(Topic ID: 29684)

FS: LED OCD - Eliminate LED flicker/strobe/ghost - Control brightness


By herg

7 years ago



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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by MustangPaul
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    There are 759 posts in this topic. You are on page 11 of 16.
    #501 5 years ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    the best thing about the IMVE is it is a new machine that still uses the old lamp protocol

    I haven't been following IMVE that closely, so I hadn't seen this info yet. Have a link?

    Quoted from sillyoldelf:

    You can't use this on Transformers LE right?

    That is correct. Any game that uses the new serial controlled LEDs rather than a lamp matrix will not work.

    #502 5 years ago

    Any updates on when the next batch of williams will likely be available?

    #503 5 years ago

    I plan to start a build of them very soon, and it would take around a month to finish them.

    I'm now using the website to handle availability updates and notifications. Any changes are posted there, and you can request email notification when they're ready from the product pages.

    #504 5 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    I haven't been following IMVE that closely, so I hadn't seen this info yet. Have a link?

    Well...big assumption on my part. I'm assuming they run the same machine with a matrix and sockets, and stick leds in the sockets like they have with the ST Pro. Just running with the idea that a rerun doesn't involve any re-engineering.

    #505 5 years ago

    That's great news. Can't wait.

    #506 5 years ago
    Quoted from akm:

    If you do get a chance to play around with the settings on his machine, definitely post your findings (or solutions, hehe) here.

    This ^ was referring to RBION. I finally got a chance to see and tweak a friend's machine. Initially, I did see some patterns that resulted in nasty flicker, and we tracked it down to no-ghosting LEDs. In manual mode, they weren't lighting at all until about 26%, and not smoothly until about 44%. We tried setting B1 for the active profile to 44%, and it did smooth out the flickering pattern, but it also made it difficult to see the intentional blinking. I dropped B1 back down to 30%, and it was a pretty good compromise.

    He said he would swap the bulbs out to standard LEDs without the no-ghosting, and I think that will allow us to drop B1 back down to the default 10% and have nice effects all around. We'll have to wait and see.

    Just to confirm, the easiest place I could see the flickering pattern was right after the match sequence switched over to attract mode. Here it alternates between X's and diamonds on the 3x3 grid. Is that were you saw the nastiness?

    #507 5 years ago

    I swapped out my CT Premiums with normal Supers in my Spider Man and it is waaaayyy better now. I was getting bad strobing with the Premiums even with the 40% B1 setting. The strobing is pretty much gone and the lamps ramp correctly now. Looks great! Totally recommend this product but don't recommend using premiums with it.

    #508 5 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    This ^ was referring to RBION. I finally got a chance to see and tweak a friend's machine. Initially, I did see some patterns that resulted in nasty flicker, and we tracked it down to no-ghosting LEDs. In manual mode, they weren't lighting at all until about 26%, and not smoothly until about 44%. We tried setting B1 for the active profile to 44%, and it did smooth out the flickering pattern, but it also made it difficult to see the intentional blinking. I dropped B1 back down to 30%, and it was a pretty good compromise.
    He said he would swap the bulbs out to standard LEDs without the no-ghosting, and I think that will allow us to drop B1 back down to the default 10% and have nice effects all around. We'll have to wait and see.
    Just to confirm, the easiest place I could see the flickering pattern was right after the match sequence switched over to attract mode. Here it alternates between X's and diamonds on the 3x3 grid. Is that were you saw the nastiness?

    Thanks for taking the time to tinker with this on your friend's machine.

    The issue where I am having the strobing problem is indeed on part of the attract mode. For about 1/3 of it, where the game is lighting up every bulb rapidly, that's where I get the bad flicker. Another 1/3 of the attract mode does a basic stepping pattern where it lights random bulbs on 100% solid then 100% off, so no problems there. Likewise, the last 1/3 of the attract mode does a nice wave motion back and forth across the playfield, and it lets the bulbs fade in and out smoothly. Obviously that is fine, since the OCD especially excels in those situations. Keep in mind the part I am having a problem with strobes/flickers intentionally and it does this with standard incandescent bulbs, but with the LEDs I have it's even more noticeable.

    I will have to try some CoinTaker Super Brights. That's what I had put in my last three Sterns that had this board. In RBION, I used the same clear-domed, two-LED model that I used for GI. I wanted to see how the lights would work using the same bulbs above and below the playfield, just like with how a game is normally configured using incandescents. It actually looks good for the most part, but I've been meaning to start color matching anyway, so in the process I'll get some Super Bright CT bulbs for the inserts that have an obvious problem (like the tic-tac-toe board, that's the biggest offender in the attract sequence).

    #509 5 years ago
    Quoted from SealClubber:

    don't recommend using premiums with it.

    Agreed. As I've always said, it really is designed to be best used with plain LED bulbs.

    Quoted from akm:

    Thanks for taking the time to tinker with this on your friend's machine.

    My friend's machine (RBION) is now my machine! I've just started swapping the Premiums that are in it for Comet Frosted 5050s, which are basically the same as CT Supers. These settings are getting really close, in my opinion:
    14 14 14 24 40 40 60 85 ; Delay = 3

    If you care to give them a try, I think they'll help yours as well.

    #510 5 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    Agreed. As I've always said, it really is designed to be best used with plain LED bulbs.

    My friend's machine (RBION) is now my machine! I've just started swapping the Premiums that are in it for Comet Frosted 5050s, which are basically the same as CT Supers. These settings are getting really close, in my opinion:
    14 14 14 24 40 40 60 85 ; Delay = 3
    If you care to give them a try, I think they'll help yours as well.

    Awesome!! Did you end up trading something? Either way, it's a great game. Enjoy it!

    #511 5 years ago

    Yeah, I traded the LOTR for it. Between family and OCD, I wasn't finding much time to play, so committing to a game of LOTR didn't happen very often. I was happy to see it go to a great guy, and I have had my eye on that RBION for a while now.

    #512 5 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    Yeah, I traded the LOTR for it. Between family and OCD, I wasn't finding much time to play, so committing to a game of LOTR didn't happen very often. I was happy to see it go to a great guy, and I have had my eye on that RBION for a while now.

    This is the EXACT reason I got rid of LOTR. There are times I wish I had it back, but I bet if I did, I would just have the same issue with it again...and mine was set up pretty hard.

    #513 5 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    Yeah, I traded the LOTR for it. Between family and OCD, I wasn't finding much time to play, so committing to a game of LOTR didn't happen very often. I was happy to see it go to a great guy, and I have had my eye on that RBION for a while now.

    Cool! RBION can be a pretty long playing game too if it's set a certain way.. On the other hand though, it can absolutely destroy you at the same time. It's unique in that regard, haha.

    #514 5 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    Yeah, I traded the LOTR for it. Between family and OCD, I wasn't finding much time to play, so committing to a game of LOTR didn't happen very often. I was happy to see it go to a great guy, and I have had my eye on that RBION for a while now.

    You guys are unbelievable. Horse trading like gypsies in a carnival parking lot. At any rate, that's the sexiest RBION in the world. Enjoy!

    #515 5 years ago

    I was gonna say, herg, where did you make room for another game?

    That LOTR was really, really nice too.. ah well, it's not as though there aren't 3943948 others in the area to play.

    -Cyan

    #516 5 years ago
    Quoted from Cyan:

    I was gonna say, herg, where did you make room for another game?
    That LOTR was really, really nice too.. ah well, it's not as though there aren't 3943948 others in the area to play.
    -Cyan

    Something tells me you might see this LOTR again soon

    #517 5 years ago
    Quoted from jints56:

    Something tells me you might see this LOTR again soon

    I just hope it's not in a FS thread.

    In case anyone reading this was hoping for an update on the progress of OCD kits, the GI OCD boards have arrived, but about half of the fuse holder clips were installed the wrong way. I'll have to desolder and rotate them myself. Cables should be here any day, and I'll start contacting people.

    #518 5 years ago

    Thanks! I am very eager to order some.

    #519 5 years ago

    I put my system 11 board in whirlwind. The results are just awesome. Great job herg!!

    #520 5 years ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    Well...big assumption on my part. I'm assuming they run the same machine [Iron Man Vault] with a matrix and sockets, and stick leds in the sockets like they have with the ST Pro. Just running with the idea that a rerun doesn't involve any re-engineering.

    Looks like you were right.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pictures-of-the-new-ironman-ve#post-1771145

    #521 5 years ago

    I thought you had to sign up now to website to be notified on first come first serve basis or is there still a pre-order list?

    I was on the pre-order list but never got contacted even though there was surplus so not sure what to do now. Love my Stern ones so much, would it help if I went down on one knee and begged

    #523 5 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    I just hope it's not in a FS thread.
    In case anyone reading this was hoping for an update on the progress of OCD kits, the GI OCD boards have arrived, but about half of the fuse holder clips were installed the wrong way. I'll have to desolder and rotate them myself. Cables should be here any day, and I'll start contacting people.

    Great news, been on the old list for awhile now and can't wait to get it for my JM!

    #524 5 years ago
    Quoted from sillyoldelf:

    I thought you had to sign up now to website to be notified on first come first serve basis or is there still a pre-order list?
    I was on the pre-order list but never got contacted even though there was surplus so not sure what to do now. Love my Stern ones so much, would it help if I went down on one knee and begged

    If I missed you, I apologize. I have tried my best to handle the list fairly, but it turned out to be a real chore to manage.

    There are still a good number of names on a "pre-order" list for the GI OCD once I finally have them ready. Anyone on that list, I'm going to try to give first shot at the new batch. At this point, only the GI OCD has a "pre-order" list.

    After early April, I stopped accepting names to the "pre-order" list, and started using the website notifications. This would be where first-come, first-served is applicable.

    #525 5 years ago
    Quoted from Hougie:

    I put my system 11 board in Whirlwind. The results are just awesome. Great job herg!!

    Wait, what?! System 11 board? Did I miss something in this thread?

    #526 5 years ago

    yah dude, there's ocd for sys 11 & sys 9

    #527 5 years ago
    Quoted from Kneissl:

    yah dude, there's ocd for sys 11 & sys 9

    Ahhh.. OK, I see now--it's just the WPC boardset. I didn't realize the same board would work with DE *and* System 11 (I thought it was just DE). Now that I have a System 11 game, I might have to try it.

    #528 5 years ago

    The same board works in WPC, Sys11, Sys9, and DE games. There are two different cables sets, one for WPC, another that works with Sys11, Sys9, and DE. There was a guy a while back who was planning to build his own cables to try the board in a Sys7 game, but I haven't heard from him in a while.

    Stern LED OCD and GI OCD are obviously completely different board designs.

    #529 5 years ago

    Herg:

    I have a wh2o that the GI pulses when both flippers are pressed. Almost like a blink of the GI. Would the. GI OCD board help with that. I get 4.93V to the board and I have all LEDs in the machine.

    #530 5 years ago

    I have resisted converting my high end pins to led due to the problems this product reportedly fixes. Damn, I'm running out of excuses.

    #531 5 years ago
    Quoted from John_in_NC:

    I have resisted converting my high end pins to led due to the problems this product reportedly fixes. Damn, I'm running out of excuses.

    i hate to sound like a shill, but this product is fantastic. give it a try on one of your machines. (the only downside is you will then realize you need it for all of them! )

    #532 5 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    i hate to sound like a shill, but this product is fantastic. give it a try on one of your machines. (the only downside is you will then realize you need it for all of them! )

    +1

    I just finished setting up a board for my ST Pro. It required different profiles on a bunch of the inserts due to the nature of what they do during the game and how fast their native flashing rates are. All done and the thing looks freaking amazing. CANNOT rate this thing highly enough.

    Pumped about getting it into IMVE!!

    #533 5 years ago
    Quoted from judremy:

    Herg:
    I have a wh2o that the GI pulses when both flippers are pressed. Almost like a blink of the GI. Would the. GI OCD board help with that. I get 4.93V to the board and I have all LEDs in the machine.

    I can't confidently answer that question since it depends on what the cause of your problem is.

    First, 4.93V to where? Are you talking about the 5V digital power? If so, it's unrelated. Is it all of the GI, or just a string (or multiple strings)?

    If the flippers firing are dragging down the GI voltage enough that you see the GI blink, especially if it's LEDs, you have other problems.

    It could, however, be a poor connection somewhere or a problem with your power driver board. Since the GI OCD completely bypasses the power driver board, it could actually eliminate blinks due to some of those sorts of problems.

    #534 5 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    I can't confidently answer that question since it depends on what the cause of your problem is.
    First, 4.93V to where? Are you talking about the 5V digital power? If so, it's unrelated. Is it all of the GI, or just a string (or multiple strings)?
    If the flippers firing are dragging down the GI voltage enough that you see the GI blink, especially if it's LEDs, you have other problems.
    It could, however, be a poor connection somewhere or a problem with your power driver board. Since the GI OCD completely bypasses the power driver board, it could actually eliminate blinks due to some of those sorts of problems.

    The 4.93V was at the 5V test point on the power driver board where the GI plugs into. It is the entire GI. You can see the backbox blink the same way. I am going to try reseating the GI cables in the backbox.

    Also, what would I need to do to have the lights above the machine use this as well? The waterfall ones.

    #535 5 years ago

    5V on TP2, J114, or J117 would all be unrelated to GI blinking.

    If all of them blink at the same time, it's most likely a problem with the input power connector, J115. Another less likely possibility would be that the input voltage is getting pulled down due to flippers drawing more power than expected. GI OCD might help with the first problem, but you shouldn't buy it expecting it to.

    I'm not terribly familiar with how the topper lights are controlled, but I believe it's a separate board, similar to the ramps in CFTBL. In that case, the original controller board would likely need modifications to do what you want.

    #536 5 years ago

    I just got my board in the mail today and installed it right away. It's simply awesome. After watching the YouTube videos I was very skeptical of it at first, but it truly is something that must be seen in person. My clearcoated FGY is even more cool now with this mod installed. Tron will be next, I just need to hold off for a bit with IMVE on order. Nice work Herg.

    #537 5 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    5V on TP2, J114, or J117 would all be unrelated to GI blinking.
    If all of them blink at the same time, it's most likely a problem with the input power connector, J115. Another less likely possibility would be that the input voltage is getting pulled down due to flippers drawing more power than expected. GI OCD might help with the first problem, but you shouldn't buy it expecting it to.
    I'm not terribly familiar with how the topper lights are controlled, but I believe it's a separate board, similar to the ramps in CFTBL. In that case, the original controller board would likely need modifications to do what you want.

    I know we are just brainstorming, but how would the flippers both being pressed at the same time be related to J115?

    I want to get a board for my LOTR to switch it to LEDs at some point, but if this could get rid of the blinking I am seeing on my WH2O GI, that would be better and more needed.

    #538 5 years ago
    Quoted from judremy:

    I know we are just brainstorming, but how would the flippers both being pressed at the same time be related to J115?
    I want to get a board for my LOTR to switch it to LEDs at some point, but if this could get rid of the blinking I am seeing on my WH2O GI, that would be better and more needed.

    I'm not really sure, but my guess is that it's more related to the 6.8V AC GI input than the 5V DC digital. Bottom line, I would not count on GI OCD fixing that problem. It is intended to be a modification to a working system rather than a way to bypass problems.

    I would suggest starting a TECH thread to work through the GI issue since it would get more exposure that way.

    #539 5 years ago

    Will the Stern board work on the new Ironman VE seeing as it using LEDs?

    #540 5 years ago

    yes. IMVE is using socketed LEDs, still on a lamp matrix, same as the original IM. So still exactly what the board was designed for..traditional sockets with replacement LEDs.

    #541 5 years ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    yes. IMVE is using socketed LEDs, still on a lamp matrix, same as the original IM. So still exactly what the board was designed for..traditional sockets with replacement LEDs.

    Well, we think so, at least. They are still using the lamp matrix, but Stern says they did something to improve the lightshow. I'm not sure exactly what that means. I am not aware of anyone actually testing an OCD board in IMVE yet.

    #542 5 years ago

    Somebody's got to try it in Ironman VE Should be epic if it works.

    #543 5 years ago

    Unless Stern changed the low level driver that control the lamp matrix, it should work fine in IMVE.

    It's still the same hardware, so no issues there. The piggyback boards that are on the connectors (someone posted pics in another thread) are the same as the ones in Star Trek Pro. Those boards are simply pullup / pulldown resistors that are very similar to the ones I have next to J3 and J4 on the LED OCD board. Their purpose, on my board at least, is to minimize ghosting due to leakage current through the transistors.

    Since the same basic circuit is already on the LED OCD, you should remove those boards from a Star Trek Pro or IMVE if you install an LED OCD.

    #544 5 years ago

    Thanks for this last post, Herg! I just got my second LED OCD today, and was trying to figure out how to install it in the Trek!!

    #545 5 years ago
    Quoted from ignusfast:

    was trying to figure out how to install it in the Trek

    Yeah, I need to add it to the install instructions. Sorry about that.

    #546 5 years ago

    Are there any pics on how to install in star trek or indeed Iron Man VE - not clear on what board should be removed and what happens to the wiring?

    #547 5 years ago
    Quoted from sillyoldelf:

    Are there any pics on how to install in Star Trek or indeed Iron Man VE - not clear on what board should be removed and what happens to the wiring?

    I don't have either of those games myself, and I don't have any pictures of the installation. Once installed, it would look like any other SAM game, though.

    The attached picture shows the boards to remove, outlined in red. In previous machines, the connectors outlined in yellow were connected directly to the power driver board without the "red" boards in between.

    260112-i.jpg

    #548 5 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    Because of the way LED OCD redrives the matrix, there is no rate that cannot be smoothed. It may take some creative thinking or even new firmware, but ANY possible input can be made into a smooth output.
    The biggest challenge is often getting it to generate smooth output when you want it but keeping blinking when it's necessary to indicate a shot or something like that. There may be cases of this in RBION, and I'm not familiar enough with the game to know. I know of one other person who has one with intentions of putting it in a RBION, and I play at his house fairly regularly. If there's an issue, I'll know soon enough. I'll also take my laptop over there next time I go, and I'm sure he'll let me play around with settings.
    In general, here's the approach I'd suggest:
    1. Make sure that all brightness values you've chosen light smoothly when lamps are being steadily lit at that brightness. This is best done using the manual mode built into LED OCD and stepping through each brightness while observing what the lamps look like. If there's an issue here, it's usually on the low end. Some types of LEDs (especially non-ghosting) have to be set fairly high before they will light smoothly.
    2. Go back to controlled mode and try increasing the delay setting. This increases the time between changes in the output brightness, and as a result, will reduce abrupt changes. This may cause the lamps to react too slowly if overused, so watch for cases where lamps are not blinking as much as they should be.
    3. It there is a particular pattern that looks bad, figure out which brightness values are being used. You can do this by setting all of the brightness values to 0, then setting one of them to a high number. Example:

    If the lamp this is applied to lights up at all, you know that B5 is being used. Repeat this for all 8 B* values, and you'll know what the range is, and you'll then be able to figure out how big of a swing they're being put through. You can then adjust the "shape" of the brightness ramp accordingly. For example, if B3 - B5 are being used, you can make their values closer to each other in order to reduce the swing.

    Untitled-912.png 2 KB

    Would you care to share those settings? I just purchased one for my RBION and would like to have a good starting point. Thanks! Looking forward to it!

    #549 5 years ago
    Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

    Would you care to share those settings? I just purchased one for my RBION and would like to have a good starting point. Thanks! Looking forward to it!

    Quoted from herg:

    14 14 14 24 40 40 60 85 ; Delay = 3

    The above is what I'm using for mine at the moment. I still need to find the time to do some more tweaking, but it looks pretty good with the above. What seems important for the slower fading sequences on RBION is that B1 - B3 are the same and B5/B6 are the same. This is because during those fades, there are times where the output is bouncing between two values and if there is a big difference between the two, it shows up as a flicker.

    #550 5 years ago

    Herg,

    I just bought an LED OCD for my LOTR and wanted to know if you have any special settings for the Palantir with using the Palantir v5 that jrobinso99 made. Switching it all to LEDs soon...

    Also, does this do anything for flashers?

    There are 759 posts in this topic. You are on page 11 of 16.

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