it's sunday morning, so philosophical discussion time...

while reading a post from someone who wants to led a kiss machine (not an em, but it triggered the thought process) so it looks like "original lighting" my mind wandered towards "what did original lighting really look like?"...

my reaction to led lighting in an em has always been "no way, they don't belong there, it's sacrilege to do that"... however, knowing already that i'm gonna use color changers for the fountain in the magic city, my "closed mind" is beginning to open up a bit...

taking into account my prior obsession, and knowing that environment effects color temperature a lot more than people might think...

take pf inserts as an example... having just cleaned the grunge out of the inserts on the MC, it's hard not to notice how much they have yellowed over time... even if i used 44's in them, there's no way (short of replacing the inserts), that the lighting will look "original", as color temp will be shifted by travelling through the insert that is no longer the same color as when it was "new"... it WILL look like "what we are used to", as we are "used to looking at light coming through yellowed inserts"... but that shouldn't be confused with "original"... "original" lighting was likely perceived as being brighter and "colder", due to the lack of shift caused by the yellowing...

to a lesser extent, this would also be true of gi lighting, as the plastics have yellowed, and the white paint under those plastics has either yellowed/gotten grunged... the same is true of bg lighting...

none of the above changes the "physical difference" between a led and an incadescent bulb (primarily the "instant on/off" of an led vs. the residual glow of an incandescent, and light scatter)...

however, i'm beginning to think that the color temp of a "warm" led (or even "colder" ones, depending on the amount of yellowing) may actually result in something that is closer to "original" than an incandescent would... and that our "belief" of "that's what the original looked like" is colored by "what it currently looks like after decades of yellowing"...

iow, the "get off my lawn" mentality of "no led bulbs in an em" may be misplaced...

discuss...

@pin-it... thanks for the heads up on that, i'm going to order some and experiment...

@darcy... yup, there are many sides to this... like i said, my curiosity was piqued by the thread i read about "wanting to make a kiss look original", and i started thinking (not always a good thing) "what did original really look like?"... that thought ended up with me dumping this thread out here, hoping for a "fun" discussion...

it is personal preference, no doubt... however "preference" can be (read: "is") influenced by bias, both conscious and unconscious... being human, all of us are subject to bias, and none of us can eliminate it from our decision making... we see this in audio all the time, "preferences" often disappear when subjected to rigorous controlled testing... it is likely (probable?) that some (many?) who object to led illumination in an em have preferences that are influenced by "led's don't belong in an em"... also, since as humans we tend to prefer "what we used to seeing, even if it is not correct", that leads to "not liking" something "new/different/possibly more correct"... we see this in video all the time as well, when a person is presented with a "correctly calibrated image", they often do not like it, even though it is correct (primarily because most people have their tv's set up with way blown out colors and crushed whites/blacks)...

@manitou... possibly a case of "not all led's are equal"... they can vary greatly in luminosity and color intensity, with "less expensive ones" leading to less than desirable results...

to all... anyone got some old yellowed inserts (big blank ones would be best, broken ones would be ok) they want to send me? if so, i'll order some "new" ones and a variety of led's and try to set up a "proper" measurement... i already have a variety of incandescents on hand (old and new) to measure... it may take me a bit of time to do, since i'd really like to get the MC finished before winter, but if someone sends me inserts, i promise i'll follow up...

obsession is a horrible thing... but now i'm really curious...

edit: as noted in the first post, this isn't addressing "differences" in the technology (on/off vs. residual glow, etc.), however, the commentary about "preference bias" holds true with that as well...

note: "bias" should not be construed as having a negative connotation in this discussion... it is neither negative not positive, it just "is"...

sorry, i didn't mean to imply that you bought "bad" ones, that came across wrong...

there's several factors that come into play with perceived luminosity... for example, most led's are highly directional... if you are viewing it off axis, it won't be as bright... whereas with an incandescent bulb, luminosity is essentially equal regardless of viewing angle...

and so on...

cool thanks! some reading material while watching the late game...