit all while trying to activate the flipper. If it fires while jiggling and pressing the flipper button, I'd say it's the solder joint on the CPU.

Keep posting what you try.

#18 11 years ago

Reflowed the solder joints on that connector. Still no flipper. Going after the connector itself next. Gotta get my punch-down tool and if that doesn't work, a new female connector.

#19 11 years ago

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. The CPU only provides ground to the flipper circuit. You can't get the flipper to engage by manually grounding the flipper, so it's a power side issue, not a ground side issue.

This is going to be a power issue from the power supply, Aux Power Driver, interconnect, or wiring anywhere in there to the flipper coil. Reseat the power supply connectors and see if things improve, then on to APD, and interconnect.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

#20 11 years ago

I should've mentioned that when I had this same issue with my BK it was the power supply side of things connector wise that I reseated to correct the issue.

#21 11 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. The CPU only provides ground to the flipper circuit. You can't get the flipper to engage by manually grounding the flipper, so it's a power side issue, not a ground side issue.
This is going to be a power issue from the power supply, Aux Power Driver, interconnect, or wiring anywhere in there to the flipper coil. Reseat the power supply connectors and see if things improve, then on to APD, and interconnect.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

I agree that it seems more likely to be a power side issue, but I have power at the coil. I have reseated the SDB connectors. Still worth checking again though... Thanks for another perspective.

#22 11 years ago

Found it! Wasn't connectors on the CPU board or any other board for that matter. We fell victim to a poor prior repair. Sometime between 1988 and now, a connector apparently needed to be replaced going to the interconnect board. The repair (hack) was done by cutting out the old connector and putting in a "new" one with cap style crimp connectors. Found it by tracing the power path and found that the crimp was not good. Re-crimped that wire and the rest of them too and now Taxi flips again!!!

Thanks everyone for your input. I learned a lot about this machine in the process. Hope I can contribute in the future!

#23 11 years ago

awesome! always great to hear a repair finished.

9 years later
#24 2 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

Found it! Wasn't connectors on the CPU board or any other board for that matter. We fell victim to a poor prior repair. Sometime between 1988 and now, a connector apparently needed to be replaced going to the interconnect board. The repair (hack) was done by cutting out the old connector and putting in a "new" one with cap style crimp connectors. Found it by tracing the power path and found that the crimp was not good. Re-crimped that wire and the rest of them too and now Taxi flips again!!!
Thanks everyone for your input. I learned a lot about this machine in the process. Hope I can contribute in the future!

I know it's a very long time ago... but it would be helpful to know "which" connector you had issues with. I'm having this exact problem with Elvira and the Party Monsters.

1 month later
#25 2 years ago

Schematics on ipdb look a bit rough.. but appears like you want to look around J5 J8 & J10

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