FS: LED OCD - Eliminate LED flicker/strobe/ghost - Control brightness


By herg

5 years ago


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  • Latest reply 2 months ago by MustangPaul
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    There are 755 posts in topic. You are on page 15 of 16.
    #702 2 years ago
    Quoted from MustangPaul:

    I have a new pf coming so I should really get one. I have them in my Nascar and Avatar LE, I installed them right out of the box and they look fantastic with no adjustments. Did you do any adjustments to yours for your Bride? Did you have to buy the longer cables?

    Sorry for the late reply. The only adjustments I made were for the inserts that still have incandescents. And I dimmed down the two eye LEDs because they were blinding. Basically personal preference stuff.

    No the longer cable wasn't needed.

    Here's where I installed mine...20150906_004712.jpg

    #703 2 years ago

    Yeah, plug 'n play for TSPP. I have only had to adjust one game so far because of shot indication issues (The Rolling Stones). The only other games I have had to adjust manually are games where I installed extremely bright bulbs (Ripleys and Goldeneye). Pretty much everything else I installed it in looked good out of the box.

    1 week later
    #705 2 years ago

    After over a year I finally got the inserts in my White Water fully LEDed and installed the OCD board. I love this thing!

    After getting all the LEDs in the inserts, I played for about a week without the board installed; my take was that the Cointaker supers were too bright; abrupt flashing on/off of the LEDs was pretty jarring and the nice light-show effects suffered; the whole feel was pretty "in your face" and harsh. Oddly, I wasn't getting any ghosting with the Cointakers, although I had gotten some ghosting with other brands.

    After installing the LED OCD the difference was very noticeable. You get all the great colors of the LEDs but the effect is a LOT more natural and mimics the incandescent lights. The smooth fades are crucial to a lot of the lighting effects on this game. For example, the "RIVER" letter inserts have this nice scrolling light pattern that works really nicely when the lights slightly fade but comes off as really clunky otherwise.

    The other huge advantage is brightness control. In my experience, finding just the right LED colors can be tricky (i.e., different brands and types give off different colors). Finding the right color AND the right brightness is pretty much impossible. With this board you can focus on the color you want and adjust the brightness (if needed). The LED OCD board tones down the brightness automatically. But you can also custom adjust. I haven't gotten to tweaking the brightness settings yet with the software but will. Mostly everything looks good stock but there are few areas where I want to customize.

    Great product! My main problem with LEDs is that while the colors and reduced heat are great, I always felt like the original intent of the lighting suffered and the overall result was a trade-off. With the LED OCD board there is no trade-off, you don't lose anything. You get all the advantages of the leds + you keep the advantages of the original incandescent lights. This is one of those MODs where your non-pinball addict would never notice your game was modded, and that's a good thing!

    One day I'll get around to doing the GI.

    #706 2 years ago
    Quoted from Jam_Burglar:

    After over a year I finally got the inserts in my White Water fully LEDed and installed the OCD board. I love this thing!
    After getting all the LEDs in the inserts, I played for about a week without the board installed; my take was that the Cointaker supers were too bright; abrupt flashing on/off of the LEDs was pretty jarring and the nice light-show effects suffered; the whole feel was pretty "in your face" and harsh. Oddly, I wasn't getting any ghosting with the Cointakers, although I had gotten some ghosting with other brands.
    After installing the LED OCD the difference was very noticeable. You get all the great colors of the LEDs but the effect is a LOT more natural and mimics the incandescent lights. The smooth fades are crucial to a lot of the lighting effects on this game. For example, the "RIVER" letter inserts have this nice scrolling light pattern that works really nicely when the lights slightly fade but comes off as really clunky otherwise.
    The other huge advantage is brightness control. In my experience, finding just the right LED colors can be tricky (i.e., different brands and types give off different colors). Finding the right color AND the right brightness is pretty much impossible. With this board you can focus on the color you want and adjust the brightness (if needed). The LED OCD board tones down the brightness automatically. But you can also custom adjust. I haven't gotten to tweaking the brightness settings yet with the software but will. Mostly everything looks good stock but there are few areas where I want to customize.
    Great product! My main problem with LEDs is that while the colors and reduced heat are great, I always felt like the original intent of the lighting suffered and the overall result was a trade-off. With the LED OCD board there is no trade-off, you don't lose anything. You get all the advantages of the leds + you keep the advantages of the original incandescent lights. This is one of those MODs where your non-pinball addict would never notice your game was modded, and that's a good thing!
    One day I'll get around to doing the GI.

    Yup to all what you said AND (if you have a lot of games) the benefit you get with leds of a 60% power savings is a huge plus in my book.

    1 month later
    #707 2 years ago

    Anyone try this with an IJ yet?

    #708 2 years ago

    How do I get this

    #711 2 years ago
    Quoted from zucot:

    Anyone try this with an IJ yet?

    Yes. I have it controlling the LEDs in my inserts and it's awesome. Highly recommended. (I kept incandescent GI because it keeps the retro feel...I felt LEDs were too yellowy and bright.)

    #712 2 years ago

    Okay, question for you advanced guys..

    My OCD finally came in, and on my game, I'm leaving visible lights (pop bumpers, comdom'd lights) as incandescent.

    However, in the software, when I set these lights to '1', the Incandescent setting, they are still dimmer and delayed moreso than without the OCD.

    Before I made changes to the setting #1 (the 'Incandescent' setting) and changed Min to '0', max to '100', and evenly distrubets the values in between, that helped, but there's still a delay. Was wondering if this is the best for Incandescents, or if it was possible to enable 'passthrough' for these lights. (When enabling / disabling passthrough, I can see a difference on how the incandescent's are lit up.)

    Thanks!
    -Me.

    #713 2 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    My OCD finally came in

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean, but your order was placed on Friday 10/30, and today is Monday 11/2.

    Quoted from Coyote:

    However, in the software, when I set these lights to '1', the Incandescent setting, they are still dimmer and delayed moreso than without the OCD.

    The only way to make incandescents light up as fast with the faster scan rate of the lamp matrix as they do without the OCD is to set the ramp to all 100s. Even then, they might not light up as quickly due to the delay of transistors. The delay will be a higher percentage of each timeslot.

    You can try to make the incandenscents fit in, but LED OCD is optimized for LEDs, and incandescents will likely suffer a bit.

    Passthrough is brighter because it is simply passing the input signals straight through to the outputs. Due to the matrix, there is no way to do this only for certain lamps.

    #714 2 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean, but your order was placed on Friday 10/30, and today is Monday 11/2.

    Yeah, apologies - I see how that can be taken the wrong way - I wasn't implying it took long at all. Rather, it was sitting at my PO all day, because out mail carrier broke down - the fill-in guy drove up tonight around 8pm to deliver all mail, and the OCD was in there. Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle feathers; wasn't my intent.

    Quoted from herg:

    The only way to make incandescents light up as fast with the faster scan rate of the lamp matrix as they do without the OCD is to set the ramp to all 100s. Even then, they might not light up as quickly due to the delay of transistors. The delay will be a higher percentage of each timeslot.
    You can try to make the incandenscents fit in, but LED OCD is optimized for LEDs, and incandescents will likely suffer a bit.
    Passthrough is brighter because it is simply passing the input signals straight through to the outputs. Due to the matrix, there is no way to do this only for certain lamps.

    Okay, so pretty much, that's how it is. I can live with it, just was wanting (hoping?) there was a faster reflex for the incandescents. For me, it's not about brightness - it's about look and feel. Hence, why the pop bumpers are staying incandescents.

    #715 2 years ago

    Herg's pretty OCD about shipping times. (Did you catch what I did there?)

    #716 2 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    Herg's pretty OCD about shipping times. (Did you catch what I did there?)

    Yeah! To expand on that, I wasn't expecting to receive it and the GI board until later this week. However, last night I was pleased as punch when the usps site said I'd get it today - a day home from the office. Just my luck then, when the mail didn't arrive at 10am like usual.. Instead st 730 - 8pm.. I was only able to get the OCD in, software installed, to mess with it for a few minutes before having to call it a day. I still have to get the GI in now...!

    #717 2 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Yeah! To expand on that, I wasn't expecting to receive it and the GI board until later this week. However, last night I was pleased as punch when the usps site said I'd get it today - a day home from the office. Just my luck then, when the mail didn't arrive at 10am like usual.. Instead st 730 - 8pm.. I was only able to get the OCD in, software installed, to mess with it for a few minutes before having to call it a day. I still have to get the GI in now...!

    Enjoy. You'll be lucky you have only 2 machines in your collection, because once you get one of these, you get them for every machine.

    #718 2 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Yeah, apologies

    Same here. I was on edge when I read it, and took the worst from it. I had just finished packing orders for the day, including going back to the basement a second time to pack an order that came in after I had finished for the day. Sorry I snapped.

    Quoted from Coyote:

    Okay, so pretty much, that's how it is.

    Well, kinda. You can still change the ramp shape to try to get better results.

    Brightness, yeah, that's how it is. At least if it's a lamp that's lit steady and B8 is set for 100%, that's the brightest incandescents can light with the faster timing. If it's turning on too gradually, you can sharpen the ramp.

    Instead of the default:
    30 40 50 60 70 80 84 84
    I think you've set it to:
    0 13 26 40 53 66 80 100

    That means at the intermediate values you have it set lower than the default. When the lamps are blinking, they will be getting less average power and take longer to glow on. BTW, B1 is not the lowest value. B0 is always 0%, so you can use something higher for B1. You can also check the Advanced box and manually set B2-B7 to shape the ramp rather than letting it automatically set them linearly.

    Setting them too high can cause them to stay on too long when turning off, and 100% on B8 might cause ghosting on other inserts, so it can be very tricky to deal with them.

    Some things you can try:

    Sharper edge for the on / off transitions, but latency during the B1 - B4 while turning on and during B8 - B5 while turning off.
    0 0 0 0 100 100 100 100

    Less latency while turning on, more while turning off
    0 0 100 100 100 100 100 100

    Higher average brightness, but avoid ghosting
    50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85

    Same low and high end, but faster transition
    50 50 50 70 85 85 85 85

    As you can see, there are a lot of options, and a lot of it depends on what the game is trying to do and how you want them to look.

    You've also got me thinking about things a bit more, and I'm wondering if a different scheme might work better for incandescents. It would require new firmware, but I could keep the ramping for LEDs while only using B0 and B8 if a profile is set as incandescent mode. That would minimize the latency for on/off transitions, and leave the fading up the bulbs themselves.

    #719 2 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    You've also got me thinking about things a bit more, and I'm wondering if a different scheme might work better for incandescents. It would require new firmware, but I could keep the ramping for LEDs while only using B0 and B8 if a profile is set as incandescent mode. That would minimize the latency for on/off transitions, and leave the fading up the bulbs themselves.

    This is a good idea because the more you allow the bulb to work the fading itself the more it would act like stock, no?

    #720 2 years ago
    Quoted from Jam_Burglar:

    This is a good idea because the more you allow the bulb to work the fading itself the more it would act like stock, no?

    Probably, but it would also be additional processing, so it could affect performance of the LED control. I'll take a look when I get time.

    #721 2 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    Enjoy. You'll be lucky you have only 2 machines in your collection, because once you get one of these, you get them for every machine.

    Oy - I'm not too worried about that, all in all. The only reason it took me so long to get it for my TZ is because the TZ was/is a really expensive restore, and I had to get a LOT of other things for it.. So, since the OCDs were seen as finishing touches, they came up near the end of the restore. However, when getting another game, it won't have such a huge parts need, so.. I can drop the buck and a quarter for an LED OCD without issue.

    Quoted from herg:

    Same here. I was on edge when I read it, and took the worst from it. I had just finished packing orders for the day, including going back to the basement a second time to pack an order that came in after I had finished for the day. Sorry I snapped.

    Not needed, and no harm done. I was worried I really pissed you off, and that sure as heck wasn't my intent.

    Quoted from herg:

    Well, kinda. You can still change the ramp shape to try to get better results.
    Brightness, yeah, that's how it is. At least if it's a lamp that's lit steady and B8 is set for 100%, that's the brightest incandescents can light with the faster timing. If it's turning on too gradually, you can sharpen the ramp.
    Instead of the default:
    30 40 50 60 70 80 84 84
    I think you've set it to:
    0 13 26 40 53 66 80 100
    That means at the intermediate values you have it set lower than the default. When the lamps are blinking, they will be getting less average power and take longer to glow on. BTW, B1 is not the lowest value. B0 is always 0%

    AH! I wasn't aware there was a 'B0'! Thanks for that!

    Quoted from herg:

    so you can use something higher for B1. You can also check the Advanced box and manually set B2-B7 to shape the ramp rather than letting it automatically set them linearly.
    Setting them too high can cause them to stay on too long when turning off, and 100% on B8 might cause ghosting on other inserts, so it can be very tricky to deal with them.
    [... snip! ...]

    Thanks for those, I'll give them a try. I did the 'advanced' and modified my ramp to be linear - but having thought that B1 was the lowest, started that at 0. At that setting, anyone that didn't have a non-OCD's game to compare against really could NOT tell a difference, unless they were very observant in patterns. (Or, was comparing an incandescent to an LED on the same game under similar inserts.) You can most notice it in the difference when you enter / exit the passive mode, which now I know is expected.

    Quoted from herg:

    You've also got me thinking about things a bit more, and I'm wondering if a different scheme might work better for incandescents. It would require new firmware, but I could keep the ramping for LEDs while only using B0 and B8 if a profile is set as incandescent mode. That would minimize the latency for on/off transitions, and leave the fading up the bulbs themselves.

    If you need a beta-tester, feel free to let me know.
    However, have an odd question - these 'B' values (B0-B7) - are these used in the OCD only? Or are they based on the input from the power driver board? Specifically, some newer games (like CV) dim lights. Older ones (like my TZ) only do it when the game's in power-save mode. Are these 'B' values based on that 'dimming' by the power board? Or are they only used in OCD for the ramp-up and ramp-down?

    --Mike

    #722 2 years ago

    In the case of LED OCD, the B# values are really only internal to the OCD. I wasn't aware that CV did dimming of the lamp matrix lamps, but Stern games do a lot of it. Internal to the game, they might have some similar system, but I don't really know how they handle it.

    A simplified way of looking at it is "during the last 8 timeslots for this lamp, how many of them were on?"

    To dim a lamp, Stern (and maybe Williams on CV, etc.) alternates which timeslots a lamp is turned on. For 50%, something like
    1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 ...

    The OCD looks at that and translate it to a B4 as a goal brightness; what the machine is saying to do. The OCD then uses an algorithm that takes the current output B# value along with the delay to incrementally move toward the goal brightness, then maps the output B# value to a duty cycle percentage.

    GI OCD there really are 8 distinct levels coming out of the game. The GI OCD interprets them, then runs them through a similar (but slightly more advanced) algorithm.

    #723 2 years ago

    Good to know then, thanks!

    #724 2 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    It would require new firmware, but I could keep the ramping for LEDs while only using B0 and B8 if a profile is set as incandescent mode.

    I had a bit of time to myself this evening, and got this working. I really can't tell a difference on my game, but I have a chip ready to send to Coyote to try.

    #725 2 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    I had a bit of time to myself this evening, and got this working. I really can't tell a difference on my game, but I have a chip ready to send to Coyote to try.

    Awesome, be interested in trying it out. I CAN burn chips, if that's any easier and cheaper..!

    #726 2 years ago

    I am so late to this party, but after reading this thread from start-to-finish and watching several of the videos, I'm giving this a try. Order placed!

    #727 2 years ago
    Quoted from BrokenToken:

    after reading this thread from start-to-finish

    That's dedication!

    #728 2 years ago
    Quoted from BrokenToken:

    I am so late to this party, but after reading this thread from start-to-finish and watching several of the videos, I'm giving this a try. Order placed!

    Oh BT, you are so late to the parties.

    #729 2 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    That's dedication!

    LOL - Well, you can call me late to dinner, but I will be thorough when I show up.

    Quoted from Kawydud:

    Oh BT, you are so late to the parties.

    Hey Kawy! Yeah, it's a struggle I can't out run. Have credit card, will travel though.

    #730 2 years ago

    The boards are out of stock i know but how much are they?
    Thanks

    #731 2 years ago
    Quoted from urbanledge:

    The boards are out of stock i know but how much are they?

    herg's web store shows them all (with exception of the upcoming Capcom) in stock.

    It also shows prices for each.

    #732 2 years ago
    Quoted from urbanledge:

    The boards are out of stock i know but how much are they?
    Thanks

    Blackjacker is correct, but seeing as you're in Ireland, you may be asking about buying from Comet Pinball since they are able to ship internationally. They are currently out of stock, but should be receiving a new shipment tomorrow. They are $139 for the Stern ones when buying from Comet.
    http://www.cometpinball.com/Stern-LED-OCD-Board-p/ledocdstern.htm

    #733 2 years ago

    apoligize if this is a dumb question, but does this make any difference during gameplay? Seems like all the videos are of attract mode.

    #734 2 years ago

    Capcom looks amazing!!

    #735 2 years ago
    Quoted from resipsa:

    apoligize if this is a dumb question, but does this make any difference during gameplay? Seems like all the videos are of attract mode.

    Yes -- I imagine the videos are shot in attract mode just because it's a pain in the ass to try to record video while you're playing! Definitely makes a difference during gameplay.

    #736 2 years ago
    Quoted from resipsa:

    apoligize if this is a dumb question, but does this make any difference during gameplay? Seems like all the videos are of attract mode.

    I'll tell you what: if you buy a board and put it in and hate it, I'll buy it from you. But I'm pretty sure I won't need to hold my breath waiting to buy yours...

    Incredible mod.

    #737 2 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    it's a pain in the ass to try to record video while you're playing!

    Yep.

    Also in game mode, aint much to show but a few individual lamps flashing. Not the cool light dance that the devs came up with to show it off.

    Who video records a fountain in Las Vegas that is just shooting one or two jets up in the air? You want the full show

    #738 2 years ago

    Has anyone made LED OCD profiles for:

    - The Shadow
    - Judge Dredd
    - Sorcerer

    I've been happily using one in my Shadow on "stock" settings the past year and a half, but since I'm getting new boards for my new games I thought I'd break down and use the game-specific profiles. But doesn't look like anyone's made one yet for any of these games.

    Thanks!

    #739 2 years ago

    The data files that are included in the LED OCD software are simply mappings of lamp numbers to insert names. They help when you're setting up a game because you can change the Shoot Again lamp rather than needing to know that it is Lamp 35, for example. Those three games have not been done yet, but I can probably get to it this weekend. It is also simple to make them, in case you don't feel like waiting on me.

    They don't, however, have any special settings for a game. That is too dependent on what LEDs you're using, personal taste, ambient lighting, etc. If you're willing to spend some time changing these until you find settings you like better, I personally find it fun. If you'd rather not spend the time on it, the default settings really are pretty good in most cases.

    #740 2 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    The data files that are included in the LED OCD software are simply mappings of lamp numbers to insert names. They help when you're setting up a game because you can change the Shoot Again lamp rather than needing to know that it is Lamp 35, for example. Those three games have not been done yet, but I can probably get to it this weekend. It is also simple to make them, in case you don't feel like waiting on me.
    They don't, however, have any special settings for a game. That is too dependent on what LEDs you're using, personal taste, ambient lighting, etc. If you're willing to spend some time changing these until you find settings you like better, I personally find it fun. If you'd rather not spend the time on it, the default settings really are pretty good in most cases.

    Thanks! I can testify that the default values are excellent. That said I think I'm going to try tweaking brightness on a few bulbs and have some fun messing around with it. So if you're able to get to it this weekend I'll look forward to trying them out!

    #741 2 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    So if you're able to get to it this weekend I'll look forward to trying them out!

    Done. You can download the new archive from the website.

    #742 2 years ago
    Quoted from BrokenToken:

    I am so late to this party, but after reading this thread from start-to-finish and watching several of the videos, I'm giving this a try. Order placed!

    Me too, I never got a good feel watching the sample videos so I just ordered one for my TSPP and was blown away by the results. I already had a good mix of ghosting leds that flickered all the time and now they are perfect. Every TSPP needs one of these, its a night and day different.

    3 months later
    #743 2 years ago

    Just installed LED cod in my Iron Man... I thought there was a way in the software to turn off the ocd to see how it looks without it bu5 I could not find it?i know I did it with my gofers

    #744 2 years ago

    The pass through feature is not available on the Stern board. It is not possible due to the way the hardware is designed.

    It is relatively easy to just move cables, though.

    #745 2 years ago

    Ok thanks ... Figured it was something like that . No biggie just wanted to show the effect to someone

    2 months later
    #746 2 years ago

    I must say, this product is really worth my money if you have LED install into your pinball machine, getting it to Singapore is pretty hard as the demand for such machines are pretty low. Herg's boards are nicely build and you have all of the cable and USB for installation. The brightness of the LED does light up the pinball machine very well but you will lose the buttery smoothness from the incandescent light bulb.

    LED OCD brings back the buttery glow for LED bulbs and I can't believe my eyes after installing. The best part is, this board will eliminate any ghosting from LED! Best benefits of this board are, they are easy to install, customisable on individual LEDs and affordable!

    Luckily due to the small living space in Singapore, I only have 2 pinball machine and the cost for these 2 boards are bearable. I cannot imagine if I own 10 machines, I definitely will need to install all of them!

    Shrek
    » YouTube video

    The Simpson Pinball Party
    » YouTube video

    #747 2 years ago
    Quoted from oogiebooogie:

    I must say, this product is really worth my money if you have LED install into your pinball machine, getting it to Singapore is pretty hard as the demand for such machines are pretty low. Herg's boards are nicely build and you have all of the cable and USB for installation. The brightness of the LED does light up the pinball machine very well but you will lose the buttery smoothness from the incandescent light bulb.
    LED OCD brings back the buttery glow for LED bulbs and I can't believe my eyes after installing. The best part is, this board will eliminate any ghosting from LED! Best benefits of this board are, they are easy to install, customisable on individual LEDs and affordable!
    Luckily due to the small living space in Singapore, I only have 2 pinball machine and the cost for these 2 boards are bearable. I cannot imagine if I own 10 machines, I definitely will need to install all of them!
    Shrek
    » YouTube video
    The Simpson Pinball Party
    » YouTube video

    Great to hear from you waaaaay over there. Keep on flippin.

    9 months later
    #748 1 year ago

    Ok - so I'm going to resurrect this thread again...

    So I have been reading about LED OCD and GI OCD and thinking about putting them in my T2.

    Just to verify - if you want your inserts AND playfield GI to work properly with LEDs - it requires one to purchase both LED and GI products?

    If I got this right - why not combine these products in a single board? It seems like it would be much more cost effective and simple to have both on the same board? Why would you want to fix the insert lighting and still have the GI dimming effects look bad?

    #749 1 year ago

    Yup you need both.

    You'd have to ask herg for that answer.

    #750 1 year ago
    Quoted from herg:

    The solutions for controlled lamps and GI are very different from one another, and there is very little overlap. They could both be made into one board, but:
    1. The end cost to manufacture would be about the same as the two separate kits combined.
    2. The board would be bigger and harder to find a place to install.
    3. Customers would no longer have the choice of which kit(s) to purchase. They'd be forced into both or neither.

    So, a good number of people only get one kit or the other. Some will keep incandescent in the GI. Some will turn off the dimming effects. There would not be much benefit to combining them, and I'd still want to keep the separate designs for those who only want one of them.

    BTW, this thread is more active these days:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/club-led-ocd-tips-tricks-thoughts-and-advice

    There are 755 posts in topic. You are on page 15 of 16.

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