(Topic ID: 49434)

LED lights in Bally 1978 SS game - new board required??????


By rufessor

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 78 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by rufessor
  • Topic is favorited by 22 Pinsiders

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inlinecorrector.png
socket.jpg
PS.jpg
wiringHarness.jpg
BackSideOfBackboxLampBoard.jpg

There are 78 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 5 years ago

Wil post pic for sure...

I am almost over the hump on the fairly detailed restoration of a partially trashed play field, probably another month+ of work in paint (granted, this is a very very part time hobby...) Then after I get it cleared and ready to assemble I may or may not go right to this mod... but probably will do mechanical first and then.... I need to repaint the inside of the cabinet and thats easier with the play field fully stripped since I can just set it down (upside down) and not have to worry about damaging anything so its going to be a good while before I do this. At least I know the game played 100% prior and I did some board work on the displays to fix a few issues before I got really into the game so once its ready for assembly it should go quick.

1 month later
#52 5 years ago

rufessor, what is the status of this project please?

#53 5 years ago

I would be interested in a cheaper fix myself. My EK's controlled lights are ridiculous with LED's, I was considering just getting a new driver board. I come across a lot of early Bally's so anything cost effective would be of interest to me.

#54 5 years ago

Would the No-Flix Bulbs from Pinball Center, or Pinball decals work?

Sorry....i didnt read the whole thread if this was covered.....

#55 5 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Would the No-Flix Bulbs from Pinball Center, or Pinball decals work?
Sorry....i didnt read the whole thread if this was covered.....

Art, Please read the thread. There is a lot of good info that I contributed to this discussion. No-Flix will not solve the problem these early Bally games have. You need to install a resistor. It would be pretty easy to make a LED with the resistor already installed but I'm not sure if the demand would be there as there are only so many of these older Bally pins around with this issue.

Let me know if you have any more questions about this as I've researched it a lot.

Thanks!

2 weeks later
#56 5 years ago

I have same problem with bally

#57 5 years ago

are we using 1/4 watt 470ohm resistors?

#58 5 years ago
Quoted from ironmaidenpin:

I have same problem with bally

Quoted from ironmaidenpin:

are we using 1/4 watt 470ohm resistors?

Did you read the thread? The info is all there. I did notice that some of my pics disappeared probably with the forum update that just was done. Here is the pic that was previously posted:

socket.jpg

And here is the info that went along with the pic:

Quoted from Jags:

Well I finished the LED job in My Bally "Star Trek" and I just would like to share how I installed the resistors on the sockets. First we all know that the Bally lamp holders are pretty bad. They get loose after time and start to go intermittent. To fix them you need to solder the socket to the bracket and solder the wire to the "nub". Also to make the LEDs work without flickering you need to solder a 1K resistor across the terminals of the socket. So I decided to kill 2 birds with one stone. Look at how I soldered in the resistor to the lamp socket.
As you can see I soldered the socket to the bracket at the edge where they meet. I also used this as one point to solder one end of the resistor. The other end of the resistor I soldered directly to the socket "nib" AND also the tab where the wire is soldered to. This creates a solid conection between the "nib", wire, and the other end of the resistor. Lamps are all now very solid and the LEDs work perfectly with no flicker!

#59 5 years ago

1-1.5k work on bally the best, seriously $30-$100 for a board? lol you can get a 100x restistors for like $1.50 shipped to your door lol. The scr smaller transistors are pretty weak its best to put as little stress on the 30 YRO semiconductors as possible.

#60 5 years ago

COOL THANKS JEGS! your Photos not being there really took from the thread!

#61 5 years ago

Jumping in since it was asked- The status of my restore is that I am making progress and on the last step of the major part I "learned" again and need to wipe off a fair bit of work and start over

Although I will be putting resistors in line on the connectors its going to be months before I get to that. I have another week or more of re-do-the-work-I-JUST-did.... Seems like I will be using this thread as a reference as I asked the question but others have done this and the knowledge here is great- Thanks to those who worked this out in practice and have working LED's in controlled lamp circuits-

Great JOB!

I will post pics here when I get around to doing it the way I outlined- but its not any different really than what has been shown, just the location of the resistors.

#62 5 years ago

I like your idea rufessor. I'd refine it a little, and make a 'pass thru' type connector using some stripboard, resistor SIPs, and connectors/headers, like this (forgive the crudeness of the picture):

inlinecorrector.png

#63 5 years ago
Quoted from KenH:

make a 'pass thru' type connector using some stripboard, resistor SIPs, and connectors/headers, like this

That is exactly my prototype. (I'll try to post pics this weekend).

Sadly, my project (the $30 plug-n-play-no solder at all-solution) has not moved much. I can't find PCB production low enough to reduce the cost to a reasonable amount (e.g. I was hoping for under $20 in fab+headers, pins, SIP resistors for 3 boards + wire + solder) meaning about a $30 sale price once you factor in my time to design, order, solder, ship. Unfortunately all quotes I'm getting are hugely above that, giving a $40 cost of goods alone for the 3 boards each machine would need; and no one is gonna pay $50 for a solution. Especially considering the prototype was done with about $6 in core parts (resistors, SIP headers + pins), but about 2 hours of bending wire, cutting, fine soldering, etc...

I'm still looking to see if I can find a more reasonable PCB fab'er for these things to get them done yet for a $30 sale price per machine.

Quoted from Hellfire:

seriously $30-$100 for a board? lol you can get a 100x restistors for like $1.50 shipped to your door lol.

I agree $30 seems like a lot. But how many people
a) can solder successfully (no damage)
b) can solder to oxidized metal and make it stick
c) want to spend a couple hours soldering to 60 some sockets
d) want to 'damage' their otherwise original hardware (yeah that's an issue for some)

and would rather have a plug-n-play solution that doesn't require more than disconnecting 4 cables and reconnecting with boards between in under 5 minutes. Nope, it's not for everyone, just like the $100 replacement lamp boards aren't for everyone; but given the requests in this thread seems like such a product is wanted.

Now if only I or the other person working on similar could find a way to cheaply fab the fiberglass+copper; it could come to reality.

#64 5 years ago

Maybe you're over designing it.

Just use stripboard--it has all the pass through circuits you already need, and its only 66 cents a board, and you can cut it up and make several adapters with one board.

http://www.taydaelectronics.com/small-stripboard-94x53mm-copper.html

Add the headers, sockets, & SIPs, you're probably looking at way less than $10 in parts for the adapters.

#65 5 years ago

The small one won't work, not enough pins across (J1/J3 are 28 pins). Bigger ones could work (with apparently very little extra cost), but since the traces are all inline, then you run into problems for the common connection point of the SIP resistor arrays (they would have to float above the board and jumper wire soldered directly to it, thus being the first point of failure while installing. Perhaps offer a cheap, ugly, "no warranty if you break" option with those for $20 and the better designed ones for $30 -- If I can find a fab.

But definitely thanks for the suggestion; perhaps to get out "something" it's better than "nothing".

#66 5 years ago

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I'd probably just cut some of the traces and run jumpers to get around those issues, and maybe even glue boards together to make them big enough--but that's not a good solution for selling them to the masses.

#67 5 years ago
Quoted from Patofnaud:

For early Bally SS games you need a new driver board. Alltek makes a very nice one that most folks use. Either that or you need to solder components on each and every lamp socket.

http://ksarcade.net/driver-boards-1/alltek-systems-lamp-driver.html

This board also eliminates the 'flicker' issue and so you can just use the cheaper Pinballife or CointTaker LED's without worry.

I just did this board. It takes about three minutes to install, and works perfectly. No more epileptic fits for me!

steve

#68 5 years ago

smart-prototyping.com
China. 10 boards. somewhat cheap.
I'm using them for the LED boards for Star Trek: The Mirror Universe

#69 5 years ago
I agree $30 seems like a lot. But how many people
a) can solder successfully (no damage)
b) can solder to oxidized metal and make it stick
c) want to spend a couple hours soldering to 60 some sockets
d) want to 'damage' their otherwise original hardware (yeah that's an issue for some)
You realize not every socket needs resistors only about 15 per game.
The whole set of connectors having network resistors is a waste of time its all ways the same 12-15 pins and transistors on the light driver boards.

Ive documented the problem on 14 machines and its all ways the same ones when i get caught up on work Im going to figure out a board based solution.
Aux light driver boards never have the problem, and the altec boards only have a jumper added along with an additional power feed connector.

If socket shells are corroded the resistors can also be jumped from the wire terminal to the ground braid, but if a socket is in that shape it should prolly be replaced anyway.

6 months later
#70 5 years ago

Hey Pac-Fan, any progress with this? I just picked up a SilverballMania and was hoping you had some kits ready to try out. Otherwise gonna buy a shit ton of resistors and start breathing lead.

#71 5 years ago

I'm working on a CD4514 one to sixteen decoder replacement.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/star-trek-mirror-universe-pinball/page/10#post-1615183
Just need to find the time to put it in an actual machine.

1 month later
#73 5 years ago
Quoted from Pac-Fan:

The small one won't work, not enough pins across (J1/J3 are 28 pins). Bigger ones could work (with apparently very little extra cost), but since the traces are all inline, then you run into problems for the common connection point of the SIP resistor arrays (they would have to float above the board and jumper wire soldered directly to it, thus being the first point of failure while installing. Perhaps offer a cheap, ugly, "no warranty if you break" option with those for $20 and the better designed ones for $30 -- If I can find a fab.
But definitely thanks for the suggestion; perhaps to get out "something" it's better than "nothing".

Hey Pac-Fan, just wondering if you have made any kits for this... I would totally be willing to shell out 30 bucks so as to not have to solder a ton of resistors for my Bally Fireball Classic

#74 5 years ago
Quoted from holycowzer:

Hey Pac-Fan, just wondering if you have made any kits for this... I would totally be willing to shell out 30 bucks so as to not have to solder a ton of resistors for my Bally Fireball Classic

Hans is working on one HolyCowzer. Click my name and look at all posts started by me.

#75 5 years ago

Just about done with the layouts, should have the board order in by Monday.

-Hans

1 week later
#76 5 years ago

Reading over this thread for future reference. I don't see any mention of aux lamp driver boards but, I'm assuming, if your Bally/Stern from this era has an aux. lamp driver board that would also need to be replaced as well if you're going the board route for using led's? If that's the case now we're talking almost two hundred bucks to put led's in your game. The hours of soldering don't seem so bad to me at that price point.

3 years later
#77 1 year ago

What happened with this project?

#78 1 year ago

SiegCraft electronics sells basically this mod... it's basically a plug and play jumper with resistors to ground for each of the controlled lamps. I ended up buying one but will not be installing it. I cannot stand the instant on and off the LED yields whereas the incandescent bulbs give you a fade in and out... so for me it was an interesting adventure but not fruitful in the end. I would actually pay 100+ for a PWM controll board... if someone wants to make that....

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