(Topic ID: 29684)

FS: LED OCD - Eliminate LED flicker/strobe/ghost - Control brightness


By herg

7 years ago



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  • 763 posts
  • 159 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by MustangPaul
  • Topic is favorited by 123 Pinsiders

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    There are 759 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 16.
    #301 6 years ago

    Lol, a thumbs down honestly? Next time remind me not to give advice.

    -2
    #302 6 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Lol, a thumbs down honestly? Next time remind me not to give advice.

    It's okay, I balanced it out for you.

    #303 6 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Lol, a thumbs down honestly? Next time remind me not to give advice.

    Next time try and make sure your advice is correct instead of just guessing?

    If they're compatible, then why would he sell and market it as two separate devices? That's stupid. Why would he have preorder signups for two different preorders if he could fulfill the needs of a big enough batch to make it worth his time to run them if they aren't different PCBs?

    #304 6 years ago

    This thread discusses LED OCD in general. The thing started with WPC. We are off topic.

    Back on topic, I'm pretty sure I'll be in for one of these once I find the money. One could easily spend the same $200 on premium LEDs , non-ghosting, etc. but you get much better effects using this board with cheap LEDs.

    #305 6 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    If he was making a batch of WPC boards...

    I'm in for several more of these for WPC (I forget how many), so jump in and recruit your friends so we can get them made.

    #306 6 years ago

    Yesterday, I requested a quote from the assembly house who builds my boards for both the Stern boards and cables. The "said" they could do the cables, but we'll see what they come back with. Everyone else I've approached about it has bailed out once they saw the specs. Either way, if they're building cables or if I am, I'd estimate mid to late January for a batch of the Stern kits to be completed.

    I can't remember where I saw it, but someone had an IDC termination tool that pressed an entire connector in one shot. It was a hydraulic (or maybe air) press, but I'm thinking of trying a manual one using a arbor press. In order to do this, I'll have to find someone to make a custom die. If anyone is willing to help with this, I would compensate appropriately.

    The pre-orders for WPC kits are close to the imaginary cutoff, but there's no way I can do these in parallel. I also really want to fit the GI kits in, so the WPC kits look like the earliest they could realistically be ready would be March.

    #307 6 years ago

    Once the GI kit comes out the LED future I hoped for will finally have arrived I'm waiting to do inserts and GI all at once, and there's no better reason to wait than knowing you're busy filling orders. Your product is a great contribution to the pinball community!

    #308 6 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    It has been really slow lately. I have set an artificial limit of 20 pre-orders before I pull the trigger on a batch, and yours put me at 13 Stern. I make them in batches of 50 to keep the cost down, and even with me building the cables myself, I have to sell about 35 to break even.

    If it helps you can put me in for 4 Stern kits, I need 2 and have 2 friends that need one each but I'll order them up for them.

    1 month later
    #309 6 years ago

    So, the Stern boards have arrived, most have been tested, and I've notified all the pre-order requests that they can order if they still want them. I plan to give the pre-order guys a few days, then open orders to anyone. If you want one but are not on the pre-order list, you can submit a request, and I'll get back to you ASAP... or just wait a few days, and I'll remove the pre-order restriction.

    http://ledocd.com/purchase.html

    I'm planning a run of Williams kits next. Unfortunately, my PCB manufacturer is going to be shut down for two weeks, so I won't even be able to place the order until then. I'm estimating early March for the Williams kits to be available.

    #310 6 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    I'll remove the pre-order restriction.

    Done. If you want one, just go to the website. Thanks.

    #311 6 years ago

    Received mine yesterday! Looking forward to installing it tomorrow.

    1 week later
    #312 5 years ago

    Maybe this has come up before but what sorts of compatibility or problems can one expect on Tron with Eli's ramp mod installed?

    #313 5 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    Maybe this has come up before but what sorts of compatibility or problems can one expect on Tron with Eli's ramp mod installed?

    I would hope none, since the ramp mod should've been designed to work with incandescent and LED... but that said sometimes there is wierd interactions between things so... yeah...interested in this as well.

    #314 5 years ago

    Herg the kit that came with my MM is missing the Z connector do I need a z connector for an MM install (I think you said my kit was Rev 2)

    Note this was a used kit that came with a game I bought

    #315 5 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    Maybe this has come up before but what sorts of compatibility or problems can one expect on Tron with Eli's ramp mod installed?

    No problems. The ramp mod gets its lamp info directly from the bus between the CPU and power driver boards, not the lamp matrix itself. Also, I've had one of the beta ramp kits and and LED OCD installed in my Tron for over 9 months now.

    Quoted from Concretehardt:

    Herg the kit that came with my MM is missing the Z connector do I need a z connector for an MM install (I think you said my kit was Rev 2)
    Note this was a used kit that came with a game I bought

    It shouldn't be needed for a WPC95. There are two GND connectors on the power driver board, and the Z-connector is not needed unless both of them have something connected. If you find that you DO need one, just let me know, and I'll ship you one. I could also send you a microcontroller with updated firmware if you want to swap it out. The only significant difference I can think of would be the passthrough, though. Once it's installed, the software will report the firmware version that's on yours.

    #316 5 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    No problems. The ramp mod gets its lamp info directly from the bus between the CPU and power driver boards, not the lamp matrix itself. Also, I've had one of the beta ramp kits and and LED OCD installed in my Tron for over 9 months now.

    Ah cool. My own uneducated thoughts put them using the same bus - didn't realize LED OCD interfaced higher up at the matrix itself. Thanks!

    #317 5 years ago

    I just installed my OCD I believe its the rev 2.. my problem is that some of my inserts on the playfield are lit solid others are flashing and others not lit at all. My D9 is blinking but D10 and D11 are kit solid
    Any ideas?

    #318 5 years ago
    Quoted from Concretehardt:

    I just installed my OCD I believe its the rev 2.. my problem is that some of my inserts on the playfield are lit solid others are flashing and others not lit at all. My D9 is blinking but D10 and D11 are kit solid
    Any ideas?

    Just sent you a PM.

    #319 5 years ago

    Got it thanks!

    #320 5 years ago

    Has anyone tried the LED OCD board in The Shadow? Just curious if that's a game that would benefit greatly (I just bought one and am considering trying LEDs with it).

    #321 5 years ago

    received and installed in SM tonight. No Ghosting, no flicker...very impressive. Next pin I convert will be with OCD and cheap, but still bright LEDs. 10/10 Great product...

    #322 5 years ago

    Just ordered a LCD OCD for my LotR! Looking forward to seeing it in action.

    #323 5 years ago

    Can I just install the led OCD controller and use it as is or do I have to update or change software?

    #324 5 years ago
    Quoted from Concretehardt:

    Can I just install the led OCD controller and use it as is or do I have to update or change software?

    you can use it as is. by default virtually all ghosting and strobing will be gone from the controlled lighting and the LEDs will have a very slight fade in/fade out like incandescents and be at about 85% brightness if i recall correctly.

    #325 5 years ago

    You can use it as is, but I highly recommend configuring it properly. Especially for certain games where there are certain lit shots that strobe really fast. With how the LED OCD makes everything pulse by default, it will be hard to see which shots are blinking quickly.

    #326 5 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    you can use it as is. by default virtually all ghosting and strobing will be gone from the controlled lighting and the LEDs will have a very slight fade in/fade out like incandescents and be at about 85% brightness if i recall correctly.

    Perfect thanks!

    #327 5 years ago

    AKM I'm putting it on MM and was hoping to able to run it as is (at least for now)

    #328 5 years ago

    Yes, it SHOULD be programmed with defaults. You have me second guessing myself, though.

    The one I sent you was an old revision that I updated, AND I didn't have any cables on hand to test it. You asking that question has me trying to remember if I actually stored the defaults. If not, you would have to use the software to configure it.

    #329 5 years ago
    Quoted from Concretehardt:

    AKM I'm putting it on MM and was hoping to able to run it as is (at least for now)

    You can run it as-is. Just keep in mind while you're playing, if you see a light on a shot that looks weird, and you go, "Hm, this was supposed to blink really really fast, but isn't doing it now," you need to adjust the settings for that insert. Unless you are fine with how it looks by default and you get used to it.

    Anyway, don't let it deter you from buying the board. I'm probably making it sound a lot more scary than it actually is.

    #330 5 years ago

    Herg how would I know if no defaults were stored?
    I have installed the board and it is a definite improvement!
    I may mess with the software later but I am very happy with the way it works right out of the box.
    Thanks again!

    #331 5 years ago

    If I hadn't stored defaults, nothing would light up. Basically, when I first program the firmware, everything is set to zero. As an additional step, I hook each one up, run the software, and program the defaults.

    The fact that it's lighting up also means I didn't mess up the cuts and jumpers for the hardware upgrade. I have my only unsold cable set loaned out to a guy who is looking into supplying the cables for the March run of boards, so I wasn't able to properly test the board I sent you. I never would have sold one in the state I sent that one, but since I was completely out of boards and the one you got with your machine purchase was broken, it was worth a shot.

    I'm glad it's working for you and that you're happy with it.

    #332 5 years ago

    I just preordered both the LED OCD and GI OCD.

    I have never been okay with the way LEDs work in the GI of my Whitewater. The lack of the dimming is a deal killer for me.

    I've been using the premium non-ghosting LEDs in my inserts but a few months ago I switched back to incandescent bulbs. That's when it really started to hit me that the LEDs don't perform nearly as well. The other day I put a few LEDs back in just to see them next to the incandescent bulbs. Not only is the abrupt on/off bothersome, but the LEDs will miss flashes, tend to be too bright (even the frosted) and just don't give you the same overall effect on the light show.

    #333 5 years ago

    I got all excited when I saw pre-order. Oh yeah I already did that. I'm looking forward to putting it in my space shuttle. The ghosting is hideous in that machine.

    #334 5 years ago

    All the time estimates have been pretty accurate to this point, and they say early March for the WPC run. My best guess is mid-March for me to be ready to ship. Certainly not any sooner.

    #335 5 years ago

    I just installed my LEDOCD on my LotR running a mixture of ablaze and other LED's (not non-ghosting) and even with the default settings the difference is remarkable! Not only is the ghosting and flickering completely gone, but the fade in and out effects are beautiful. Any game that is going to be staying in my collection will be getting one of these for sure.

    #336 5 years ago
    Quoted from Gov:

    I just installed my LEDOCD on my LotR running a mixture of ablaze and other LED's (not non-ghosting) and even with the default settings the difference is remarkable! Not only is the ghosting and flickering completely gone, but the fade in and out effects are beautiful. Any game that is going to be staying in my collection will be getting one of these for sure.

    ^this^
    what a difference this makes! The LED's on my MM were gunna cause me to have a seizure before the OCD controller was installed and now its waaaay better!

    1 week later
    #337 5 years ago

    Art at Comet Pinball and I have recently worked out a way for international customers to get kits. For now, it's only the Stern kits (that's all I have in stock), but we hope to make all of them available eventually. It also gives you guys an option to get the kits and LEDs from a single source.

    http://www.cometpinball.com/product-p/ledocdstern.htm

    Comet Pinball will also be at the Florida Arcade and Pinball Expo this weekend, Feb 21 - 23, in Fort Lauderdale. If you're able to attend, it should be a great time.

    http://www.floridaape.org/

    #338 5 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    All the time estimates have been pretty accurate to this point, and they say early March for the WPC run. My best guess is mid-March for me to be ready to ship. Certainly not any sooner.

    I'm on the wait list for WPC and I'm hoping to have my Funhouse ready to power on about the time this board will show up. This could be good timing for me

    #339 5 years ago
    Quoted from jathomp22:

    I'm on the wait list for WPC and I'm hoping to have my Funhouse ready to power on about the time this board will show up. This could be good timing for me

    waitin on one for my new funhouse as well

    #340 5 years ago

    How about the controlled GI in the shields of STNNG. This is not part of the typical lamp matrix thing. This along with 2 in RFM are the only ones I have had trouble with so far! My biggest problem is Pin Purchases keep pushing back my LED / mod purchases! Definitely a first world problem I suppose.............
    I know I discussed this with people before, but this is the last pin to go for me. If I discussed it with the op, sorry to bring it up again, but I would buy this if it corrected that. It would be shot to the top of my short list for pinball parts frankly. I have tried non ghosting, the no flux from Europe (they were worse than the cointaker non-ghosting lamps fyi and more money).

    Post edited by cougtv : Added more info to help me get help from the op

    #341 5 years ago

    For the STTNG shields, GI OCD should be able to handle it:
    http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gi-ocd-active-smoothing-for-gi-work-in-progress

    It has not been specifically tested with STTNG yet, but it probably will be in about a month when the new batch of those are built.

    #342 5 years ago

    Question:

    I have a lot of non ghosters already installed in my machines. Really don't want to revamp everything with cheap LEDs, but definitely want to try your product. Will I be ok running the non ghosters w the board? Is it still noticeable ?...thanks...mark

    #343 5 years ago

    Yeah, it works fine with non-ghosting bulbs, but you'll want to tweak the settings a little to account for them. Non-ghosting bulbs will not light at the low brightness levels, so you need to increase the duty cycle on the low end of the ramp.

    #344 5 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    Yeah, it works fine with non-ghosting bulbs, but you'll want to tweak the settings a little to account for them. Non-ghosting bulbs will not light at the low brightness levels, so you need to increase the duty cycle on the low end of the ramp.

    But ultimately you think it works best w standard LEDs, correct? Might try with the non ghosters first, and I've got a pretty good stash of normal LEDs if I get frisky...always trying to improve...

    #345 5 years ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    But ultimately you think it works best w standard LEDs, correct? Might try with the non ghosters first, and I've got a pretty good stash of normal LEDs if I get frisky...always trying to improve...

    Yes, standard LEDs will give the OCD board more direct control over the LEDs. I've been meaning to add some more technical info to the FAQs, so here's a preview.

    Since it seems everything needs a disclaimer these days , be aware that these graphs are just a representation of the observed ramp characteristics, and there's really pulsing and stuff going on behind the scenes.

    So, with standard LEDs, you can usually set the minimum brightness as low as 6% without any noticeable flicker. This means that when a lamp is being turned on, the first step is from 0% to 6%, allowing for a gradual ramp.

    Standard LED representation:
    LED OCD Ramp Example (Standard).png

    With no-ghost LEDs, the bulb will internally squash anything below around 25%, causing it not to light, and it will flicker up to about 35%. I normally set them to 40% minimum brightness to be safe. This results in a step from 0% to 40% when a bulb is first turned on, and as a result, the on/off ramp is not as smooth. It is still better than stock LEDs, though.

    No-ghost LED representation:
    LED OCD Ramp Example (No-Ghost).png

    #346 5 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    Yes, standard LEDs will give the OCD board more direct control over the LEDs. I've been meaning to add some more technical info to the FAQs, so here's a preview.
    Since it seems everything needs a disclaimer these days , be aware that these graphs are just a representation of the observed ramp characteristics, and there's really pulsing and stuff going on behind the scenes.
    So, with standard LEDs, you can usually set the minimum brightness as low as 6% without any noticeable flicker. This means that when a lamp is being turned on, the first step is from 0% to 6%, allowing for a gradual ramp.
    Standard LED representation:

    With no-ghost LEDs, the bulb will internally squash anything below around 25%, causing it not to light, and it will flicker up to about 35%. I normally set them to 40% minimum brightness to be safe. This results in a step from 0% to 40% when a bulb is first turned on, and as a result, the on/off ramp is not as smooth. It is still better than stock LEDs, though.
    No-ghost LED representation:

    LED OCD Ramp Example (Standard).... 25 KB

    LED OCD Ramp Example (No-Ghost).... 24 KB

    Seems pretty close, actually, per your graph (maybe close enough that I wouldn't have to change the non ghosters out). Curious...why is the total brightness lower w/ the OCD (or am I reading it wrong)...thanks....mark

    #347 5 years ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    Curious...why is the total brightness lower w/ the OCD

    By default, the maximum brightness is set to 85%. You can set it to 100% if you want, but this may result in ghosting. It has to do with the increased matrix scan rate and the response time of the transistors. I'm using the OCD method of brightness control in a similar way that the no-ghost ROM patch for WPC games works, only here we have more control over the turn-off time in relation to the turn-on of the next column.

    #348 5 years ago

    Herg, I just looked at the hardware and software installation instructions. I want one for my SM, LOTR LE and Whitewater.

    The only thing after reading all of this that I'm not sure of is if I have ablaze "non ghosters" in the SM and Lotr, what default settings do you recommend changing, from what % to what %. In other words, on you installation instructions I can see all the lamp settings at a number, do we change them all to a different %?

    I'm sure its been addressed but I couldn't find it anywhere. Thanks

    #349 5 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I'm sure its been addressed but I couldn't find it anywhere.

    Yeah, but it can be confusing. I'm trying to allow maximum control, but still keep it simple, and the balance is tricky.

    By default, all lamps are set to use profile 7. Profile 7 is set pretty close to the "Standard LEDs" ramp shown a few posts above. To adjust this for non-ghost LEDs, you would change the B1 value for profile 7 (shown in red below) to 40. If the "Advanced" checkbox is NOT checked, the intermediate values (the green ones below) will be automatically adjusted.

    no-ghost change.jpg

    #350 5 years ago

    This is so cool. Herg, will you be at the Fairfax Pinball Open at all?

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