(Topic ID: 223572)

Lectronamo Just Quits


By oldschoolbob

1 year ago



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  • 34 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by oldschoolbob
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#1 1 year ago

I'm working on a Stern Lectronamo that was in really bad shape. I reworked all the boards, new connectors, rebuilt the flippers, etc. The wiring is still a mess. But I finally got it to where I could play a game. During the second game it just quit. The general lights still were on, the feature lights flashed (only two on the playfield work) and the displays went out. And it wouldn't start a new game. I knew the ground brad to the backbox was disconnected. I reconnected it and tried again. Played a couple of games and the same thing happened. Before I rebooted I checked all the voltages on the rectifier board, driver board, and MPU. All checked OK. Rebooted and it did it again.

I'm not sure what happens when a slam switch goes off. Does the game need to be rebooted or can I just start a new game?

I know this game needs a lot more work but this is something I haven't seen before.

Anyone have any suggestions where to look first?

Thanks

Bob

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#2 1 year ago

I would make sure the MPU was properly grounded, the mounting screws were snug to the interior trace.

#3 1 year ago

Good suggestion phil-lee, As I recall I had problems getting the second screw into the MPU and I just left it with only one screw. I'll check it later.

I don't think the problem is the slam switch shorting. I started a game then set off the slam switch. It stopped the game but I was able to start another game without rebooting. I also found the slam switch on the coin door does nothing. Probably broken wire somewhere.

Bob

#4 1 year ago

Make sure all your connectors in your rectifier board are making good contact.

#5 1 year ago

I connected a jumper from MPU TP4 to the transformer housing. No change.

Rectifier board seems to be making good contact. Voltages check good there and at the solenoid driver board and the MPU. The 11.9 VDC shows a little high - 14.8 VDC on all three boards.

I also noticed when it quits that the flippers will still work as normal. But no displays and nothing works on the playfield. No scoring - no coils. and can't start another game until I reboot.

At one time it seemed to have a stuck switch. It kept scoring (but not continuously). It would score about every 5 seconds - even when I put the ball into the shooter lane.

I don't think I've ever seen a game so screwed up.

We can't let this thing beat us. Any suggestions?

Bob

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

I also noticed when it quits that the flippers will still work as normal. But no displays and nothing works on the playfield. No scoring - no coils. and can't start another game until I reboot.

With the flippers still working it suggests that the MPU board might be locking up. Can you try this MPU board in one of your other Sterns?

#7 1 year ago

I no longer have another Stern game - but I do have an extra MPU 100. I was planning to change boards tomorrow to see if that is the problem.

The extra MPU is setup with Magic ROMs. Can I just use the extra board with the Magic ROMs to test or do I need to change ROMs?

Thanks

Bob

PS - by the way the sound board is working - I just replaced the cables and headers.

#8 1 year ago

Does the MPU board's LED come on steady when this problem occurs?

Sounds to me like the MPU board is locking up. Maybe a bad 5101 ram chip or bad 6821 chip.

#9 1 year ago

The LED is not on when it quits.

The 5101 is a new NVRAM.

Don't know about the 6821's. They came with the game but they look pretty new.

Tomorrow I'll switch MPU's. Do you think I can use the Magic ROMs for testing? I hate switching ROMs.

Bob

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#10 1 year ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

The LED is not on when it quits.

If the MPU LED goes out, then the MPU board has crashed/locked up.
Everytime the MPU board services the display interrupt, it very briefly switches ON the MPU LED which is why it appears dim during normal operation. So when the MPU board is no longer servicing the display interrupt for what ever reason, it's no longer able to dimly light the MPU LED resulting in the LED staying OFF.

Quoted from oldschoolbob:

Tomorrow I'll switch MPU's. Do you think I can use the Magic ROMs for testing? I hate switching ROMs.

The Magic solenoid, lamp and switch assignments are different to Lectronamo. So long as you make sure all drop targets are up, you can put the Magic MPU board/ROMs into Lectronamo, but don't play any games with it - just leave it in attract mode to see if it dies. To test it properly you need to run it with the Lectronamo ROMs.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

To test it properly you need to run it with the Lectronamo ROMs.

I just knew you were going to say that!!!

When it quits the displays DO go blank. (except for player 2 or player 3 - don't remember which - it only shows a "0" in the far right digit.

I'm not really sure when it's in attract mode. Only 3 feature lights work at this time. But the displays do show high score and credits, etc.

First thing I'll do tomorrow is turn it on with the game in (what I guess is) attract mode and see if it crashes without playing. If it does I'll change the MPU for the Magic. If it don't crash I'll switch ROMs and try again.

Thanks

Bob

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

I'm not really sure when it's in attract mode. Only 3 feature lights work at this time. But the displays do show high score and credits, etc.

So long as it cycles between High Score to Date and "00", it's still in attract mode.

Try tapping on the MPU board in different spots to see if it locks up - it'll tell you if there's some chip socket/connector issue. Wiggle the MPU connectors too.

#13 1 year ago

Are you testing *without* the SB-100 sound board connected to see if the MPU also locks up at that point? The sound board's connected directly to the CPU so is known to cause lock-ups at least on startup. Just something else to try.

#14 1 year ago

When I got down to the shop today I turned it on (in attract mode) and left it on for over an hour. Nothing happened. It stayed in attract mode. Then I opened the back-box and wiggled all the connectors on the MPU. Nothing happened. Then I tapped on and wiggled each of the socketed chips. Nothing happened.

Then I started a game and played over 10 games - more than 30 minutes. It played just fine. Everything worked (except the feature lights). The only thing I noticed is the sound would fade in and out. - It was doing that yesterday.

Now I got a real problem. I don't know what fixed it and it will probably fail again. The 5101 socket was replaced before I got it (machined pin SIP). The RAM and ROM sockets were the old brown sockets so I replaced them. I didn't replace the PIA or CPU sockets but they looked pretty good and the chips look new.

Ace, the sound board was a concern. When I first got the game it had no sound. I replaced the headers (MPU and SB-100) and installed new ribbon cables. Except for the fading in and out it works fine now. And that's probably the volume pot. If it would have crashed today I was going to disconnect it.

I'll try playing it again this evening - maybe get my wife to play. I'll let you know what happens.

Bob

#15 1 year ago

I played another 10 - 12 games tonight (couldn't talk my wife into playing). It played just fine. Still the sound keeps fading. I turned the volume pot several times but it didn't help. I think wiggling and tapping on the chips got it going.

I have several chores to do the next couple of days but when I return to the shop I think I'll pull the MPU and replace the CPU and PIA chips. Also I'll closely inspect the sockets. Maybe I'll feel better knowing I did something.

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.

Bob

#16 1 year ago

I played a few games this evening and it worked just fine. I hate when that happens. So I pulled the board out and removed the CPU and PIAs. They look fine - almost new looking. I then looked closely at the sockets. They look good but they look cheap. Not heavy duty looking like the twin leaf or machine pin sockets from GPE. The brand on them say "AUGAT" Anyone ever hear of that brand?

I think I see some socket replacements in my future.

Bob

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#17 1 year ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

I played a few games this evening and it worked just fine. I hate when that happens. So I pulled the board out and removed the CPU and PIAs. They look fine - almost new looking. I then looked closely at the sockets. They look good but they look cheap. Not heavy duty looking like the twin leaf or machine pin sockets from GPE. The brand on them say "AUGAT" Anyone ever hear of that brand?
I think I see some socket replacements in my future.
Bob[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Actually, Augat is known for good connectors and sockets. To be honest - those don't look too bad but hard to tell from the picture.
The problem sockets used to be the single leaf sockets (I don't think anybody makes those anylonger) and the twin leaf, sideways mounted sockets (make contacts on edges of pins and not sides of pins).

#18 1 year ago

Were Augat sockets used on original boards?

I think I may have found the culprit. I had a little time so I removed U10 socket because it had one socket that looked dark. I couldn't get a good photo of it on the board but after I got it off I found this. Probably just a bunch of dirt but that don't look good. The other sockets (U9 and U11) look pretty good.

Thanks

Bob

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#19 1 year ago

Speaking of sockets, why are machine pin sockets suppose to be better? Looks to me the twin leaf has more contact area.

Bob

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

Speaking of sockets, why are machine pin sockets suppose to be better? Looks to me the twin leaf has more contact area.
Bob

you can find machine pin vs twin leaf discussions on a few places. A lot of it is personal preference. Ultimately you can have a crappy machine pin socket or a crappy twin leaf socket. Soft metal machine pins where out after very few insertion cycles or crappy twin leaf that rips the leaves out on the first chip removal.

I like the ADAM TECH sockets you can get over at Future Electronics. Pretty cheap comparatively and they are fine. I have some test gear with tons of insertion cycles and they are still OK.

Tayda Electronics also sells IC sockets pretty much identical to ADAM TECH. You can find 10-16% off coupons for Tayda on FaceBook which makes the price pretty hard to beat. The coupon comes up about once a month.

https://www.taydaelectronics.com/connectors-sockets/sockets/dip-sockets/40-pin-dip-ic-socket-adaptor-solder-type.html

http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/technologies/interconnect/ic-sockets/dual-in-line-package-sockets/Pages/7275225-ICS-640-T.aspx

#21 1 year ago

I read a few discussions on machine vs twin leaf and it seems to be about equal. The reason I quit using machine pin sockets is because a while back I had a hard time finding a short after I replaced a socket. Turns out that the machine pin was shorting to the trace going between the pins. Twin leaf sockets have a plastic base and can't short to the traces.

I replaced the U10 socket and it seems to work fine now. The dark pin shown above was U10 pin 25. That's the enable from the MPU. Would a bad connection there cause the kind of problems I was having?

Thanks

Bob

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

I read a few discussions on machine vs twin leaf and it seems to be about equal. The reason I quit using machine pin sockets is because a while back I had a hard time finding a short after I replaced a socket. Turns out that the machine pin was shorting to the trace going between the pins. Twin leaf sockets have a plastic base and can't short to the traces.
I replaced the U10 socket and it seems to work fine now. The dark pin shown above was U10 pin 25. That's the enable from the MPU. Would a bad connection there cause the kind of problems I was having?
Thanks
Bob

That is an annoying thing about machine pins. They are harder to desolder and solder can stick on the top side

#23 1 year ago

But in some cases - that's the good thing about machine pin sockets. The solder flows through to pads on both sides of boards. Good if you have a bad plated through hole.

To answer Bob's question -- the advantage of machine pin sockets is they typically have four tangs inside the sleeve. Makes contact on four sides of the IC leg. In fact, for high reliability boards (where sockets are occasionally allowed) -- they exclusively use high end machine pin sockets. But these high end sockets are of a different breed than what you find on most sites (including mine). The high end sockets - you are looking at typically $4 or more per socket.

But - for this sort of usage, there really isn't that much of an advantage of machine pin over twin leaf.
Single leaf sockets...now those suck. I don't think anybody makes them any longer.
Then, as I mentioned above, sideways twin leaf sockets also suck (think 'Scanbe').

Most of the machine pin sockets I carry were made by Keltron Connector Company... plus a few Mill-Max and British (forgot company name) sockets. Keltron is no more & the British company is no more. I'm thinking when my machine pins sockets are gone, I'm going to stop selling that type - but I still have thousands left.
My twin leaf sockets are either AMP (Tyco), Mill-Max or Amphenol. I avoid cheap brands such as Chinese brands - the pot metal used for the sockets is too soft, just asking for trouble in the future.

#24 1 year ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

But in some cases - that's the good thing about machine pin sockets. The solder flows through to pads on both sides of boards. Good if you have a bad plated through hole.
To answer Bob's question -- the advantage of machine pin sockets is they typically have four tangs inside the sleeve. Makes contact on four sides of the IC leg. In fact, for high reliability boards (where sockets are occasionally allowed) -- they exclusively use high end machine pin sockets. But these high end sockets are of a different breed than what you find on most sites (including mine). The high end sockets - you are looking at typically $4 or more per socket.
But - for this sort of usage, there really isn't that much of an advantage of machine pin over twin leaf.
Single leaf sockets...now those suck. I don't think anybody makes them any longer.
Then, as I mentioned above, sideways twin leaf sockets also suck (think 'Scanbe').
Most of the machine pin sockets I carry were made by Keltron Connector Company... plus a few Mill-Max and British (forgot company name) sockets. Keltron is no more & the British company is no more. I'm thinking when my machine pins sockets are gone, I'm going to stop selling that type - but I still have thousands left.
My twin leaf sockets are either AMP (Tyco), Mill-Max or Amphenol. I avoid cheap brands such as Chinese brands - the pot metal used for the sockets is too soft, just asking for trouble in the future.

Adam Tech is in good ole New Jersey USA. Pretty darn sure they don't make the sockets there tho. http://www.adam-tech.com/products_list.php?bgid=52

The cheap Chinese machine pins are real bad. The socket feel loose and hardly holds a chip after just a few insertion cycles. I have seen chips pop out of the PCB in shipping when someone uses those and doesn't' straighten the IC pins before inserting. The flex on the legs works the chips out. Yikes.

#25 1 year ago

Yeah, I have seen Adam Tech before but never looked into them. If their sockets are any good, I'll see if I can get on their distributor list.

#26 1 year ago

While we're talking about sockets, here's something I've never seen before. Sockets on stilts. I found these on my Flash. Could be very useful if you have bad through holes. You could solder on the top side.

Bob

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#27 1 year ago

Those are called wire wrap sockets. Usually used in prototyping. Seen them used in Bally MPUs a few times and then had to look it up.

#28 1 year ago

Is it possible you can help me confirm a function of scoring on this machine? My interpretation of the attached picture is when all targets are dropped down the first time during a ball play is you get 10,000 and the bonus score displayed in the bonus column, I am assuming if you were to drop all the targets again in the same ball play you will light the extra ball lane ? Reason why im asking is i think i might change mine to this and i want to make sure im not noting something incorrect.

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#29 1 year ago

Sorry to take so long getting back to you but I just got to the shop. Here is what happened when I drop the targets on my game:

First time:
1000 points per target but last target only scored 500 plus the 10,000 = total 14,500 all targets down.

Second time:
first target only scored 500 - next targets scored 1000 - total after all targets down = 28,500
Plus Red special light and Extra ball light on out lane.

Third time:
Added one game and "shoot again" light came on.

Hope this helps.

Bob

Nice job on your rebuild.

#30 1 year ago

Strange because the plastic above says 500 each lol

#31 1 year ago

Yes, strange, so this evening I tried again. Earlier I went from lower target to top target - this time I went top - down.

Score shows:
500
1000
2000
2500
13000

Then "lights extra ball lane" light comes on

13500
14000
15000
15500
26000

Then "scores special" and extra ball lane lights

26500
27000
27500
28000
40000

Then game knocker and "shoot again" light.

Not exactly the same as before. Targets seem to score 500 or 1000. Don't know why.

Bob

#32 1 year ago

I THINK WE FOUND A GLITCH IN THE MATRIX

2 weeks later
#33 1 year ago

I’m having the same issue with my rebuilt Lectronamo. I got to the point I could drop a ball in and play around. It has locked up about 4 times now. Display goes blank 100% lights stay on and flippers work only. All other play field items go dead. I notice it happens when things get extremely hectic and it try’s to keep up to the scoring points. It’s like it’s cant process it all that fast and it just packs it in. I’m on the stock lamp and solinoid boards but I’m using a new modern MPU board.

#34 1 year ago

My problem was a bad PIA socket. Replaced the socket and it's been working fine. I don't know much about the modern MPU's. Maybe someone with more knowledge with them will help.

Bob

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