(Topic ID: 157589)

Led lights on a EM


By Spider3582

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by dasvis
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    There are 58 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 3 years ago

    Just curious what people think of LED lights in a EM game. I don't like it . I want my games to look like they were intended to back in the day but I know some people who say it brings a modern touch to a old game

    #2 3 years ago

    They generally look terrible, but if it keeps the paint on the backglass another decade, I can tolerate some retro-style WW ones.

    #3 3 years ago

    We are redoing our lens on our 6mm Retros, improving it even further!

    Id recommend trying a few, and seeing if it gives you the look you want....we think so!

    New product should arrive in 4 weeks!

    #4 3 years ago

    No thanks

    #5 3 years ago

    WW dome style work a treat. I have used yellow under inserts to give that soft look too!
    Usually I leave the GI as 44's so it suits the era and LED everything else.

    #6 3 years ago

    Bon Voyage to those old hot incandescents

    Bon_Voyage_backglass_lit_4_(resized).jpg

    (EDIT) For visual comparison, here is the photo from IPDB, which is presumably lit as original. Depending again on a lot of parameters concerning the lighting and the camera settings, what you see will vary. But regardless, you can see evidence of spots with or without LEDs. Now if the pink and blue ones stray too far from what should be original, you could just put in the retro warm white frosted from Comet, like the others.

    tsv1860_pinballowners.com_3_(resized).jpg

    -2
    #7 3 years ago

    And Hello! to hot spots in the artwork.

    #8 3 years ago
    Quoted from CactusJack:

    And Hello! to hot spots in the artwork.

    It is difficult to photograph, but it is not like that really. Doesn't look much different than with the incandescents to me. Here is a before photo. There is a difference in these two pics for sure. I have been experimenting with my DSLR trying to figure out a way to get a good photo of an LED-lit machine that looks more closely to what the eye sees.

    (EDIT) I will admit I added a bit extra to the belt buckle. I felt it was worth it. I think it is the highlight of the machine.

    Bon_Voyage_back_glass_2_(resized).jpg

    Bon_Voyage_Bambi_belt_buckle_(resized).jpg

    #9 3 years ago

    LED's in the GI of an EM look unnatural & especially pop bumpers. Thumbs down.
    Maybe in backglass, but it depends on the pin.

    #10 3 years ago

    Same problem with the playfield - it is hard to get a photo where the camera doesn't react to the LEDs by blowing them out. I will keep trying to get a good photo. This is the best one I have as far as the lighting, unfortunately I messed up the focus on this one. It isn't the same, no doubt. But for me it is good. Your mileage may vary. As far as the pop bumpers and all the inserts, I don't see much difference at all.

    playfield_7_(resized).jpg

    #11 3 years ago

    While I wasnt a big fan of LEDs, I have grown to like the color rendering of warm white LEDs vs the very orange glow of incandescents. The warm whites are typically "whiter" than orangish. But for me, it's all about the quality of light spread of the LED for backglasses. I have found I like the coin taker premium frosted to do the best job to be similar to the old school bulbs. Not a fan of seeing LEDs for GI on the playfield. But the do make colored inserts look better as well as the clear inserts on newer games.

    #12 3 years ago
    Quoted from CactusJack:

    And Hello! to hot spots in the artwork.

    The thing with LEDs is when a picture is taken it looks like hot spots. But in reality they are not there. Here is leds in my EM under different camera light imaging levels. But none of them really show how they look in person.

    IMG_20160126_180726343_(resized).jpg

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    #13 3 years ago

    LED's all the way. Sorry, but heat is the #1 enemy of backglasses, playfield plastics, and inserts, and anything I can do to keep them from being damaged is what I'm going to do. It's a small price to pay for being able to keep them turned on for hours and not having to worry about whether I'm going to see a scorched bumper cap or sagging insert.

    I use the warm whites from Coin Takers, and they're the way to go. The cheap ones do look like crap, but the warm whites are fine. Sometimes the domes on the warm whites look funky in back glasses, so I also have some of the ones with no dome for there. I also use those on pop bumpers.

    #14 3 years ago

    A guy told me the other day that he was going to LED his early SS games and I told him that unless he really wanted to spend hundreds of dollars and liked the looks, he didn't have to do it. His games aren't going to be on for eight hours a day/ 7 days a week like they used to when they were on route. Even though I like the looks of LEDs, I don't think they are needed for every situation.

    #15 3 years ago

    I agree...they arent needed everywhere, and in some games and for some peoples taste this is true.
    I have several games that are still incandescent because I think they look better too!

    However, what I wish to share is what looks "wrong".

    Think of going down the bulb aisle at Home Depot or Lowes....so many choices.....
    Simply put, they come in many different watts and therefore brightness.

    For Pins, the LED choices follow the same rules.

    We tend to believe that using only the same bulb in every game is the best way.
    Certainly, buying "kits" has taught us this.
    But look at your home. One doesnt put 100 watt bulbs in our fridge or everywhere.
    Theres a good chance that your TV room has many lights, different brightness, or even dimmer switches.

    So while we will go back and forth on this, it truly is personal taste.
    But Whats wrong, is not realizing that each game is different, each home lighting is different, as well as each person.

    Now add different Vendors and different bulbs....I think we have 14 brightness levels and more, so sometimes the "right bulb" is right in your line of sight. looks bad. Sometimes bulbs are too bright, but looked great in the last game you did.
    Different screening of the plastics, or maybe repros.

    My point is there are many ways to do, many different bulbs and situations.
    Each person, I hope, would judge themselves, but also being aware of these choices, so that there are ways to do it
    differently to each persons taste....

    Sorry about the Rant.

    #16 3 years ago

    LEDs don't look good on every SS game (the GI on IJ and LOTR come to mind), and they look absolutely unnatural and have no place on an EM, IMO.

    There are too many abbreviations in this post.

    #17 3 years ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    I agree...they arent needed everywhere, and in some games and for some peoples taste this is true.
    I have several games that are still incandescent because I think they look better too!
    However, what I wish to share is what looks "wrong".
    Think of going down the bulb aisle at Home Depot or Lowes....so many choices.....
    Simply put, they come in many different watts and therefore brightness.
    For Pins, the LED choices follow the same rules.
    We tend to believe that using only the same bulb in every game is the best way.
    Certainly, buying "kits" has taught us this.
    But look at your home. One doesnt put 100 watt bulbs in our fridge or everywhere.
    Theres a good chance that your TV room has many lights, different brightness, or even dimmer switches.
    So while we will go back and forth on this, it truly is personal taste.
    But Whats wrong, is not realizing that each game is different, each home lighting is different, as well as each person.
    Now add different Vendors and different bulbs....I think we have 14 brightness levels and more, so sometimes the "right bulb" is right in your line of sight. looks bad. Sometimes bulbs are too bright, but looked great in the last game you did.
    Different screening of the plastics, or maybe repros.
    My point is there are many ways to do, many different bulbs and situations.
    Each person, I hope, would judge themselves, but also being aware of these choices, so that there are ways to do it
    differently to each persons taste....
    Sorry about the Rant.

    Agree. I have Leds in all my pins. And have put them in every pin I have ever owned.

    I use various different leds in every pin.
    Superbrights, frosted, cool, warm, flexible, Star etc.

    No standard led kit will ever make a pin look as good as it can. And not everything has to be color matched.

    And as far as costing $100's of dollars. That was years ago. Now you can Led an average pin for $40 or so. Without doing the flashers. $80 total for a full SS pin including the flashlamps.
    You just have to know where to buy them.
    (the source)
    And also adding resistors to them to make them look how you want.
    It's all part of led modding.

    Examples of what I think the is wrong with LEDs. And I don't want to offend the person whos pin this is. I personally just think it could look better. Personal preference.

    The first two pics, my pinbot with leds

    The second two pics, someones pinbot with leds.

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    #18 3 years ago

    Wasn't this thread about EM's getting LED treatment? Just trying to keep on point, we already know about putting LED's in solid state games for the most part.

    Steve

    #19 3 years ago

    We don't give a truck load about solid state's with LEDs. LEDs in an EM are about as advant garde as a Andy Warhol painting and I hate them both. 47's don't get hot enough to mess with a backglass. If they do then why are you leaving on your pins for 16 hours a day? In a home environment the average person might leave their game on for a few hours at most in a given day during peek times. I have a very strong stance on LEDS. Don't use them on EMs. They look like ass.

    #20 3 years ago

    If I were putting an em out on location, I might switch to some leds but not for home use.

    #21 3 years ago

    I've been anti-LED in EMs. Until I played around with them in my Abra Ca Dabra...all GI remained incandescent and the majority of the inserts, too. I colour-matched the red moving spot under the plastics at the top drops and it looks pretty sharp. The backglass had signs that it was starting to peel, so I tried Comet's retros and was pleasantly surprised with the result...great product. In certain situations, I think EMs and LEDs together are acceptable...as long as the GI glow of the incandescent bulb remains the same.

    #22 3 years ago

    For a home game I wouldn't bother, and I agree that it's easy to do "wrong". I've never had more fun playing an EM with LEDs than I would have had on the same game if it had incandescents, as long as the lighting is ok.

    For location games that stay on for hours every day they are nice, especially if the game is going to be in a poorly lit area. If you do it thoughtfully, no casual is even going to think about the lighting. Most are just amazed to be looking at a 40-year-old game working perfectly in a bar. Regulars and "players" mostly just care if it plays well and they can see stuff, for the most part.

    IMO:
    All must be frosted lens
    All must be warm-white (no color-matching)

    I like the Comet 2-LEDs or even Twin 2835s when I know the game is going to be in a dark area.

    CFH recommends the 1-LED frosted Ablaze from PBL for the most economical way to approximate the look of incandescents, and I can confirm that this is a good option. They are dim enough that it can be difficult to tell without looking directly at them. Great for a spot like his where the entire venue already has nice lighting, so making the playfield visible is less of a concern. Only problem is I've gotten more duds per order of these than any other bulbs I've bought. I'm sure Terry would replace them.

    End of the day, I don't really think too much about it either way as long as the game is playing nice, but there is something about the vibe of a clean and nicely maintained game with brand new incandescents that just can't be replicated with anything else. There's just something about it.

    No way to really find out what you like without trying out different options based on your situation/taste.

    #23 3 years ago

    I think some look bad and some look good. My Dodge City, Lucky Strike and World Champ would look terrible with LEDS on the playing field, but my Abra, Pro-Football, Super Soccer, Domino....looked good with the LEDS under the playingfield. And on backglasses, I think most reproductions need LEDS. Seems like most backglasses I've gotten don't let the incandescent light thru like the originals.

    #24 3 years ago

    LEDS on an EM play field requires an Artist. The technology is just too new for anyone to mate it to a Vintage Pinball machine consistently. I insist on Back Glass incandescent except where a flasher is need, the 455 currently available is problematic. I loved the touch of spooky green the Comet LED strips added to the forest of Klondike, but I can see its not desirable for earlier machines.Personally, I'm not going back, a blend of Old-Style incandescents with warm LED looks pleasing to my eyes, the Alpine Mountain plastics really pop. I do not like "Cool" colors,though,they ruin the ambiance.IMG_1344_(resized).JPGIMG_1341_(resized).JPG

    #25 3 years ago

    Here's a few that I've done with the LEDS

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    #26 3 years ago

    I use single LED warm white or Retro LEDs in backbox, Single LED warm white under the inserts and good old #44 bulbs in all the playfield GI. Some places like bonus ladders flicker on and off when the score motor turns. In that case I put the #44 bulbs back in.

    Even cutting back half the bulbs in a game to LEDs makes it a lot cooler when I bring it to a tournament or show and it runs all day long.

    #27 3 years ago

    Not a single game posted in this thread looked GOOD with the lighting choices IMO.

    Colored bulbs should be used STRATEGICALLY - if at all.

    EMs don't have the access problems more advanced modern games have.. so its not even saving you work in the future (the bulb you gotta remove 10 things to get to.. problem).

    I'd experiment with the warms in the backbox.. and maybe key inserts to make them pop.. but not over all and not GI unless you have one of the games with a cleared PF with pure whites.

    #28 3 years ago

    Like many others have said, Mostly for use in the back glass area, and sometimes I use them in the pops but that is about it for me.

    #29 3 years ago

    Even if you don't use them anywhere else, put a warm white under your playfield inserts. Those inserts are so thin and the sockets are so close that it doesn't take much to warm then enough to scorch them or make them get cupped over time.

    #30 3 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Not a single game posted in this thread looked GOOD with the lighting choices IMO.
    Colored bulbs should be used STRATEGICALLY - if at all.
    EMs don't have the access problems more advanced modern games have.. so its not even saving you work in the future (the bulb you gotta remove 10 things to get to.. problem).
    I'd experiment with the warms in the backbox.. and maybe key inserts to make them pop.. but not over all and not GI unless you have one of the games with a cleared PF with pure whites.

    Not certain you get it,read the comments. Extremely difficult to photograph an LED equipped machine but looks great to the Operator. Thats the bottom line.

    #31 3 years ago
    Quoted from Bribo13:

    Like many others have said, Mostly for use in the back glass area, and sometimes I use them in the pops but that is about it for me.

    That is the last place you would want to use them,unless you have a reproduction back glass.

    #32 3 years ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    Not certain you get it,read the comments. Extremely difficult to photograph an LED equipped machine but looks great to the Operator. Thats the bottom line.

    No.. I get it. I know what the effects are of the cameras taking the photo.. and I also know what the effect of the addition of COLOR under the existing art. Plus, I've seen the same style done many times over in games like Pinbot... it looks like crap IMO.

    More intense color isn't always good. 'Clown Puke', 'Skittles lighting' etc all stemmed from the line of thought seen here.

    #33 3 years ago

    I knew this was going to be a fun topic! LOL! About as fun as, "Should I high-tap my machine?" Can you see the LEDs in this game?

    P3063188_(resized).JPG
    The bottom line is, it's your game! Do what you want and be proud!
    It's just a freaking hobby for 99% of us and we are just having fun! Lighten up folks!

    #34 3 years ago

    Wow, the pro-LED crowd is bigger than the no-LED crowd? Am I dreaming?

    As for me, no LEDs.

    However, what about sealing backglasses? I'll admit I'm paranoid of one of my favorite glasses starting to flake (and has always had very very light crackling through parts of the paint, but not as if it's going to flake, smaller rather, is this called "spidering"?), however it seems like people have reasons they say to NOT seal the glass, besides just being an amateur at it and messing it up somehow.

    #35 3 years ago

    I say no to LEDs in ems. It's like mags on a '65 Mustang.

    #36 3 years ago
    Quoted from jodini:

    Lighten up folks!

    Pun intended?

    #37 3 years ago

    I hate the look of LEDs in EMs. But I also understand the need to preserve the games we love. So on location, I let it pass. But in a house, real bulbs.

    #38 3 years ago

    LED lights on a EM

    Tits on a boar

    #39 3 years ago

    I won't add LEDs to an EM. I usually go with 47s to lower the heat. But my Pit Stop came with LEDs behind the backglass and they look OK. If the game comes with them anywhere else they will be removed.

    #40 3 years ago

    From what I understand, the backglasses from BGResto don't let the light pass through like a silk-screened glass would because of the process used to get the colors to 'pop' like they do. I guess you could say it's kind of a trade-off, great looking colors (artwork too) but the translucency isn't as good. So here would be a case where you don't really have much of a choice if you want your glass to look as it should. Because you need the added illumination LED lights can offer over 47's and even 44 incandescent bulbs. This is the information I am getting anyway.

    #41 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballprowess:

    LED lights on a EM
    Tits on a boar

    Look like ass

    #42 3 years ago

    LED'S are great colour enhancers as shown by the Dragon backglass pictures. I like them behind backglasses and under inserts but not above the playfield. As there are many suppliers of LED's you have to choose the right ones , I mainly used frosted dome which dissipates the light nicely.

    #43 3 years ago

    Clown_Puke_(resized).jpg

    #44 3 years ago

    Every time you put LEDs in an EM, God kills a kitten.kitten_(resized).jpg

    #45 3 years ago
    Quoted from SirScott:

    Every time you put LEDs in an EM, God kills a kitten.kitten_(resized).jpg

    I'm putting LEDs in all my EM's now!

    vid1900...love the clown!

    #46 3 years ago

    This I pasted from the Silverball museum web site...May help on this subject..They sell these on their site.

    Retro Style LED Lamps

    These are the same LEDs used at the world famous Silverball Museum in Asbury Park, New Jersey. We tried all the rest and finally had these made exclusively for us. Best retro warm white color on the market! These super bright LEDs make #44 and #47 incandescent bulbs obsolete. Cool burning – protects your backglasses and playfield plastics by minimizing the risk of heat damage commonly caused by traditional bulbs. Power consumption is approximately five times less than incandescent lamps! Long lasting. 6.3 volts, bayonet base. In early 1980s Bally & Stern digital games without upgraded lamp driver boards LEDs may flicker in computer controlled applications such as playfield insert lighting. LEDs do not flicker in general illumination circuits.

    #47 3 years ago
    Quoted from Mercury:

    This I pasted from the Silverball museum web site...May help on this subject..They sell these on their site.
    Retro Style LED Lamps
    These are the same LEDs used at the world famous Silverball Museum in Asbury Park, New Jersey. We tried all the rest and finally had these made exclusively for us. Best retro warm white color on the market! These super bright LEDs make #44 and #47 incandescent bulbs obsolete. Cool burning – protects your backglasses and playfield plastics by minimizing the risk of heat damage commonly caused by traditional bulbs. Power consumption is approximately five times less than incandescent lamps! Long lasting. 6.3 volts, bayonet base. In early 1980s Bally & Stern digital games without upgraded lamp driver boards LEDs may flicker in computer controlled applications such as playfield insert lighting. LEDs do not flicker in general illumination circuits.

    Yes...I tried those in my IJ GI, and it made everything look yellow and washed out. There is no LED substitute for the warm glow of an incandescent bulb.

    #48 3 years ago

    You are right Boob, and what I have been sharing from my experience, is of course that its everyones taste.
    In addition some games can look good...not all. They simply werent designed to look like they should with any LED!
    But also, when one has an opinion that All are bad without ever trying, or trying only silverball, or only me, or another vendor, they may not be seeing the full picture.There are many bulb differences.

    Should one go out and buy all the different ones from everyone to test? Hell No!

    I think one can look at the game and almost always know. If the art is light colored or white predominant, if the games bulbs are visible, do to the layout.....Very hard to look right...The best I know of is our 6mm. To someone else, their view of "Whats best" may be different.

    So perhaps instead of No always, or Yes Always, we can agree on a game by game understanding, and a person by person
    acknowledgement of their taste.

    A compromise, rather then a disagreement.

    #49 3 years ago
    Quoted from Spider3582:

    Just curious what people think of LED lights in a EM game. I don't like it . I want my games to look like they were intended to back in the day but I know some people who say it brings a modern touch to a old game

    They look stupid and often have unintended consequences like all of the inserts ghosting whenever the score motor moves, which is like every 4 seconds.

    I'm ok with them behind the backglass, at least in a location/museum situation where they are on all the time. I've never found bulb heat to be an issue at home where they are on - even in heavy use - a fraction of the time.

    #50 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    They look stupid and often have unintended consequences like all of the inserts ghosting whenever the score motor moves, which is like every 4 seconds.

    Do you see this in specific years or manufacturers?

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