Odessa, MO
Thanks for sharing. I enjoy reading and learning from other people's creative ideas.
(Topic ID: 214241)
This was interesting to read, as I am not versed in everything electrical.
The bulk china buy is something that interests me.
Anyone have any names of suppliers they could pm me. I assume most companies use the sites AB and BG?
I'd like to order in bulk for my 4 machines and my buddies 3 cabs. Plus red insert for coin door for the cades.
Thanks for posting...I have to laugh at the guys giving you shit for "wasting time", those guys are sitting at a computer doing nothing productive and criticizing you for actually doing something
Is it cost effective: no
Does that matter: no
If you enjoy it or find it theraputic than by all means keep it up
Quoted from cosmokramer:Thanks for posting...I have to laugh at the guys giving you shit for "wasting time", those guys are sitting at a computer doing nothing productive and criticizing you for actually doing something
Is it cost effective: no
Does that matter: no
If you enjoy it or find it theraputic than by all means keep it up
Thanks for the encouragement. I was beginning to think i'd never want to post another "how to" message or video because of the replies about it being a waste of (their) time, or comments about where I probably live, or about the result being a "hack" job on a pinball machine. The complimentary responses make this all worth while! Thank you and everyone who responded with understanding about the intent of my original posting.
Quoted from pezpunk:what third world country do you live in that this would be worth your time?
Quoted from pezpunk:i didn't insult you. i merely questioned the practical utility of making one's own LEDs.
I'm enjoying watching Pez come down form the Ivory tower these days. 
Quoted from pezpunk:i didn't insult you. i merely questioned the practical utility of making one's own LEDs.
Your comments sound pretty damn insulting to me!!
Quoted from chuckwurt:Got some before and afters of a game done with these?
As requested, here are some pics. I am waiting for the WARM WHITE LED's (actually they are the smaller SMD's). I ordered 100 for only $4 and will give them a try instead of the free BRIGHT WHITE ones you see. Not sure which ones I will like better, so it time for testing and evaluation.
Quoted from MrBally:No link. Tim is quite the recluse. Simply go to the Pinball Hall of Fame and find a machine open to observe it. I was watching him install this set up on machines I'm Different visits to both the original Hall and the current one.
I remember seeing video of it so I guess it's somewhere on youtube or it was on Clays site maybe ?
Or could it have been on one of the last TOP tapes ?
Anyway it's indeed how pinball leds started 10 years ago - back in 2006 I posted this: http://www.flippers.be/lotrled.html
and not much later people started the sell pre-assembled mods and nicely assembled leds..
Reminds me of the first ones I did in the 70s!
Skycraft was downtown, and I took those LEDs from surplus military boards......
Full circle, I enjoy your perseverance, OP!
Quoted from wxforecaster:Let's safely assume you value your time at zero dollars per hour (which is fine, you enjoy this as a hobby in retirement). The problem here is that you are inferring a 30
ratio of the cost of commercial bulbs to one of yours. So if your bulbs cost 5 cents, as you say, a similar commercial bulb is $1.50. That's no where remotely near true. In fact, having watched your video using straight LEDs out of a harbor freight lamp, the parts you are using are comparable to 1 LED bulbs that are available at COMET, for example, at $29 per 100, or roughly a 6
I get it, and I'm not trying to dissuade you, but I LED games for customers all the time. The days of $200 or even $150 LED jobs are over (unless someone is overpaying for a premade "kit"). Even using the preferred SMDs over LEDs, I'm spending around $80 on an entire game (including backbox and GI), and if I need to use non-ghosting lamps in the inserts on certain titles, I'm barely over $100 in pure bulb costs.
I just purchased 100 SMD warm white LEDs for $1.20 including shipping. That's about 1 cent each. Bought 100 resistors for $0.99. These will be much smaller than the previous bulbs I made, will look similar to the "standard" 1 SMD LED found online for $0.89 each (cheapest I fount). Again, this isn't for everyone, and I can understand why some people would rather just go out and buy bulbs, but at my cost, I will LED my whole game saving about $130.
Quoted from JethroP:$0.89 each (cheapest I fount)
So it has been pointed out you can buy the single chip SMD bulbs already assembled for $0.59 when purchased in quantities of 100. My cost is $0.02. When I get done updating my 5 games with LED I will have saved about $370 by assembling myself. Some people buy store bought apple pie (because they can't cook or don't want to), some people make their own (maybe because they enjoy cooking). I enjoy fabricating and learning new things....like how to link a YT video into this forum for example. Some people will never assemble their own LED bulb, whether they have no desire, or don't have the tools and skill. I don't judge...just sharing my ideas and knowledge.
Quoted from JethroP:So it has been pointed out you can buy the single chip SMD bulbs already assembled for $0.59 when purchased in quantities of 100. My cost is $0.02. When I get done updating my 5 games with LED I will have saved about $370 by assembling myself. Some people buy store bought apple pie (because they can't cook or don't want to), some people make their own (maybe because they enjoy cooking). I enjoy fabricating and learning new things....like how to link a YT video into this forum for example. Some people will never assemble their own LED bulb, whether they have no desire, or don't have the tools and skill. I don't judge...just sharing my ideas and knowledge.
I think it's great that you're doing this and sharing with the community here.
The problem, if you want to call it that, is that the math you are using to show your savings was off by 30 or 50%. I am not the first person to point this out in this thread. Also note that it took me less than a minute to find that $.59 rate. I'm sure better deals are out there, though the quality of the Comet product is top notch.
Im quite sure my math is correct. Comet bulbs cost $0.89 unless you want to buy 100, then you will get a price break to $0.59.
Assume $0.59 to buy.
My bulbs $0.02 to make.
Making (buying) 650 bulbs.
Savings= ($0.59-$0.02) x 650 = $370.50
I know I'm getting old, but I think I've figured out the savings correctly. It's nice that you have pointed out to the unknowing that bulbs can be purchased for $0.59. But I know people who have paid more than $1.50 for the same spec bulb (maybe different manufacturer). I hadn't even heard of Comet until a week ago. I'm a newbie. It's nice to know, but doesn't make me want to go out and spend about $370 when I can get the same results for about $6 by doing it myself. I'm sure Comet is good, but if I put Comets and mine in the same game, I'm convinced you would not be able to tell mine from theirs without looking under the playfield.
Quoted from chuckwurt:How long did it take to make 650?
I didn't make them all yet. When I get done with my 5 games, that's about how many I will have made.
Quoted from wayout440:What if you didn't have the old bulbs? How much would it cost then?
I think you're asking about just soldering the LED directly to the game wiring without using the old bulb base? Same cost, less time. That is an easier alternative for sure, just didn't want to start soldering to all my bulb socket wiring.
Quoted from JethroP:I think you're asking about just soldering the LED directly to the game wiring without using the old bulb base? Same cost, less time. That is an easier alternative for sure, just didn't want to start soldering to all my bulb socket wiring.
Ok...That's fine if it is your game and you expect to keep it forever. From a practical standpoint, or for those buying, selling, or trading games this is impractical. The same could be said of connector hacks, soldering wires direct to the boards instead of installing proper connectors. Will the game work? Sure. Does it make it more difficult to change things or troubleshoot in the future. Probably. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. You can hack anything you want. Even put bungee cords in place of slingshot rubbers. Knock yourself out, its your game. Just know it is no major feat of engineering to solder some LEDs and resistors to unwanted bulb bases. Not only is it a last resort, very few will even do it as a last resort.
Quoted from wayout440:Ok...That's fine if it is your game and you expect to keep it forever. From a practical standpoint, or for those buying, selling, or trading games this is impractical.
Which some might say aboot all LEDs not just home made ones.
Hell at least he wouldn't act like adding LEDs added hundreds to his selling price 
Quoted from wayout440:Ok...That's fine if it is your game and you expect to keep it forever. From a practical standpoint, or for those buying, selling, or trading games this is impractical. The same could be said of connector hacks, soldering wires direct to the boards instead of installing proper connectors. Will the game work? Sure. Does it make it more difficult to change things or troubleshoot in the future. Probably. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. You can hack anything you want. Even put bungee cords in place of slingshot rubbers. Knock yourself out, its your game. Just know it is no major feat of engineering to solder some LEDs and resistors to unwanted bulb bases. Not only is it a last resort, very few will even do it as a last resort.
A last resort? A hack? Not sure what that's about. When I got my games, every one of them were over fused. Some had wires soldered around connectors to the boards, wires jumped under the playfields, all the things you mention and more. They even had burned out bulbs? Imagine that! Burned out bulbs. I've fixed all the "hacks." I replaced all the burned out bulbs, even the good #44's I replaced with #47 bulbs because I thought that would be better. I guess that was a hack because the game original equipment (OE) were #44 bulbs, not #47's. I got tired of replacing incandescent bulbs that had horrible mortality rates, so decided to go LED. To the purist, LED's in an early SS is a hack! Guilty of another hack? But you have convinced me that when I do sell my game, I will buy 13 boxes of #44 bulbs and replace all the LED's I assembled. That way, the buyer will get OE parts and I will have my LED's to install in another game down the road. Fair enough? Best part is, I can relamp an entire game with #44 bulbs for about $13. That's $0.10 each. So it's a win-win! Everybody's happy!
Today received hundreds of old #44 and #47 bulbs from PECOS for use in my repurposing project! Amazing, generous guy! THANKS A MILLION, PECOS!! This site has some truly amazing people on it... PECOS is one of them!
Just wanted to say I think this is amazing.
I home brewed a lot of beer a few years ago. I wish I had a nickle for every extended family member or friend who questioned both my time spent and the economics behind it. "So you spent $50 bucks to brew a batch of beer?! I can get a six pack of **insert cheap deer piss doubling as beer here**." That isn't the point. It is about enjoying the process. Anyone who is patrolling these forums on a regular basis has no right to question anyones use of free time, myself included.
Don't let the bastards grind you down.
Who cares if it does or doesn't save you a nickel. If you like doing it and want to do it and have the time to do it, and like the look, then frickin do it. This whole hobby is a waste of time and to quote the great philosopher Jeff Spicolli, "I'm so wasted."
I wouldn't be successful in this project, I'd be half as fast and half of those probably wouldn't work and would end in complete frustration.
Keep on keeping on and do you with or without encouragement.
Maybe do some color ones to piss off the rainbow puke club too.
I, for one, dig it!
Quoted from JethroP:the result being a "hack" job on a pinball machine
Regardless of anything else, it's absolutely a "hack" job, in that it's not a refined and tidy solution, and that reasonable ones already exist. I won't back up people telling you it's a waste of YOUR time, or to not post about it...but please don't make it out to be something it's not. It's not:
A reasonable use of most people's time.
Something that anyone wants to find in a newly purchased game, unless it's a 100 buck pickup off craigslist, or told up front that the price has accounted for replacing all of them, then we likely don't care.
Something I'd trust in my house (or any commercial location) to not damage my machine or NOT start a fire. Your personal accreditation aside, if I bought a game and saw these things all over the inside, you can bet I'd be replacing them ASAP.
What it is:
Something that you enjoy doing to save some money. I built my own power splitter harnesses to save some bucks, and because I wanted to see how difficult it would be to make something I found satisfactory, so I get that.
Totally bats--t. 
A pretty good demonstration that you have more patience than 99% of people on here. 
Quoted from JethroP:That way, the buyer will get OE parts and I will have my LED's to install in another game down the road. Fair enough?
Yep.
Anyone who is an engineer or who has worked around them understands this. It doesn't matter if you can buy (insert object here) for less. It's more fun making things from scrap parts! Been there, done that!
Heck, I've got a friend who built a 55 Dodge pickup from parts he found all over the place. He painted the entire truck with 88 cent cans of metallic blue paint from K-Mart. That was almost 30 years ago and he still tows his boat with that thing (and the paint job still looks great). I'll have to post a pic if I can find one...
The problem is this style of led has shown to not have the lifespan and starts getting dimmer compared to the smd LEDs that are popular now. These are used in the low end comet bulbs and are known to not have the duty cycle over a few years
Quoted from TheLaw:Which some might say aboot all LEDs not just home made ones.
Hell at least he wouldn't act like adding LEDs added hundreds to his selling price
It's aboot time someone mentioned this.....
By request, and responding to earlier comments, I have assembled SMD LED's for about 5 cents each. They are warm white and perform like the original incandescents. I realize this isn't for everyone, but for those that have expressed some interest, hope you find this useful. I have also posted a 7 minute youtube video showing the assembly.
FullSizeRender-1 (resized).jpg
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3 weeks later
Quoted from HighVoltage:I am not a fan of these tiny Spike LEDs which make for some pretty dimly-lit inserts. I only needed a couple, so not worth paying $6 or $7 to ship.
Only solution was to join the "homemade" LEDs club myself too, after all.
Cool (white)! Did you make the little circuit boards too?
If you call the cutout plastic a circuit board, then yes, I made it too!
Actually all the required circuitry that is on that PCB is part of the LED strip, so no issue there.
Quoted from HighVoltage:If you call the cutout plastic a circuit board, then yes, I made it too!
Actually all the required circuitry that is on that PCB is part of the LED strip, so no issue there.
OIC. Nice! I am making GI lighting similar to that now for my STAR TREK. Using two SMD's for each #47 bulb. Also making them flexible so can position them nicely under the plastics. They are brighter (warm white) and cooler.
1 week later
Quoted from toyotaboy:Hank already beat yoo 2 dis ideaer... he gits 5 leds for a buckaroo
» YouTube video
no one ever said you were good at math, did they?
1 month later
What a cool thread! Pinside has a lot of creative, talented and smart members - I love it when they share on a thread like this.
Don't let the cranky whiners that are missing the point of your thread (on purpose) stop anyone from posting threads like this. They generally just like to hear themselves talk.
Don't even get me started on hobbies that don't always pay for themselves - hunting, fishing, woodworking, blacksmithing, making your own lumber, old car restorations, etc - people enjoy what they enjoy!
Hey Jethro,
Where did you buy those smds and resistors? I've found cheap ones on AliExpress, but I'm not comfortable sending them the documentation they want for verification.
Quoted from DropTarget:Hey Jethro,
Where did you buy those smds and resistors? I've found cheap ones on AliExpress, but I'm not comfortable sending them the documentation they want for verification.
I like to buy electronic components from Digikey, but you kind of need to know the specs to find what you're looking for.
https://www.digikey.com/products/en/optoelectronics/led-indication-discrete/105
THX
Which one's did you use? I ended up buying from China, but it's a 30-50 wait period, and I'm not sure that the specs are correct on the SMD's.
To some people's points here.......
I don't even like LED's in most pins, but I like messing around, and building things from scratch, so I'm going to experiment with this idea.
I mean, I didn't have to build my own snow maker, I could have waited for mother nature, but.............
cool! This could be very useful for making LEDs in colors that are not available in standard pinball socket form. or, you could take it a step further and add an ATtiny chip directly powered by a 5V socket that can give an LED programable behaviors completely independent from the rest of the machine.
Great comments in this thread guys.... you can always count on the internet to critique and police how other people spend there time... 
If I get around to trying the ATtiny idea I'll post the results here. I have a 'flickering candle' code that could be cool on my 'Swords of Fury' table. Maybe under Ogres Alley....
ATtiny info for anyone else interested:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9378
Quoted from scarybeard:cool! This could be very useful for making LEDs in colors that are not available in standard pinball socket form. or, you could take it a step further and add an ATtiny chip directly powered by a 5V socket that can give an LED programable behaviors completely independent from the rest of the machine.
You can also get these for 45 cents ea. with the programmable drivers built in.
https://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/ws2812b-5050-rgb-led/51979?utm_adgroup=Optoelectronics&slid=&gclid=CjwKCAjw9qfZBRA5EiwAiq0AbePN6RtLfcMxTj8EOiVsJHu7Tlnl5F3X0XFNkn8BCKNwAYP_-4KVThoC3ggQAvD_BwE
1655-00 (resized).jpgthese addressable leds are fun but need to be on a pcb or imbedded in something. 5v gnd and a data line doesn't go in to an old bulb base very easy. OR AT ALL Let alone rewiring(daisy chained) and programming . I'm using some in a arduino project that are chained together like xmas lights with the leads soldered and imbedded in a round kinda snap in base. I cut some lexan type plastic and drill a a couple holes and then they mount similar to current sterns. Makes the game totally custom. Being any color they are very cool. I want to say a string of 100 was about 9-11 bucks from ebay
I also do what the OP does when i need a flex type that I don't have enough of, or all I got have the wrong base.
IMG_0831 (resized).JPGI once soldered 1 warm white, 1 orange & 1 yellow smds onto a 906 red flasher making a cool flame flasher. I asked Comet if they would create other iterations of the fire blinking bulb in blue and other colors I think there working on that?
Quoted from RTR:What a cool thread! Pinside has a lot of creative, talented and smart members - I love it when they share on a thread like this.
Don't let the cranky whiners that are missing the point of your thread (on purpose) stop anyone from posting threads like this. They generally just like to hear themselves talk.
Don't even get me started on hobbies that don't always pay for themselves - hunting, fishing, woodworking, blacksmithing, making your own lumber, old car restorations, etc - people enjoy what they enjoy!
What he said.
Quoted from DropTarget:Hey Jethro,
Where did you buy those smds and resistors? I've found cheap ones on AliExpress, but I'm not comfortable sending them the documentation they want for verification.
Sorry for the delay in my response. I didn't realize there were new comments in this thread. I bought all my SMD's on eBay. Yeah, had to wait for the long delivery from china but it was just a few dollars for 100. The best I've found are the 5050 SMD in warm white. The color ones I bought were smaller than the 5050. I don't remember the size offhand. Some of the resistors were purchased locally at our electronics liquidator, the others on eBay. Prices were similar, about 2 cents each.
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