(Topic ID: 208181)

LED install on SYS11, now I have LEDs turning on when they should not.

By wrd1972_PinDoc

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

#1 6 years ago

Just did a full LED install on SYS11 Bugs Bunny Birthday Ball. Now, I have additional lights lighting when they should not. If I go into the diag mode and test individual lights for correct operation, in some cases, if I test a single light, I am see other lights ALSO turning on when they should not as if they were linked together. Did not see this with normal bulbs.

I even installed LEDOCD to try to address the issue, but it made no improvement to this. Needless to say, its very annoying.

So if some lights operate correctly and don't and don't inadvertently turn on others, I assume there is some sort of problem with the ones that are multi-lighting. Any ideas why this is happening?

Thanks

#2 6 years ago

What brand/style LEDs? In some cases using different LEDs helps. CT premium non-ghosting LEDs worked the best in my games. I am surprised the LEDOCD didn't work for you, so maybe someone will step in with more info.

#3 6 years ago

It sounds like you have some issue with the lamp matrix wiring, a diode, etc. that is causing a problem. LED OCD can fix issues with timing and/or leaky transistors, but it cannot fix lamp matrix wiring problems.

Is there a pattern to what lights turn on and what lights cause them to? For example, anything in row 1 (11, 21, 31, etc) causes lamp 81 to be on as well.

You can use the "jumper and bulb" method to test your board outputs and narrow the problem to either a board or wiring issue. The Siegecraft lamp matrix tester is a great tool that makes this same test even easier. Neither of these test will pinpoint a problem in the wiring, though. The best way I know of doing that is to make a full summary of what lights you're trying to light and which acutually turn on, then look for patterns.

#4 6 years ago
Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

Just did a full LED install

Did the issues ONLY arise after swapping to LEDs?

Quoted from wayout440:

What brand/style LEDs

^

Quoted from herg:

You can use the "jumper and bulb" method to test your board outputs

^^

#5 6 years ago

Thanks for the help guys. I am using NON ghosting bulbs from Comet Pinball. And this was NOT an issue before the LEDs.

I have not diagnosed the matrix wiring yet. But I am gonna ASSume that the WIRING is correct since the incandescent bulbs worked fine. But there could be an issue with diodes.

I know how to check for damaged (shorted) diodes. But the diodes on the questionable LEDs are NOT shorted out. Could they still be damaged to some degree and causing the issue? Do diodes "leak"?

I have new diodes on the way as to rule that out. I can also do the jumper diagnostic when the time comes. Will check the problematic bulbs tonight for patterns (rows/columns). I am inclined to say yes there is a pattern.

#6 6 years ago

check all the diodes and make sure one of the diodes are not touching metal they shouldnt be.

Also , you could try changing the fade settings on the LEDOCD app. Ie change to 50% fade for the dimmest setting to see if the problem still arises.

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

But I am gonna ASSume that the WIRING is correct since the incandescent bulbs worked fine.

Incandescents require more current to light up than LEDs. If you have a small amount of current, the LED can light when the incandescent didn't. Also, while installing LEDs, you could have bumped something, causing a short that was not there when the incandescents were installed. When I say wiring, I'm using it to mean everything under the playfield vs the controlling circuits on the board.

Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

I know how to check for damaged (shorted) diodes. But the diodes on the questionable LEDs are NOT shorted out. Could they still be damaged to some degree and causing the issue? Do diodes "leak"?

It doesn't have to be on the lamp in question. You can have a shorted diode on a lamp that appears to be working fine, but it is allowing power to backfeed a different column. The full pattern will likely point to the issue. Diodes can leak, but in this case, it's unusual to cause what you're seeing. It's much more common for one to be squashed over and shorting to a socket.

Quoted from Boat:

Also , you could try changing the fade settings on the LEDOCD app.

There are ways to use the LED OCD to help diagnose, but you really have to know what you're doing, and usually it just complicates the diagnosis.

#8 6 years ago

This is a typical sys 11 issue that is in the light matrix . I believe you will find that you have a "bleeding" driver.

#9 6 years ago

I had a similar issues with Simpsons DE and got the same advice you're getting in this thread about the lighting matrix and diodes. Before the LEDs, I thought it wasn't an issue. It became one with regular LEDs, and switching to non-ghosting did not help.

I switched back to incandescents in those sockets and realized that the problem was actually happening with the incandescents as well, but the amount of light was pretty minimal. Because LEDs need much less voltage to light more brightly, the existing problem became much more obvious.

The game left my house before I could diagnose this issue, so I can't give any additional help right now. I'm very confident that this doesn't have anything to do with the LEDs, but rather they are highlighting an existing issue that wasn't noticeable when you had incandescents (or, as suggested, the problem was started because something got jostled during your install).

#10 6 years ago

Okay. Next step is to check for row/column patterns and focus on diodes and see if they might be shorted to metal or shorted internally. Thanks again all for the assistance and very helpful information. I will respond back soon with an update.

#11 6 years ago

Herg was spot-on.

I noticed that one pop-bumper LED was partially lit at all times and it was causing many other LEDs to light when they should not. I must have mis-wired it a while back when fixing the leaf-switch. Now that its wired correctly, all the LEDs controlled by the lighting matrix appear to be working correctly.

Thanks all for the help.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 18.95
$ 54.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 19.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 12.50
Lighting - Led
RoyGBev Pinball
 
$ 95.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Pinball Mod Co.
 
From: $ 64.95
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
PinSound
 
$ 27.95
$ 29.99
$ 27.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/led-install-on-sys11-now-i-have-leds-turning-on-when-they-should-not and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.