(Topic ID: 49434)

LED lights in Bally 1978 SS game - new board required??????


By rufessor

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 78 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by rufessor
  • Topic is favorited by 23 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 5 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

inlinecorrector.png
socket.jpg
PS.jpg
wiringHarness.jpg
BackSideOfBackboxLampBoard.jpg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider jags.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#26 6 years ago

This thread is exactly what I've been looking for. I've been working on putting LEDs in my Bally Star Trek. Backbox and GI have been no problem and work fine. It's the controlled lighting in the inserts that I had the flickering problem. I read somewhere else that a 1K resistor across the socket will work so I dug through my box of resistors and found a 470 ohm, a 1.8K, a 3.3K which all worked and stopped the flickering. Also tried a 9.1K and a 22K but they did not work. I guess they had too much resistance.

I've been trying to figure out how and why using a resistor across the socket would work and this thread finally answered my question. Now I understand what's going on with the circuitry on the lamp driver board. Thanks for the explanation!

I've now gone ahead and ordered 100 1K resistors off of ebay. Set me back an entire $1.49 including shipping! Once I get them I'll fire up the old soldering iron and get to work. It will also give me a chance to fix a few of the loose sockets that have been bugging me too.

What I don't get is why the guys like Cointaker don't offer a bulb with the resistor already built in? They offer non ghosting bulbs that have some type of circuit built into the bulb. What is it that they put into a non ghosting bulb anyway? It would seem really easy to put a resistor into an LED and would make it real easy on those that don't feel comfortable in soldering or adding another board to their pin. It would be a great new money maker for the LED sellers also.

Thanks!

#30 6 years ago
Quoted from Pac-Fan:

If you're willing to wait a few months, my kit will hopefully be done and save you all that soldering under the playfield But yeah, that the cheapest (money) but most expensive (labor) fix for it.

Yes your board looks very promising! But for less than $1 I don't mind doing the labor. That's half the fun owning these pins anyway! Plus I will also be doing the same to my Game Plan "Star Trip" cocktail table pin. It has the same problem as the Bally's as it also uses a similar circuit in the lamp driver board. The resistor fixes the problem for those units also.

Do you know what type of resistance a standard 47 or 44 bulb has? I would figure you would want to use just the right amount of resistance to keep that SCR latched other wise you would just be wasting more energy than needed. I guess the 1K should be just fine although the 3K seemed to work also.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

4 weeks later
#32 6 years ago

Well I finished the LED job in My Bally "Star Trek" and I just would like to share how I installed the resistors on the sockets. First we all know that the Bally lamp holders are pretty bad. They get loose after time and start to go intermittent. To fix them you need to solder the socket to the bracket and solder the wire to the "nub". Also to make the LEDs work without flickering you need to solder a 1K resistor across the terminals of the socket. So I decided to kill 2 birds with one stone. Look at how I soldered in the resistor to the lamp socket:

// Error: Image 118977 not found //

As you can see I soldered the socket to the bracket at the edge where they meet. I also used this as one point to solder one end of the resistor. The other end of the resistor I soldered directly to the socket "nib" AND also the tab where the wire is soldered to. This creates a solid conection between the "nib", wire, and the other end of the resistor. Lamps are all now very solid and the LEDs work perfectly with no flicker!

#36 6 years ago
Quoted from rufessor:

I wonder if it would be possible to trace these wires back to the control board and somehow put a resistor in line there?

Quoted from Pac-Fan:

That's basically what my boards will do. However it is not a 1 minute mod. It took me 3 hours to bend, wrap, cut and solder about 70 resistors across every terminal to the destination on a inline adaptor on each of the board on my prototype -- About the same time it would take to do it at each socket.

Yes, you can put the resistors in at the board but, if you don't want to spend two evenings like I did soldering 50+ resistors then I would definitely consider Pac-Fan's board. Each lamp would need it's own resistor so you would still need to be soldering a lot of resistors either at the board or on the sockets. For me I needed to do solder work on most of my sockets anyways because most of them were loose and giving me problems. Soldering in the resistors at the same time was easy to do and solved two problems at the same time.

Quoted from rufessor:

Anyone know where these wires come from- is it in fact 1 wire/bulb coming off a control board?

That is what the lamp driver board does in your pin. Yes it is one wire per bulb and the control circuits and connectors are all found on that lamp driver board. If you don't know what you're doing however, I wouldn't be messing with that lamp driver board! Just get Pac-Fans adapter board or spend the time to solder in the resistors at each socket. Lot easier and safer than messing with the lamp driver board.

#37 6 years ago
Quoted from rufessor:

Here is a link to a video I took last night

Rufessor, Just noticed in your video that you have a buzzing sound in attract mod that changes with the changing of the display from hi score to last score. I had the same problem with my Bally "Star Trek" machine. Seems that it is a ground loop problem with the sound board as once I unscrewed the sound board mounting screws the buzz went away. Decided to isolate the sound board from the mounts by using a thin nylon washer as a spacer and also 8-32 nylon screws to mount the board. Solved the buzz problem. I'm an audio engineer and I'm very familiar with ground loop buzzes. You may want to try that and see if it works for you.

#39 6 years ago
Quoted from rufessor:

Since I will be rebuilding the connectors and even replacing some of the CAPs on the power supply board I figured I would ask if there was a good reason not to do the mod there.

You keep referring to the "power supply board". Do you mean the Voltage Regulator/Solenoid Driver board or the power supply board located above the transformer? Neither of these boards are related to the work you would need to do on the lamp driver board regarding adding the resistors to stop the LED flickering. The mod cannot be done on either of those boards.

Quoted from rufessor:

Anyone know where these wires come from- is it in fact 1 wire/bulb coming off a control board? Seems like it should be since they are in fact controlled independently. I just have not a clue where to look!

I assumed from this statement that you had really no experience in electronic circuitry. But then you make this statement:

Quoted from rufessor:

I have zero issue basically rebuilding a board from scratch with chips and a soldering iron so I have no hesitation about diving in and adding some resistors.

This is very conflicting information. If you have no issue in rebuilding a board you should have the expertise to read schematics and understand what board does what. If you don't even have a clue where to look how can you go about rebuilding a circuit board successfully?

Moding the electronics of a circuit board is not an easy thing to do unless you now what you're doing and understand basic electronics. You said:

Quoted from rufessor:

you could theoretically put a resistor in series there

Soldering a resistor across the two contacts of the lamp socket is not putting it in series. It is putting it in parallel with the bulb. To do the same on the board you need to do what Pac-Fan has done. Make a resistor array that taps into each lamp's circuit on one end and connects them to a common point on the other. That's the problem that Pac-Fan is having with offering his board. It may be difficult to find a common point that is easily accessible and can be connected to without soldering. Also different games are set up differently so it can be difficult to find the correct common point. He wants to make it as easy as possible to use his board especially for those with no electronic skills.

Since you are doing a restore project on your playfield I don't see what the problem is adding the resistors to each lamp socket. If you may be removing all the sockets off the board anyways, it would be real easy to add the resistors at that point of time. Plus, as Pac-Fan mentioned, you can still revert back to incandescents at any time even with the resistors there. If you are trying to keep your game "original" any type of modification to the board would even be a worse thing to do. Best bet for you would be to go with Pac-Fan's board once he has them available. Looks like it would be an easy plug-n-play option with maybe just one solder connection needing to be done at the common point of the controlled lamps.

1 month later
#41 6 years ago

If I were to disassemble the wiring harness from the light control board, and add a resistor to the end of each independently controlled light (which must be a single unique wire- correct) and then simply solder a connector onto the other end of the resistor and plug it back into the harness...

That description is called wiring in series. That will not work to solve your problem. The LED may or may not light depending on the resistance and would do nothing to fix the flicker problem. You need to wire the resistor in parallel with the bulb to make it work. Look at my diagram below and it should clarify the difference immediately!

PS.jpg

#47 6 years ago

Yes you can do it as you pictured. But to do each bulb circuit it would be a lengthy process. As you said you would first have to figure out which wire from which harness is running each one of the controlled lamps. You then could remove that connector from the harness, cut of the wire, strip the wire, add one end of a resistor, crimp on a new connector and insert it pack into the harness. Once you have done that for each of about 30-50 lamp circuits you would then need to tie all the other ends of the resistors together and wire them to the common point which you would still have to find somewhere.

What you end up with is a very time consuming process that leaves you with a mass of resistors protruding from the wiring harness which would really look like a massive circuit board hack job! And, if you somehow made a mistake and connected a resistor to an incorrect wire, you risk damaging something else on the board.

In my opinion it is a lot easier to simply solder a resistor across each bulb socket. It takes less than 2 minutes to do per bulb, it's easy to locate the bulbs you need to do, there is lots of room to solder, once it's done you barely can even see the resistor is there on the socket and it looks like it supposed to be there just like the diodes and capacitors found on the switches and solenoids under the playfield. If you want to revert back to incandescents you don't have to do anything at all and if you really want to restore the machine back to original all you have to do is snip out each resistor off the socket. As a bonus the solder job on the sockets will probably improve their reliability especially on the cheap Bally sockets. Most important when you open the backbox it won't look like a massive hack job has been done to board.

Hope this info helps with your LED mod!

#50 6 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

All 3 ways have been done
and they all work well

Yes any of these 3 techniques will work.

Quoted from rufessor:

I am going to try to do this in a way that does not look like a massive hack! I will post pics!

What ever works for you is the best for you!! I would love to see pics when you get it done!

For me in my situation since I had to access each lamp socket anyways to install the LED I figured it would be the perfect time to also service each socket. Power down, remove the original bulb, clean socket with a "socket eraser", solder to fix bad socket design and also install resistor, install new LED, power up and check for proper operation. Each socket about 2-5 minutes depending on how hard the socket was to get to. Clean looking mod and very easy to do! The LEDs look great in my Bally Star Trek!

1 month later
#55 5 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Would the No-Flix Bulbs from Pinball Center, or Pinball decals work?
Sorry....i didnt read the whole thread if this was covered.....

Art, Please read the thread. There is a lot of good info that I contributed to this discussion. No-Flix will not solve the problem these early Bally games have. You need to install a resistor. It would be pretty easy to make a LED with the resistor already installed but I'm not sure if the demand would be there as there are only so many of these older Bally pins around with this issue.

Let me know if you have any more questions about this as I've researched it a lot.

Thanks!

2 weeks later
#58 5 years ago
Quoted from ironmaidenpin:

I have same problem with bally

Quoted from ironmaidenpin:

are we using 1/4 watt 470ohm resistors?

Did you read the thread? The info is all there. I did notice that some of my pics disappeared probably with the forum update that just was done. Here is the pic that was previously posted:

socket.jpg

And here is the info that went along with the pic:

Quoted from Jags:

Well I finished the LED job in My Bally "Star Trek" and I just would like to share how I installed the resistors on the sockets. First we all know that the Bally lamp holders are pretty bad. They get loose after time and start to go intermittent. To fix them you need to solder the socket to the bracket and solder the wire to the "nub". Also to make the LEDs work without flickering you need to solder a 1K resistor across the terminals of the socket. So I decided to kill 2 birds with one stone. Look at how I soldered in the resistor to the lamp socket.
As you can see I soldered the socket to the bracket at the edge where they meet. I also used this as one point to solder one end of the resistor. The other end of the resistor I soldered directly to the socket "nib" AND also the tab where the wire is soldered to. This creates a solid conection between the "nib", wire, and the other end of the resistor. Lamps are all now very solid and the LEDs work perfectly with no flicker!

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 30.00
Electronics
Third Coast Pinball
From: $ 20.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 16.00
Electronics
Yorktown Parts and Equip
2,000
Machine - For Sale
Blaine, TN
$ 149.95
Boards
Allteksystems
From: $ 155.00
$ 12.00
$ 21.00

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider jags.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside