(Topic ID: 185779)

LED's in EM?

By mrbanjo

6 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 20 posts
  • 18 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by NicoVolta
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 6 years ago

Have a Captain Fantastic that I want to try some LEDS's in backglass
anyone have a CF with LED's they can post a pic of?
What would make it pop? Cool whites/warm whites etc?

#2 6 years ago

I use Comet 2SMD frosted warm whites for GI generally. Inserts I keep either incandescent or 2SMD non-ghosting clear warm whites.

This way it'll still pop from the brightness but still look somewhat natural.

#3 6 years ago

I am thinking of ordering some led as well bit not sure if I should go cool white, white, or warm white. I've seen some pictures but they always look different.

#4 6 years ago

Go with the single SMD Sunlight clear dome bulbs from Comet in the GI. They look like incandescent bulbs. Look great in my WMS Grand Prix.
The frosted have a white dome & don't look natural at all.

#5 6 years ago

I have a number of EM games and LED in all plus two Early SS games which are basically an EM in terms of lighting with a few controlled lamps. I can tell you two truths

Color match under inserts.
Use nothing hotter than sunlight From comet in terms of white light color temperature

The rest is experience and personal choice. So is what I just said but really- an EM looks like crap when illuminated by super bright white high color temp bulbs for GI. Look at a std bulb some day. Look at the filament. It's glowing hot but its really yellow red. It's not paper white. EM Colors look washed out and yech under high color temp lighting.

I read all these type of recommendations or at least vaguely similar thoughts on pinside- and thought I knew better and put in this bright bulb and that super white bulb and another fancy bulb over there because my game was "unique" and blah blah blah. I was an idiot. I have now replaced every bulb in my first EM three times going dimmer and yellower every time and adding to color match everything everywhere- it keeps looking better and better.

To get it right takes money and time. You will never ever be satisfied with your first order. IMHO Use Comet Pinball- they win the selection and innovation game. Hands down. Never sell or throw any bulb away. You can use them to test ideas on your next game.

I would recommend using frosted bulbs on GI and avoid retro style. You just limit your choices and you can't what the bulb looks like when they are on anyhow.

Keep it dim. LEDs are bright as shit and a single point source. Get bulbs that have a decent lens that distributes the light if possible- frosted or faceted helps a lot but faceted looks a little disco ball.

Color match behind the back glass if there is a clear dominant color over a bulb. Don't color match behind the back glass near a spot with flesh tones close bye- blue flesh looks stupid, so does red and yellow and green. Color matching can take a faded red piece of art and make it look amazing.

#6 6 years ago

Couldnt have said it better!

In an EM Backglass, Such as Captain Fantastic, Start with Every Socket filled with Frosted Sunlight or Warm.

Then test out a few brighter bulbs in any darker Art section, or areas you wish to bring forward, using depth of field lighting,
Such as Brighter or Blinking bulbs in Explosions or focal points.

In screened glass, rarely do colored bulbs, IMO, help a game...usually very subtle and tasteful.
Let the Art on the glass glow as designed.

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from rufessor:

...I have now replaced every bulb in my first EM three times going dimmer and yellower every time and adding to color match everything everywhere- it keeps looking better and better.

Sounds like you're on the right path!

Now just keep going and put those nice incandesent bulbs back in where they belong and you'll be all set!

#9 6 years ago

Every time you put LEDs in an EM, God kills a kitten.

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#10 6 years ago
Quoted from SirScott:

Every time you put LEDs in an EM, God kills a kitten.

Unless you are an operator. They get special dead kitten dispensation because their games are on all day.

#11 6 years ago

Fire up the hatchet then. Led for e/m's all the way

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from GPS:

Fire up the hatchet then. Led for e/m's all the way

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

In screened glass, rarely do colored bulbs, IMO, help a game...usually very subtle and tasteful.
Let the Art on the glass glow as designed.

. If only the rest of the world lived by this rule!!!!

#14 6 years ago

LEDs in EMs wash out artwork, as they were not designed for this lighting.
It can also blind players from seeing the playfield while playing, unless PDI, or equivalent glass is used.
Very natural light white LEDs can be used for backglasses to reduce heat output and prevent backglass delamination, if games are left on often.
There are not significant operators that use EMs for routes now (outside of pinball museums) so other benefits are minimal.

If games are later resold to collectors, values can decrease with games using LEDs.
Especially, if permanent light modifications are conducted including drilling new light socket holes, which seems to be increasing.
They do not want them.

If you want to see a comparison, here is an example.
My 4MBC is in middle, "purist" form, no LEDs, standard #47s for GI.
GI are running at proper regulated voltage, no brightness increase.
Notice severe reflections in darkened rooms for the other two games, including reflecting back onto my own game.

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#15 6 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

There are not significant operators that use EMs for routes now (outside of pinball museums) so other benefits are minimal.

It's funny that I just spent all day at the Silverball Museum in NJ. They use LEDs extensively in their EMs, and I hate them... but I completely understand. In a place like that with the games on all day, the heat damage can be significant. And it didn't stop me from playing El Dorado all day. Preservation is worth the annoying LEDs.

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

LEDs in EMs wash out artwork, as they were not designed for this lighting.
It can also blind players from seeing the playfield while playing, unless PDI, or equivalent glass is used.
Very natural light white LEDs can be used for backglasses to reduce heat output and prevent backglass delamination, if games are left on often.
There are not significant operators that use EMs for routes now (outside of pinball museums) so other benefits are minimal.
If games are later resold to collectors, values can decrease with games using LEDs.
Especially, if permanent light modifications are conducted including drilling new light socket holes, which seems to be increasing.
They do not want them.
If you want to see a comparison, here is an example.
My 4MBC is in middle, "purist" form, no LEDs, standard #47s for GI.
GI are running at proper regulated voltage, no brightness increase.
Notice severe reflections in darkened rooms for the other two games.

The one in the middle looks warm, inviting. But its not right to see 3 of these machines side by side when I want one.
So there.

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

LEDs in EMs wash out artwork, as they were not designed for this lighting.
It can also blind players from seeing the playfield while playing, unless PDI, or equivalent glass is used.
Very natural light white LEDs can be used for backglasses to reduce heat output and prevent backglass delamination, if games are left on often.
There are not significant operators that use EMs for routes now (outside of pinball museums) so other benefits are minimal.
If games are later resold to collectors, values can decrease with games using LEDs.
Especially, if permanent light modifications are conducted including drilling new light socket holes, which seems to be increasing.
They do not want them.
If you want to see a comparison, here is an example.
My 4MBC is in middle, "purist" form, no LEDs, standard #47s for GI.
GI are running at proper regulated voltage, no brightness increase.
Notice severe reflections in darkened rooms for the other two games.

For once I totally agree with you..

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

LEDs in EMs wash out artwork, as they were not designed for this lighting.

The most common issue with LED implementation is exactly that... choosing the wrong brightness bulbs. Most people replace incandescents with LEDs that are 2-3x brighter which can definitely wash things out. The 1-LED or mini-SMD bulbs are the same brightness as incandescent, whereas everything else is much brighter.

#19 6 years ago

Unless your looking to save money on your electric bill, I'd leave them out. Bought 20 LEDs a week ago and didn't like them. Made the backglass look horrible and changed the color of the inserts when I tried them under the playfield. I saw a Bank A Ball which was probably 100% LEDs and felt sorry for it.

#20 6 years ago

It's a controversial topic so I'll just shaddup and leave this here and say the recipe has been rather popular thus far on the tour... https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stealth-led-a-recommended-recipe-for-ems

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