I LIKE IT

I put em' in my Space Mission and they looked really good.

It seems wrong to me, but then I'm kind of an old curmudgeon. In my opinion the warm glow of incandescents can't be beat. I do like the idea of less heat and energy consumption but so far I haven't been a fan of the look. It's pretty subjective really and if you like 'em then go for it.
Alex

Not true on the all or nothing statement- IMO. I just finished a nice old Gottlieb from 1965- Flipper Pool. I happen to have a couple color-change Cointakers kicking around so put one under the center plastic, and behind a white space on the backglass (Previous High Score area). I think they look cool but I respect keeping these old games close to original. Since this 'mod' if you will, is so easy to remove, no harm in experimenting.

That Flipper Pool does look nice and I like your philosophy. I would definitely add one of the color changing ones behind the fountain on Magic City/Magic Town if I had one. Perfect mod for a game that was originally supposed to have backglass animation.
Alex

I have LED's behind the back glass in my Sure Shot. Everywhere except the score reels (too white).

I used a combination of warm white in all places and red (Cointaker) behind the "Sure Shot" on the BG. Makes the BG colors pop!

Funny you should mention that application Allex as that's exactly why I had a couple left here for Flipper Pool. I did a Magic City a couple years ago and put them behind the fountian. Loved the effect. I had read about the original design calling for a color change wheel (groovy hippie stuff?) like some large urban fountains have. I don't like to use them for the GI lighting in general as I like to see the old bulbs and the warm glow is more authentic.

NEVER< NEVER NEVER EVER, Why ruin a perfectly good machine, only a fool puts LED in EM's.
Leave them alone, NO NLED's
Brian

In my wedgehead I have Cointaker warm white "retros" for the GI and warm white frosted for everything else and I think it looks great.

Don't go to the darkside ! you can never come back

some guys are real good at it
had only so so luck with LEDs in a EM- might try again thow

has anyone seen them (leds) in a warmer cast?

That's probably where I got the idea. I think you mentioned it in another LED thread.
Alex

I prefer the old school warm glow of EMs. No LEDs for me!

They are only lamps, not like spray paint or something.

I personally don't like LEDs in EMs. The warm glow of the incandescents really set the mood in the room, plus the "instant on/instant off" of the LEDs vs the slower "ramp on/ramp off" of the incandescents is really noticeable in the old games.

I recently visited the PHOF after Tim told me he was updating his EMs with LEDs, I could not play the LED lit games. They were too bright and too unevenly lit. Sure, he probably doesn't spend as much time as you guys would picking the perfect color temperature of white, but, even if he did, I think it would still seem unnatural to me.

HOWEVER, they are your machines, do what you feel is right.

Art.

anyone have any comparison fotos?

i would like to see some-

I have seen ems with all LEDs and jmo but I think they look really good ... Even better than in modern machines

ya sometimes led can be very directional too-

i used to be off the grid and did lots of leds in the some house legs and the cast was definatly cool, took some getting used to and wont say i ever really liked it but it could work maybe for some games or some portions of games.

i would like to frost some bulbs, and tweek some voltages on some bulbs, could really get some nice effects

We recently put all Retro LEDs in our Bally Bow and Arrow and I think it looks great. Super brights, or even frosted LEDs, for that matter, just don't really do it for me in the EM games. Even if its a frosted warm white... I'd recommend only retros in the EM games.

If you want to see photos of the Bow and Arrow, check it out here (click the little 'arrow right' button on the side of the square thumbnail pic): http://www.niftyled.com/Warm-White-Retro-p127.html

Hey Nifty,
Assume these are similar to Cointakers retros, but are yours 'non-ghosting'? as this *is* an issue with EM games. I have used both kinds and will never go back to standard bulbs that flash on with every voltage pulse in the game. There is always a bit of current leaking thru the system on these old EMs and the non-ghosting do a good job of blocking it. If yours are non-ghosting, then that's a real good price.

I have used them behind faded backglass or inserts to help bring back washed out colors..
I dislike "pink" lit specials...

Looks like an ad to me?

The retro series from CT looks really nice in EMs, just make sure you get the "warm" style white. They look nice in GI lighting, but can be kind of pricey. Considering the relatively low number of bulbs in the GI, it is worth the small investment to keep your plastics from warping due to heat.

I use warm frosted in my backglass, and the frosted ones diffuse the light well for that application, and can be had at PBL for really cheap. I still keep regular bulbs in my backbox for match, tilt, game over and number of balls because they spend a lot of time off and would require non-ghosting premium bulbs.

Under the PF, you will need to use non-ghosting LEDs and will really need to look and inventory almost every connector due to the fact some bulbs are mounted sideways and some are head on. This is the expensive part of the LED conversion, and seldom is worth the cost.

Personally, I just try to find the best mix of benefit to cost ratio for my EMs. My main concern is preservation of the backglass and plastics as best I can for as little investment possible. Under playfield and inserts is too tricky and cost prohibitive for me right now, but maybe down the road...

ya im glad they spoke up- but most sellers always say they sell things that look great-

I have 40 EM's, not a light bulb in one of them. LED's all the way for us.

These are not non-ghosting, however we are working on getting a retro non-ghosting LED too.

Sorry if it seems like an advertisement, we're excited about our products and are just trying to share our experiences with the community... I tried to link to just the image, but our site doesn't seem to work like that.

I purposely have a selection of EM, SS and DMD in my collection to show the evolution of pinball. I bought these machines before the advent of "mods" and LED's. so I have been gradually experimenting. LED's in DMD's-YES--LED's in SS-Selectively-LED's in EM's -jury is out

If you do it right, they look totally bad ass. Now I'm not worried about plastics or burned out bulbs. Not what I consider a mod. To me a mod means something was altered. We're talking about light bulbs here, I pull them all when I sell a game anyway. Too expensive to haggle over. Hell, I even have LED's in my gun games and my bowlers.

005.JPG 023.JPG 017.JPG

Look at this Yukon Special. It's out of sight! I know people don't like the LED's in EM's, but I don't care. You can make a game so unique looking without changing anything. Even the LED haters that come to my arcade like the look of the games. They don't like to admit it, but they do
Only problem is get ready to drop a hundred bucks per game.

013.JPG

bulbs, LED's, or both?

can ya tell?

525668_2954781193532_1580928816_n.jpg

VERY well done examples guys.

I also plan on doing more with LEDs on my EMs at some point, but need to amass a few extras first to be able to play around with what I like. I wound up taking a loss on a large order I placed with PBL, as many of the LEDs just didn't seem to have any "pop" to them and they seem dim compared to regular bulbs. It takes time to experiment with the different LEDs and have a selection to really play with... One thing I did learn, there is no cheaping out on buying LEDs... lol

LED's in the inserts and bulbs in the GI?

If you want it to look bright and nice, you have to buy good LED's. Those cheap ebay ones are too dim. There are also a lot that are blinding bright, you don't want them to be uncomfortable to play. But when you do it right there's really something to it. And if you don't like it you can change it all back in 20 minutes, it's not like you're drilling holes in the playfield or anything.

ALL LED's... It CAN look very natural if ya do it right..

But the inserts looked too white and I could tell they were LED and not natural. I thought the ones in the kicker area were a little blinding but given the picture you posted, I gave it the benifit of doubt (thus the question mark at the end of my sentence). All the other GI were behind something which kind of obscures the light a bit. LED's are getting better at matching incandescent but they still have a way to go. It would have been better to compare pictures of the same game in the same natural lighting, one with all LED's, the other with bulbs. That's the only way to do a real comparison. Your game gave nothing to compare and you used words to make a doubt. If you had asked if it was LED or incandescent, the answer was obvious.

Don't get me wrong, your game looks nice but it's not the same look as incandescent yet.

wasn't trying to pull a "gotcha" by any stretch.. nor was it the intention of my post.. FWIW...

+1 LED in EM can be amazing. I did a complete restore and LED retrofit with coin taker LED in a Gottlieb Super Spin. Photos are in my thread with that machine in the title if you curious. I would never go back. WAY WAY WAY cool. That said, I really think its very dependent on the machine. For my tastes many many many of the EM's from the 70's look like they are from the 60's or even 50's and IMHO the addition of LED to these might look like lipstick on a chicken... kinda pointless. But... thats why I have a Super Spin- So... my final opinion is don't listen to anyone, look at your game, check out photos posted and do what you like. Its not like its going to damage anything and it will ELIMINATE heat cracking in the plastics and stress on the painted backglass so many + there... but esthetics are very personal. If you eventually sell the machine to someone who doesn't like the LEDs they can buy a 120 regular old school bulbs and swap it in about an hour and sell the LED's to someone else for more than they paid to get the old school bulbs.

I say "why not?" You can always keep the old bulbs in the coin drawer. Plus it will prevent any further heat damage to prized components like the backglass.

All's good, with out your ad, how would we know what out there.

lol, just shopped out my magic town yesterday. previous owner put some painted bulbs behind the fountain.
I have a bunch of CT color changers and swapped them out. looks really good.
pics tonight, as I plan on selling this one.
really funny this was brought up.
For the purists, I cleaned and replaced some of the 455 flashers in their original location behind " Magic Town on the back glass.

Yup, 455's behind the title is a good thing and the fountain really works with the color changers.

As an owner of games spanning the "eras", I join the few here who "prefer" the incandescents in the older games - it is the way Iremember them looking when I was a kid so this is a bit of a "nostalgic" preference.

Having said that, those of you who posted photos above - thanks for sharing - your games look great.

few pics

image.jpg image.jpg

After seeing some of the LED pics I'm still not convinced. They are interesting but I'm in agreement with PennSkier and the other purists. The warmth of the original incandescents can't be beat. With that said that Magic City/Magic Town color changing LED is really cool. It's a cheap way to replicate what was to be designed originally. So far it's the one exception for me.

With all this new LED technology changing and seemingly improving it will be interesting to see where we will end up. Maybe they will get so good at recreating the look that you won't be able to tell the difference eventually. My fear is next people will start adding mirror blades and powder coating the rails on their Ems. Maybe someday 10 years from now at show everyone will gasp at the one old EM running original bulbs with stainless rails and original paint. It will be like a time capsule from a forgotten time.
Alex

I agree AlexF. There are a very few exceptions that cold LEDs can accentuate the art/design.

I don't have anything against an LED, I just don't think the cold color looks right. When they finally make them that replicate the incandescent warmth, I'll be first in line buying them.

the incandescent is a harsher light.. LED's seem to spread/dissipate light more.
many of the shadows cast from playfield post and whatnot are absent with LED..
the incandescent definitely have a dramatic flair that the LED's do not capture..

still LED's are a great option for fades inserts..

I've done the warm whites that look like normal bulbs in a good bit of my Totem. (Gottlieb, '79) Personally, I felt like they turned out really well. I also experimented with a couple colored bulbs under some playfield inlays, and thought they nicely accented some faded plastics.

I know it's not an EM, but as far as playfield and backglass looks go, it's not far removed from later EM games (heck, some of the System 1 games just before Totem were done as both a SS and EM)