(Topic ID: 292425)

Williams Pinball LEDs ghosting

By Theonlylilo

2 years ago


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  • 26 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by PinRetail
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    #1 2 years ago

    Hi everybody! A question for the Gurus..
    I put simple smd LEDs in my Williams Blackout. I read that in these wms machine is not required any adapter or modify, because of the way it works. Just minor ghosting under the playfield but completely acceptable and not visibile..
    All fine BUT (there's always a but..) three-four inserts are affected from "strong" ghosting and Is not aesthetic to the sight (as well as being annoying).
    Why only these 3-4 LEDs?
    Is there a working DIY method to eliminate this effect?
    Please, don't reply to me:" Man, buy a non ghosting LEDs.. It worths!".. I know but I want to understand what can I do only to eliminate the issue to these 3-4 LEDs, since everything else Is ok.
    What makes a normal LED a non ghosting LED?
    Thanks

    #2 2 years ago

    Resistors. Buy non ghosting bulbs and see if it changes anything. Not sure why you would be getting ghosting in blackout. I just did one and used comet bulbs and all was well. No issues.

    #3 2 years ago

    Comet is the best. I've already bought from them but with shipping and taxes is too much.. and the machine must be worth it.
    Resistor.. I read about it. How can I solve It?
    On the socket I have 3 legs: I try to put 1k resitor on the legs where diode is installed but the LED lights up even more..
    Yes, with a "non ghosting" LED the problem of course disappears.. but is not what I'm searching for

    #4 2 years ago

    Then keep trying to put your own resistor on the socket. Not sure where it would go. I just buy non ghosting bulbs. Good luck!

    #5 2 years ago

    Would adding a resistor in series with the LED instead of in parallel work, or help? I thought that adding a resistor across the bulb lugs as you are trying was a Bally/Stern thing, not for a Williams with a lamp matrix. Which seems to be the case if you are doing it and the ghosting gets even worse.

    #6 2 years ago

    I put a resistor in series, from 1k to 4,7k..
    Higher values reduce the ghosting but also reduce the brightness when the LED must be lit.
    Maybe a diode in series?
    But.. what's inside a non ghosting LED?
    I don't want to do a mess.. gi from a type of LED, insert of another type and manufacturer (i have some non ghosting LED from Comet and they are super bright respect the ones used in the gi.. too much difference imho)

    #7 2 years ago
    Quoted from Theonlylilo:

    what's inside a non ghosting LED?

    A resistor.

    #8 2 years ago

    Just a resistor? Why I cannot replicate it with my resistors?

    #9 2 years ago

    Not sure. But says so right on the comet website it has a resistor.

    #10 2 years ago

    I always use non-ghosting in Williams machines. Also with Data East. It's worth the extra few cents per bulb to easily eliminate the ghosting

    #11 2 years ago

    Are all of your bad ghosting lamps on the same row or same column of the lamp matrix? I mean if it's only certain lamps and the rest are fine it's possible you have another problem besides the LEDs themselves.

    #12 2 years ago

    My current problem is on inserts "2x", "5x" and "Fire again".. First two are in the same column but the other lamps are not involved in this kind of ghosting. The picture is "static" but I assure you that the lamps are blinking and it's annoying). Also some controlled lamps in the backbox but the backglass hide the ghosting effect so no problem for me and my eyes

    IMG_20210428_141451 (resized).jpgIMG_20210428_141451 (resized).jpg
    #13 2 years ago

    Blinking is not ghosting. Ghosting is the lamp always being on slightly even when it’s supposed to be off.

    #14 2 years ago

    Here a little video..

    #15 2 years ago

    What is happening during that video? Is it attract mode, during the game or what?

    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Blinking is not ghosting. Ghosting is the lamp always being on slightly even when it’s supposed to be off.

    I have leds in my Black Knight's double and triple score inserts, one stays slightly on, other blinks. I consider both 'ghosting' really. Seems to change depending on other lamps that are lit or flashing. But they are green leds and the inserts are dark and the lighting up is so slight you don't notice it unless you look right down into them. They are cheapie leds as well so non-ghosting ones would probably make it go away.

    #17 2 years ago

    Yeah I guess you’re right. On my EMs they do nothing until a coil fires and that’s ghosting for sure.

    After watching the video, those are definitely ghosting. I was thinking more of the strobing you see in Ballys with LEDs that aren’t modded.

    #18 2 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    What is happening during that video? Is it attract mode, during the game or what?

    It's during the gameplay because in the attract mode the ghosting is pratically absent.

    Yes, if I have no alternatives I will buy some non-ghosting LEDs..
    I would have liked to fix it with some resistors I had available..

    #19 2 years ago

    When those two LEDs are blinking, are there any other LEDs on the same row or same column that are flashing?

    #20 2 years ago

    Yeah. In that video you posted. Show the rest of the playfield.

    3 weeks later
    #21 2 years ago

    What was the end result on this? I had no "Ghost Blinking" leds before I did a hardtop replacement on my Firepower but now I have multiple inserts doing the exact same thing and they seem to change depending on what other insert is lit. I'm thinking a bad diode somewhere.....

    3 months later
    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from WED21:

    What was the end result on this? I had no "Ghost Blinking" leds before I did a hardtop replacement on my Firepower but now I have multiple inserts doing the exact same thing and they seem to change depending on what other insert is lit. I'm thinking a bad diode somewhere.....

    I spent a lot of time to find an homemade solution to the problem but finally I choose to buy non-ghosting LEDs.
    Not the cheapest, but the smartest solution of course. Changed all the inserts and now it's better! Definitely!

    1 year later
    #24 1 year ago

    Just "better"...?
    not... "Changed all the [LEDs to non-ghosting LEDs] and now it's perfect! Definitely!"..?

    I (also) have a Black Knight. The previous owner re-lamped the thing with cheap LEDs. The display is a mess... ghosting, random brightness, intermittent blinking in attract mode and game play, bleh. I need to hook up a lamp matrix test board widget one of these days to confirm the problem isn't on the driver board. But I suspect the display issues are the product of hack LED conversion.

    #25 1 year ago
    Quoted from lothian:

    Just "better"...?
    not... "Changed all the [LEDs to non-ghosting LEDs] and now it's perfect! Definitely!"..?
    I (also) have a Black Knight. The previous owner re-lamped the thing with cheap LEDs. The display is a mess... ghosting, random brightness, intermittent blinking in attract mode and game play, bleh. I need to hook up a lamp matrix test board widget one of these days to confirm the problem isn't on the driver board. But I suspect the display issues are the product of hack LED conversion.

    The best LEDs I have ever bought are those from Comet, but shipping and duty taxes kills this platonic love! I do not hide that I got many LEDs (also non-ghosting) from Aliexp, the are cheaper than other brands, they are slightly less brighter than other brands, but I never had problems (also in my other Williams pinballs..)
    Are you sure the LEDs are the culprit?

    #26 1 year ago

    These games were never intended to be used with LEDs.

    Thus a perfect solution with a different technology is probably a bit much to ask for.

    I strongly consider just leaving bulbs in these games.

    I buy the non-ghosting premium LED's from Cointaker, and they get rid of a lot of the disappointment I feel when a game made for light bulbs has inappropriate 'glitchy' lighting due to LED lamps. They help, but frequently you'll get some inappropriate light flickering.

    (shrugs) Some things you just live with.

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