(Topic ID: 29684)

FS: LED OCD - Eliminate LED flicker/strobe/ghost - Control brightness


By herg

8 years ago



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  • 835 posts
  • 168 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 14 days ago by pinballinreno
  • Topic is favorited by 126 Pinsiders

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    There are 835 posts in this topic. You are on page 17 of 17.
    #801 36 days ago
    Quoted from qbass187:

    I’ve been reading through this thread and I’m a little confused as to what the difference was between the LEDOCD board & the GI OCD board... I’m thinking of picking some up for the LED ghosting in my TZ & CFTBL pins but I’m not sure which of the 2 (or both) will do what I need.
    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks!!

    Quoted from Coyote:

    LEDOCD - handles Insert and controlled lamps.
    GIOCD - handles GI lamps.

    If your budget is limited, get LEDOCD first. If not, get both.

    I'm confused on this point as well, where do you get the GI board? I'm mostly concerned with the inserts, not the GI...but frankly there are some games where the GI is almost as important as the inserts when it comes to flicker. Which one of these controls flashers (not that that would really matter for flicker...just curious)?

    #802 36 days ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    I'm confused on this point as well, where do you get the GI board? I'm mostly concerned with the inserts, not the GI...but frankly there are some games where the GI is almost as important as the inserts when it comes to flicker. Which one of these controls flashers (not that that would really matter for flicker...just curious)?

    The GI board should be listed on the same site, it's made by herg , along with the the other boards.

    You CAN get them in any order you want, if you can't get both at once. I think that despite GI effects, you get more immediate notice and like with the Controlled Lighting one (LEDOCD), as those are guaranteed to be blinking on and off as you play. The GI, if you already have LEDs in, and the strobing bothers you, you can turn GI Dimming 'Off' (note: on WPC machines. Not talking about others) until you can get the GI board.

    Edit to add: Yes, I live by these boards - I can not STAND the harsh on-off of LEDs, and my TZ needed these.

    #803 36 days ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    What do you know about SMVE? Does LEDOCD work with it too?

    Just looked at my SMVE backbox boards, same setup for the lamps as IMVE. So I believe LEDOCD will work just fine in it to. Just have to take off the two little boards added by Stern before installing the LEDOCD board.

    #804 36 days ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    What do you know about SMVE? Does LEDOCD work with it too?

    I'm not nearly as familiar with SMVE. I haven't owned SM, so I haven't looked into it as much as IM(VE). I do know it works in SMVE, but I'm not sure if the firmware has been tweaked like IMVE was. Edit, looks like you beat me to answering your own question.

    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Which one of these controls flashers (not that that would really matter for flicker...just curious)?

    Sorry, but I don't have anything for flashers. I have put a little bit of work into it, but I have not come up with a good way to implement it where it's still easy to install and affordable.

    #805 36 days ago

    Car crowd digs the subtle ramp up/down as well. Probably a market in the auto resto-mod crowd for a similar board.

    https://jalopnik.com/eagle-eyed-turn-signal-enthusiasts-note-a-fascinating-d-1845927919

    #806 36 days ago

    I just want to thank herg He recognized by my comments in this thread that I had purchased the wrong item and fixed it for me before shipping out. Great customer service and super observant fellow. Thanks!

    #807 36 days ago
    Quoted from Completist:

    When you install LEDs in your GI lamps on a WPC game you will lose the mpu controllled dimming effect. I bet there are people who don’t even realize this is a thing (if their game was already LED’d). The GI OCD board returns this feature. I personally like this so i left my GI incandescent in my CV until i bought this board.

    I always knew I was losing fade effects but felt it was worth the added benefits of leds. I felt like the game looked better in the end so called it good enough. It wasn't until I saw the OCD boards in action that I realized how much better these games look with proper fade effects. They also fix all the issues with leds like ghosting and flickering. My Fish Tales had horrible ghosting problems that drove me crazy. Boards just fixed everything. Love them!

    #808 32 days ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    I always knew I was losing fade effects but felt it was worth the added benefits of leds. I felt like the game looked better in the end so called it good enough. It wasn't until I saw the OCD boards in action that I realized how much better these games look with proper fade effects. They also fix all the issues with leds like ghosting and flickering. My Fish Tales had horrible ghosting problems that drove me crazy. Boards just fixed everything. Love them!

    Gosh, now I’m thinking I need to get some of these OCD boards for the GI too... I’ll wait to see how they do on the inserts, but I’m one that never really realized I was missing out on dimming effect in my WMS games...

    #809 32 days ago

    I just ordered the LEDOCD and the GIzmo for my SMVE and my IMVE. I’ll report back here when I get em and put em in.

    #810 32 days ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    I just ordered the LEDOCD and the GIOCD for my SMVE and my IMVE. I’ll report back here when I get em and put em in.

    GI OCD isn’t for SAM games - SM and IM don’t do GI effects other than on or off.

    There’s ‘GIzmo’ which softens that ON/OFF relay bit, but it’s nothing particularly sophisticated (no offence intended to its creator). Helps with games like TRON when the GI goes apeshit when you hit a spinner during Zeus (i think?).

    #811 32 days ago
    Quoted from monkeyboypaul:

    GI OCD isn’t for SAM games - SM and IM don’t do GI effects other than on or off.
    There’s ‘GIzmo’ which softens that ON/OFF relay bit, but it’s nothing particularly sophisticated (no offence intended to its creator). Helps with games like TRON when the GI goes apeshit when you hit a spinner during Zeus (i think?).

    I meant GIzmo. It’s just listed in the store in GI OCD page link.

    http://ledocd.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=19

    #812 32 days ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    I meant GIzmo. It’s just listed in the store in GI OCD page link.
    http://ledocd.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=19

    Cool - you’re on it, no worries.

    Got GIzmo’s in SM, IMVE and Tron. Works well.

    #813 32 days ago
    Quoted from monkeyboypaul:

    GI OCD isn’t for SAM games - SM and IM don’t do GI effects other than on or off.
    There’s ‘GIzmo’ which softens that ON/OFF relay bit, but it’s nothing particularly sophisticated (no offence intended to its creator). Helps with games like TRON when the GI goes apeshit when you hit a spinner during Zeus (i think?)

    But Tron is an SAM game?

    Does the GI OCD help with Twilight Zone, Doctor Who, TAF, and BSD? If so, which one does it help the most? I’m tempted to go ahead and order one to test now. Thanks!

    #814 32 days ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    But Tron is an SAM game?
    Does the GI OCD help with Twilight Zone, Doctor Who, TAF, and BSD? If so, which one does it help the most? I’m tempted to go ahead and order one to test now. Thanks!

    I’ve a GIzmo in Tron - it’s a SAM game, so that’s the only option to soften/reduce blinky GI ON/OFF effects.

    As for WPC games, GI OCD helps a LOT, especially in games with GI dimming. I have one in FT, which doesn’t do all that much (if any) but it keeps the lights from flickering and I had it laying around after selling Congo! Also got one in TZ, which works really nicely for the calls for “I want it [Power Ball] back” and on Jackpots. I think BSD has a load of GI dimming, as does TAF, so I’d do those 1st. Use basic NOT anti/non ghosting LEDs. I use Comets 2SMD sunlight.

    #815 32 days ago
    Quoted from monkeyboypaul:

    Use basic NOT anti/non ghosting LEDs. I use Comets 2SMD sunlight.

    jodester and zukboy2002 , please review the posts over the last ten days in this thread and let’s discuss. Thanks!

    #816 32 days ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    jodester and zukboy2002 , please review the posts over the last ten days in this thread and let’s discuss. Thanks!

    Not sure what you want to discuss, but herg stated it earlier in this thread, I believe, as well as on his site -

    Non-Ghosting LEDs have some additional circuitry (capacitors, resistors,mix of both) that help eliminate the flicker and 'ghosting'.

    The circuitry tries to minimize pulses in the voltage going to the LED unit.

    However, the way you 'dim' LEDs is not by adjusting voltage, but PWM - pulse-width modulation - which is giving the LED pulses of current to turn on and off really fast. Very, VERY fast. Your eye then doesn't see the strobing, but the LED diming and brightening.

    The OCD family of products, to achieve an incandescent-like burn-up and cool-down on the LEDs, uses PWM.

    Now, if you recall what I just mentioned, the non-ghosting LEDs try to MINIMIZE pulsing, PWM - so, they are trying to UNDO what the OCD boards are TYING to do.

    So, to summarize? USE NORMAL LEDs. Do NOT use non-ghosting.

    I admit, using the term "non non-ghosting" or "non anti-ghosting" is really effin' confusing. Don't use double-negatives.

    Ahem. There.

    #817 31 days ago

    As a followup - rereading my post, I sound like a dick. That wasn't intended, honest.

    #818 31 days ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    As a followup - rereading my post, I sound like a dick. That wasn't intended, honest.

    You didn’t sound like a Dick at all. The more broken down you can make this the better. This was an area of pinball I knew close to zero about till I posted in this thread.

    #819 31 days ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    You didn’t sound like a Dick at all. The more broken down you can make this the better. This was an area of pinball I knew close to zero about till I posted in this thread.

    Thanks, Unrelated, ex-wife's family came over, despite the pandemic and all, and I was stressed yesterday.

    #820 30 days ago
    Quoted from monkeyboypaul:

    I’ve a GIzmo in Tron - it’s a SAM game, so that’s the only option to soften/reduce blinky GI ON/OFF effects.
    As for WPC games, GI OCD helps a LOT, especially in games with GI dimming. I have one in FT, which doesn’t do all that much (if any) but it keeps the lights from flickering and I had it laying around after selling Congo! Also got one in TZ, which works really nicely for the calls for “I want it [Power Ball] back” and on Jackpots. I think BSD has a load of GI dimming, as does TAF, so I’d do those 1st. Use basic NOT anti/non ghosting LEDs. I use Comets 2SMD sunlight.

    Just a quick follow up to Coyote's thorough post: TAF and TZ benefit immensely from the GIOCD boards specifically. You have to allow the game to use the dimming circuit (it's in the game's menu) but wow does it make a difference. OG Monster Bash as well, especially during Wolfman and Mummy modes. I have not tried one in my DW, I will have to do that.

    #821 30 days ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    I have not tried one in my DW, I will have to do that

    Let us know. I hadn’t noticed the flickering inserts on my DW (not nearly as bad as my Shrek), but I’m very tempted to get the GI board as I remember the dimming effects were more impressive with the incandescent bulbs.

    #822 30 days ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Let us know. I hadn’t noticed the flickering inserts on my DW (not nearly as bad as my Shrek), but I’m very tempted to get the GI board as I remember the dimming effects were more impressive with the incandescent bulbs.

    I put both the LED OCD and the GIOCD on my DW.
    It has total LED coverage. No #906 bulbs or #89 bulbs at all. Zero incandescents.

    Flickering was not an issue. But the harshness and the lack of slow pulsing/ramping of the inserts throws the look off.

    The GIOCD is Mandatory with GI dimming enabled you get incredible effects.

    There is a setting that has to be enabled in the OCD adjustment software to enable string 5 (I enabled them all).

    You have to do this!

    The difference is night and day.

    I also lowered brightness to 78% and changed the delay to 3 (slightly faster).

    It seems about perfect.

    In my opinion, using sunlight 2smd throughout and with the 2 OCD boards, It looks way better than the original.

    However at pinballgoddess request, I do have 2 dual flex heads in red on the continue insert

    #823 30 days ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    changed the delay to 3 (slightly faster).

    I told Herg about this a long time ago, but the one issue I have with the OCD dimming is that it SEEMS linear.

    i.e. If the brightness is going from 100 to 0 (on to off), the ramp up is even - after a quarter of the delay it'll be down to 75% brightness, then halfway, 50%, then three-quarters, 25% brightness, and so on. However, actual incandescent bulbs do not work that way - it's a logarithmic build-up/drop off. (i.e. when cooling down, the bulb will drop from 100% to 50% in the first quarter as the speed of dropoff slows. (*)

    However, I'm being so VERY anal in this, that it's not really worth the amount of time program in - what it dos now is 100% more than acceptable.

    (*) - The only reason I know this is because when I work on older, incandescent railroad signals, I have to have a luminosity tester. Once a year I have to record the 'on time' and 'off time' of all incandescent bulbs, to verify that a bulb's burnup isn't taking too long in case a signal drops (goes to red) quickly - the engineer needs to see the red light ASAP. The only way to fix this - if a bulb fails (which it can and has) is to either bump up the voltage, replace the mirror, or replace the bulb with a higher wattage one. P. I. T. A.

    #824 29 days ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    I told Herg about this a long time ago, but the one issue I have with the OCD dimming is that it SEEMS linear.

    I tried to address this by allowing you to set the mapping from a brightness level to a PWM duty cycle. In the software, you can set B1 (12.5%) to a PWM that does not equal 12.5%. You can shape the ramp. Granted, I didn't give you separate ramp up / ramp down settings.

    Early firmware versions would simply step from one brightness (B*) level to another. In an attempt to make things even smoother, the newer (like last 3 years, or so) does an interpolation between two brightness levels. While you're setting the PWM for 8 brightness levels, internally, there are 64 levels that it steps between, and how many steps get taken each lamp refresh cycle are controlled by the delay value.

    Now, why don't I just set the ramp to the perfect incandescent logarithmic curve? I don't really have enough experience to know what that is, but even if I did, different LED lamps react to PWM duty cycles differently. Start adding in things like locations with dual lamps, non-ghosting bulbs, LED strips, etc., and I decided that allowing people flexibility to set this if they wanted, while setting the defaults to something that looked good to me, was the best way to go about it.

    #825 29 days ago
    Quoted from herg:

    I tried to address this by allowing you to set the mapping from a brightness level to a PWM duty cycle. In the software, you can set B1 (12.5%) to a PWM that does not equal 12.5%. You can shape the ramp. Granted, I didn't give you separate ramp up / ramp down settings.
    Early firmware versions would simply step from one brightness (B*) level to another. In an attempt to make things even smoother, the newer (like last 3 years, or so) does an interpolation between two brightness levels. While you're setting the PWM for 8 brightness levels, internally, there are 64 levels that it steps between, and how many steps get taken each lamp refresh cycle are controlled by the delay value.
    Now, why don't I just set the ramp to the perfect incandescent logarithmic curve? I don't really have enough experience to know what that is, but even if I did, different LED lamps react to PWM duty cycles differently. Start adding in things like locations with dual lamps, non-ghosting bulbs, LED strips, etc., and I decided that allowing people flexibility to set this if they wanted, while setting the defaults to something that looked good to me, was the best way to go about it.

    Oh, I understand. And aren't complaining. Just stating. I think my boards are the early versions that don't do the ramp-up. But even with that, my boards do the job, and do it well.

    #826 29 days ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Thanks, Unrelated, ex-wife's family came over, despite the pandemic and all, and I was stressed yesterday.

    See...NOW you sound like a dick.

    Hope all is well with you...this COVID shit sure can crap on your day.

    #827 29 days ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    See...NOW you sound like a dick.
    Hope all is well with you...this COVID shit sure can crap on your day.

    HAH! *YOU* haven't met my ex-inlaws. (Hell, for that matter, *I* haven't ever wanted to see my ex-inaws again, either.)

    #828 29 days ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    HAH! *YOU* haven't met my ex-inlaws. (Hell, for that matter, *I* haven't ever wanted to see my ex-inaws again, either.)

    What the hell were they doing coming over in the first place?

    #829 29 days ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    What the hell were they doing coming over in the first place?

    Heh. Long story, not suitable here.

    #830 29 days ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    I think my boards are the early versions that don't do the ramp-up.

    All OCD boards have had the configurable ramp since they were first released.

    #831 29 days ago
    Quoted from herg:

    All OCD boards have had the configurable ramp since they were first released.

    Correction - I was meaning the 64-steps rampup.

    2 weeks later
    #832 14 days ago

    So today I installed LEDOCD and GIZMO in both my IMVE and SMVE. Gizmo while subtle definitely is an improvement in the way the GI fades on/off (the fade off seems more gradual than the on). Gizmo IS a tight fit with the current wires to the left of it, but is doable, with some patience and forethought pertaining to wire placement. The LEDOCD is amazing, first I did IronMan Vault, and after install and turning feature adjustment 21 to incandescents I turned the machine on. After a few seconds the inserts came on and all faded on off gradually, almost like the machine was breathing and alive. Straight out of the box the settings are fine for IMVE. Now Spiderman Vault was great too but will need adjustments to really get it perfect. Some inserts are still a bit too fast ramping on off though nothing like they were. Also I didn’t see a feature adjustment like in Iron Man vault that allowed me to turn setting from LEDs to incandescents. I do wish the yellow column cable/wire set was a bit longer, had my machines had a small board in the location I put the LEDOCD board I may not have been able to connect it even with turning the LEDOCD board 90 degrees (just an inch or two would have been so much better for routing the cables). And yes I could have moved the board up more but I was trying to not make too sharp of a bend on the LEDOCD cables as they are a thicker gauge wire and would put pressure upon the board itself once connected which I really didn’t want.
    Overall GREAT products - MUST haves if you have LEDs IMO.

    5703E8D3-F92F-45D6-B6F5-4CC9794E3587 (resized).jpegAA6FAB3A-28EA-422F-913F-939E053D861F (resized).jpegF09AB0F2-439F-49A9-9CD6-95B2E440C3EB (resized).jpeg

    #833 14 days ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    Straight out of the box the settings are fine for IMVE. Now Spiderman Vault was great too but will need adjustments to really get it perfect. Some inserts are still a bit too fast ramping on off though nothing like they were. Also I didn’t see a feature adjustment like in Iron Man vault that allowed me to turn setting from LEDs to incandescents.

    Please check Feature Adjustment 49 (i don't have a VE, so can't test this).

    Posted this a year ago when someone else asked the same question:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/club-spidey-members-and-guests-welcome/page/32#post-5402774

    OCD is truly an excellent product.

    #834 14 days ago
    Quoted from monkeyboypaul:

    Please check Feature Adjustment 49 (i don't have a VE, so can't test this).
    Posted this a year ago when someone else asked the same question:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/club-spidey-members-and-guests-welcome/page/32#post-5402774
    OCD is truly an excellent product.

    Yeah I had seen that and it is set to dimming. I think one difference with the Spiderman inserts as compared to my Iron Man in attract mode is the speed that the inserts are turned on/off by the software. Iron man is much slower than Spiderman - much more “organic” if I had to describe it. The faster on/off on certain inserts on Spiderman in attract mode with LEDOCD looks odd compared to my Iron man. And I don’t know if changing LEDOCD settings would really do anything pertaining to the rate the software in the game turns the inserts on and off.

    #835 14 days ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    Yeah I had seen that and it is set to dimming. I think one difference with the Spiderman inserts as compared to my Iron Man in attract mode is the speed that the inserts are turned on/off by the software. Iron man is much slower than Spiderman - much more “organic” if I had to describe it. The faster on/off on certain inserts on Spiderman in attract mode with LEDOCD looks odd compared to my Iron man. And I don’t know if changing LEDOCD settings would really do anything pertaining to the rate the software in the game turns the inserts on and off.

    The LEDOCD software will let you dial in your LED's to make it look right.
    It just takes a little tinkering and you'll get it perfect.

    There are 835 posts in this topic. You are on page 17 of 17.

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