Need to be disrespectful and cocky to make an impression? Ridiculous.

This hobby needed a kick in the ass and it got it!!! As far as I am concerned they didn't drop enough "F-Bombs". Pinball is dead partially because the people who play and design the machines are half dead! These guys scream "life". I love their confidence and I love their "F-Bombs". They are doing something that NO ONE has done in a short amount of time. How long did it take JJP to get a working game?? JPOP???? SKIPPY-B???? To all those who have only seen a Jedi in the Star Wars movie.............Wake up, these guys are living Jedi's!!!! GO DUTCH!

There was sooo much to love in their presentation, I really hope people didnt just hear the profanity....

He wasnt the most eloquent speaker... but, frankly, after listening to some "too polished" sales pitches with perfect diction, Ill take honest and profane all day long!

1. Loved their take on evaluating licenses!
2. Loved their policy of prepayment refunds!
3. Enjoyed hearing them talk about being pinheads themselves.
4. Loved them talk about reading pinside comments!
5. great warranty policy!
6. Nice statement on selling your place in line! lol!

7. I loved that I DIDNT hear a bunch of delivery promises
8. I loved NOT hearing them brag about sales figures
9. I loved NOT hearing them blame suppliers for their problems

They hit a homerun and they knew it.... they deserved a little swagger!

Could not agree more.

For me the best part is if you were offended please just go away : )
It all works out!!!!

I watched the video and F bombs aside, I wasn't impressed with the presentation. The main guy needs to join Toastmasters. Curse words can be very valuable tools when speaking publicly, but dude wasn't using the tools right. He needs to watch some of Jack's seminars too. The older ones, then the newer ones.

http://www.toastmasters.org

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Brought to you by the Al Swearenger School of Etiquette.

Yea, look at all the arrogance JJP had when talking up WOZ. Putting down Stern and saying how much better he was going to be all around. OH how he bagged on stern for releasing games with unfinished code, inferior toys, electrical and mechanical problems right out of the box and what not. Many of the things he himself has exactly done.

Although that is correct, its getting old captain. He said he made mistakes, and woz is out, what more do you want?

Move forward.

Ok Hazoff, I gotcha now. We were just using clunky in different ways. For me clunky means lack of flow and for you it is more of a cosmetic definition. Yes I think TBL will likely be phenomenal, but of course I would have to play it for confirmation. I've played TWD once for a couple hours and it seems like a decent but not great game for me. Obviously, there is no right answer here, different strokes for different folks.

Thank you. Solarride.

Yes. I love the clunk of the B/W and if TBL was Blade Runner or Dune, maybe StarWars or The Running Man then I'm in. I love TBL movie but not a theme for me with Pinball. It does look fantastic and I'm really excited that there is a new contender, hopefully their next game is up my alley.

I know it's old and cliche, but never more appropriate.

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I've been watching AMC for some years, they show crazy violence (this season's premiere of TWD with the bat and slitting of throats), but god forbid someone says the word "fuck", that gets censored on every movie that airs on that channel.

It's just a synonym for sex, and with the Dutch, sex is not as taboo. Their beer ads on television even show female nudity at hours when kids are awake.

This whole silly and petty controversy reminds me of the complaints thrown at Mark Zuckerberg's wearing of a hoodie when presenting on stage, they wanted him to wear a suit and tie because they felt that the hoodie thing was "unprofessional in its immaturity".

Stiffs the lot of them.

Having said that, I heard the presentation on Pinball News, from the audio the guy sounded like a very intelligent 16 year old or a very immature 40 year old. Either way, that's who you need to be to create an amazing pinball company. This isn't Goldman Sachs, this is fucking pinball.

_{Post edited by moderator: Unnecessary F Bomb Trolling}

People use the F word? Really?

That's horrible.

I'm just trying to polarize. That's why i wrote "to a certain extent" - depending on the topic and the audience.

Pinball-Expo is not a classic "business setting" and The Big Lebowski is a pretty hardcore theme.

Still, even in business life, in a room with an audience of 150 people i prefer to have 130 giving standing ovations and 20 really upset instead of having all 150 being bored.
It's like the famous line presenters like to use "please ask, there are no stupid questions". Fuck it, of course there are stupid questions and if someone asks a really stupid question i will highlight that it's stupid. I hate how everyone is trying to be completely over the top politically correct these days out of fear not to "fit in".

^^^This.....

....is why I made my last payment right after the presentation. Paid in full F*ckers! (Oh, I mean, paid in full ladies and gentlemen)....

In regards to swearing in the presentation, my take.

When I meet a new client I never swear first, once they do, I will then.

I swear a hell of a lot, but I pick when appropriate to do so.

Probably not my way of holding a presentation.

Elvira would say......"oh poo"....

The only controversy here is being created by people who cannot handle any criticism, however minor being thrown DPs way. Most people have said it didn't affect any pre-order decision, and still thought the product and company is solid. This is a forum. People's opinions differ, discussions happen.

True. But when people are asking for almost 9.5k CDN up front for a machine that has yet to be produced from a company that hasn't proven it can deliver on its promises, it feels more like a Goldman Sachs investment than just "fucking pinball".

And no one has said they were offended by the f-bomb. Type it all you want, not sure what point you are trying to make.

Moving on to their next event. The Dutch Pinball Open is this weekend and DP is going to be there. I can't imagine much will be new though as they prob haven't got a lot done between Chicago and this. Then what Houston expo the week after that? Def making rounds.

https://pinside.com/pinball/events/dutch-pinball-open-dpo-2014

https://pinside.com/pinball/events/2014-houston-area-arcade-expo-2014

Guaranteed the Profanity Police wont be attending THAT event!

Talked with Geert the other day, I think he may try out one of his balls in the bowling ally mech this weekend.

Will updated code be shown? Think I have seen enough videos for now with Expo code.

I thought the presentation was a little over the top with the language, even with him trying to channel the movie. But I think I was more sensitive to that after he opened with what I felt was a cheap shot at Gary Stern. We all have issues and gripes with Gary and Stern as a company, but the reality is that in many ways he is the one who kept pinball alive for 10+ years, and DP probably does not exist if Gary had not done so. So, I thought that they could have driven their point of running the company from a players perspective, without putting others down as harshly as they did. In general I thought the cocky/abrasiveness was a little more than necessary, and some of the answers to questions from the audience were rude, but it did give us something to talk about.

Although the game was not perfect, it was pretty well along and if it had not been at expo, there would have been plenty of talk about why it was not there. Considering how long they have been working on it, seemed damn impressive to me (I guess if I was Phil it should have said 'fucking awesome dude"). It was my impression that they were very close to not showing it, but glad they did.

The game has had very little QA to this point, since their primary QA guy is here in Chicago and had not touched the game until they shipped them over here for expo. I'm sure he is now hard at work, playing the game a ton (lucky guy).

As for as BOP2.0, my impression is much of the delays have been due to vendors and that DP is moving more and more stuff in-house to eliminate that issue in the future. Clearly vendor delays has been an issue for JJP and Skit-B as well. I have to think the move to a color display created some additional delays in both updating the dots and engineering changes to support it, testing the computers could handle it, selecting a display, designing brackets, etc. In reality that also probably has slowed some of the animation work on TBL.

As far as the price point, I give them credit for giving themselves room to do what they want and not lose their shirts on the first game. Their toys are kick ass, cool and interactive, especially when you compare it to TWD. I think Skit-B has made things very hard on themselves with their price point, even if that game is less complex. Any boutique game is going to cost significantly more to make than a Stern game, and if you want one, you need to except that as the cost of having themes and machines that would otherwise not get made. Hopefully with time as DP grows as a company we will see great games at a lower price where they can sell more and more of us can afford them.

I compared people like you to the investors who were worried about Zuckerberg's hoodie for not being mature enough for a fortune company. Oh no! It's not mature! Where's my money going? Oh no!

And then you repeat the same point to me as if I didn't write it. You're weird bro. I know exactly where people like you are coming from. I assure you, it's petty.

Your "9.5k CDN" machine is still just a game. Buying one at that price means your either rich or just plain young at heart, so you shouldn't worry that someone said a bad word to a small pack of drunk people.

It is one thing to criticize, it is something totally different when you take a cheap shot.

Not sure what point I repeated. Also not sure what "people like you" means. You know nothing about me other than I think dropping the f-bomb in a public presentation is not professional. Not quite sure how it makes me petty.

In any case, I think the point has been beaten to death and we can agree to disagree I suppose.

well you got to understand guys we do it the DUTCH way..

Dutch is far more liberal in general when it comes to Sex / SoftDrugs and yes language aswell and i am kinda used to that.. actually having some guys over here on this topic rambling about the bad language makes me think like why so offended by it? but i guess that most be the culture difference or something

having that said when it comes to violence and weapons in general we do NOT like that part at all

95% dont have guns or any other instant dead weapons at home over here in holland..
we believe when nobody have these type of 'measures' nobody gets hurt. well there is good and bad about everything

but we are not offended by saying fuck..
or by seeing actual tits (no censor bannered) on telly after 10pm as a advertisement for some kind of phone fun provider. i had an american friend of mine coming over 10 years ago, and he looked his eyes out when i just had the tv on after dark.. hahaha.. well if you get exposed to that throughout your entire life in holland, its not special anymore trust me

Europe and Usa are like the opposite in that way of the examples i gave imo .

i was at the seminar in person and yeah at times i have to admit i was like you cant say this Phil but on the other hand i was like he was just into character of the DUDE and Walter you know what im saying.

You are way off. You just made assumptions about people and then responded to your assumptions.

The point is that the presentation was unprofessional and didn't impress some people as much as the actual prototype did. It's an observation. The game still looks great and has the potential to be great.

Nobody is worried or offended.

Well let's hope some jabs at Gary will get him back in the pinball industry and not just in the manufacturing industry.

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You got that right,. any jabs to stern most be in jest..

everyone knows that if it wasnt for Stern Pinball

an little fabric of life named pinball wouldnt be here anymore for quite a long time..

stern was holding the torch of new pinball life itself for over more then a decade and even when it was about to die off pre 2008
Gary was keeping Pinball alive! ..

and thanks to them we still have new pinball games coming in and seeing the industry trying to be striving again in other names like DP / JJP, and a half dozen of other boutique pin makers..

so id say All hail Stern Pinball! give me an like if u agree with that

I'm quite aware you think it's "unprofessional", I brought up Zuckerberg's hoodie as an example of investors using that same stupid word. And they still made a fortune.

I know where you're all coming from. We get it: "unprofessional".

You want him to act domesticated when speaking to drunk people. And when he doesn't act domesticated, people assume he's drunk as an excuse. If being drunk is bandied about as an excuse, that right there tells you what kind of venue we we're dealing with in the first place.

I heard Phil's presentation and all I have to say is - eight year olds , dude.

And that's what outsiders think about your hobby. You've payed thousands and thousands of dollars for games. We're all young at heart here.

You guys want to eat your cake and still have it afterwards. You can't have everything. You want a good pinball machine? Okay. But don't be expecting a stiff to make one, it's a pinball machine about The Big Lebowski for god's sakes.

Press start on the machine with no credits and it will actually quote: "Where's the fucking money Lebowski!"
This is the kind of game we're dealing with. There's even a cannabis leaf on the playfield, so fuck "professional" right now, because cannabis is still illegal in most countries.

Yeah, well, you know that's just like, ugh, your opinion man.

think people are missing the use of a movie quote and "likely"

LIONMAN!

Everybody is aware of the kind of machine this is going to be. It looks fantastic. The swearing and the cannabis leaf on the playfield are awesome. The DP team has put together a very professional looking prototype pinball machine. Ultimately, it's their product and customer service that will determine their success, not the presentation.

This thread was about the presentation. Can you make that distinction? Before Expo, most people had not seen the team, and the quality of the presentation appeared somewhat incongruous to the product they produced.

Man, I so feel the opposite. The quality of their presentation was awesome, they said all the right things, and it utterly matches the devotion paid to the machine.

So Phil said fuck a few times, and people didn't like his joke about "we're Dutch Pinball". Okay. But did you listen to what he was actually saying?

Yes... Id much rather have a slick salesmen, trot out some mediocre prototype, beg for prepayments, and (using perfect language) make a bunch of promises he cant EVER keep.... but you know.... be well-mannered about it....

Forget it, you're out of your element.

Or, if no prototype, pizza and tee shirts and bash the competition that helped put food on your table for the prior ten years

I played it pretty extensively and was impressed with layout and toy integration. I absolutely loved it. Code as can be expected was no where near complete but they showed enough to highlight the direction they are going with it. Can't wait to play the finished product which will surely be foreshadowed by some wild speculation/drama on the forums. I kid, I kid. Great time for pinball the Expo demonstrated that. I got to play many pins I had never seen or heard of it made me like a kid in a candy store. Sorry to go off topic there (I didn't catch the presentation)just saw the thread and thought I'd throw it out there.

yeah the discussion over the expo talk pro/con of their approach is a welcome reprieve from the shit storms all over the rest of pinside. Thank's for keeping it dude.

Just calling it like I see it. Your a manchild in denial. The rest of us just admit it, not run away and say "forget it".

Dude.. You're failing to realize " eight year olds" is a quote from the movie and said in gest. Wally is just having some fun. Plus wally hand built a MM from parts so he is awesome

Oh, so he's just one of those TBL aspies who thinks everyone knows the movie by heart.