Freeze and then goo gone to remove the glue.

I think it depends on the machine. I had a Mr & Mrs. Pacman that I was able to use goo gone alone, and it worked perfectly. The goo gone separated the mylar from the "goo", so after I pulled it off, I had a layer of the glue left. Which more goo gone and some elbow grease got it off. Try it very slowly both ways.

There is No better way! I tend to use canned air because it's cheaper! Just turn it up-side-down and spray away!

Goo-Gone takes some time, but it's well worth it!

-Aaron
Iowa Pinball Club

If you go the Goo Gone route and find it is taking too long, you might want to try 909 Orange Power Plus. I just tried removing the mylar from my Earthshaker using Goo Gone and it was taking forever. So I ordered the 909 and it went a lot faster. Here is where I got it from. Scroll down the page to the 909.

http://www.pinrestore.com/Supplies.html

You might see some other helpful items there. Good luck.

Dennis

Freeze spray for the mylar, goo gone for the glue.

The thing about the decals is many of them don't have any kind of clear coating over the printing. They are best when used in conjunction with a total breakdown/clear coat of your playfield. Also best used after you have completely reconditioned your inserts (removed, sanded all old lettering off, etc.).

If you just peel them and stick, you will likely see wear fairly quickly, and I'd assume you'd also see some corners curling up after not too many plays.

I recently did a Pinbot w/ zero paint and zero insert lettering loss. Just go slow and maybe you'll get lucky too. Unfortunately, those that seem to get "unlucky" seem to suffer quite a bit of damage during the process. Once you start this you are pretty much "all-in", so good luck.

I've used upside-down canned air multiple times, with no issues. All the PFs were diamond-plated, so I can't comment on direct removal from paint.

The spray duster that people clean the inside of their computers or keyboards works. Just hold it upside down. If you can get a corner up with your fingernail and shoot underneath it will work best.

I hate the Goo Gone part. Seems like it's not even working at first. I think it's best to let it soak a bit. Then use a magic eraser or cloth to take off the adhesive. It will start to come up faster when it starts to turn to boogers (for lack of a better term).

regular upside-down canned air works here good too.

Your possible paint/insert lettering loss shouldn't come as a result of using the goo gone or any other glue removing product. That part of the process is just you being gentle, not rushing, and letting the glue get softened quite a bit before you start gently scraping it off the playfield. Really no different than any playfield clean-up. If you do it right, you'll be OK.

The danger is the paint lifting away when the mylar comes up. Unfortunately, there isn't a whole lot you can do to influence that outcome. I think to a large degree that's just dependant upon the conditions the machine has been subjected to the past 25+ years (and the manufacturing process to a certain degree).

I'm sure there are multiple pieces of mylar on the field. Pick a small one, in the most non-visible location, and give it a try. It should at least give you an idea of what you may be dealing with before you jump in whole hog. Of course, if the mylar is really that bad you may not have a choice.

IMO, freezing would be less likely to cause damage during the mylar removal than goo gone. Goo gone might work for the first step if you're really patient, but it will still take a bit of force lift the mylar with the gooey glue underneath. When you freeze it, it's more of a yes or no thing. When it's frozen properly, the mylar separates from the glue, and VERY little force is needed to lift it. If I encounter resistance in the middle of a piece, I just spray more freeze until the mylar continues to pop loose. I agree that once the mylar is gone, goo gone/patience/boogers is the best path.

I would think that freezing would expose that paint to a lot of concentrated chemicals... It may help remove mylar, but I'd be afraid of the after-effects. For people who have used this method, does it seem to help remove the mylar and leave paint in tact, or is the reason for use simply because it's faster?

System 11's are notorious for being problematic in mylar removal....Some of it has to do with the way the mylar was originally applied. If it was applied in the field by an operator, your chances are better than average of not having any insert loss. If it was applied at the factory where most full PF mylar was applied it can vary greatly. Alot of it has to do with how soon the mylar was applied to the clear coat on the PF. To soon and the mylar/glue cures into the clear and then that's when you get alot of paint loss/insert art loss. I would say you only have about a 20% chance of NO insert art loss. Most system 11's like Pinbot, HS, F14 I've done mylar removal on and ALWAY lost something.

Now, as for the insert decals, there are three varieties.

Inserts with the art printed on the top side (4mil thick) - These you MUST clear over, otherwise the ball will wear the art. You also need to clear to level the insert with the rest of the PF.

Inserts with the art printed on the adhesive side (4mil thick) - Best method but rare to find them. Most of the decals are printed by Jeff at Classic Arcades and he doesn't have the equipment to do this.

Inserts with the art printed on top side with a thin layer of mylar - Jeff and many others started doing these so you don't have to clear. However, you still have the issue with leveling the decal with the rest of the playfield. The best way, IMHO, to do this is to remove the insert. There are plenty of How-To's on doing this with a hair dryer/punch. Use a sanding block and gently sand the insert face to remove old art and to get a flat surface. Apply your decal and then install the insert flush to the PF, such that the decal is level with the playing surface.

Good Luck on whatever you decide.

Freeze to me is more gentle and faster. With my batman I lost almost nothing with the freezing part. I lost alsmost everything from the goo gone part as it was getting into cracks in the paint and lifting the paint so when I rubbed it they chipped off.

The video below shows you how to do it. This is what I watched before doing both of my machines.

HEP uses the freeze spray method and if it's safe enough and good enough from him it's good enough for me.

Thanks vette, good info. Goo gone does seem like it would be really harsh to use on a PF... I was thinking of doing mylar removal eventually on my PB, but it just seems to be too risky. The mylar isn't really in bad shape, a little yellowing, and some inserts that are a little low. The chest bothers me the most, some of the inserts have a bit of "bubbling" because the mylar doesn't sit flush to the insert.

I would guess that most probably wouldn't risk removal in this instance.

I could never live with a mylared playfield. Pull it. Freeze to remove the mylar, Orange Power (or Goo Gone though it's harder) on the left over glue. There are plenty of how-to guides on this here and on RGP.

Yes, there is some risk. I have been lucky and only lost a tiny bit of black paint around a couple inserts. No big deal to touch-up. This was on two Sys11s, High Speed and Pinbot.

The risk reward ratio is in favor. Sure, you have a small chance of causing major damage, but if you don't do it, you have a 100% chance of playing on a crappy sheet of plastic for the rest of your life.

Here's my Pinbot post mylar removal. I couldn't stand it either and I think it was well worth the risk. Once you take the mylar off and hold it up to a window and see how dirty and stained and brown it is - you'll know you did the right thing.

pinbot.jpg

That is one clean pinbot. I just did some removal for the first time on a flash Gordon. Freeze spray. Came up extremely easy. The glue was the stubborn part. Any paint that came up was already and issue since the Mylar was in such bad shape

I've Removed full Mylar from several sys11 pins and I've found canned air and 91% alchoal works far better than anything else I've tried. The 91% works much better than the goo gone. Naphtha works great to remove the glue also. I've probably only taken up art the size of a quarter with all pins combined. If the paint is in very good condition I sometimes soften with 91% and lightly scrape with a plastic razor blade or credit card. ONLY IF THE PAINT IS SOLID!

Nice Pinbot.. I always figured I'd go straight from mylar removal to CC. Is that unnecessary?

Spray right along the edge. I found getting that first edge to lift to be the hardest part. You gotta get a razor blade or something under it to help you start it. Then keep spraying along where the mylar touches the playfield. You shouldn't have to use hardly any force...it should almost come up on it's own with you guiding it. If you feel like you are pulling, spray more. I probably go way overboard with the spray, but figure better safe than sorry. I think I went through 3-4 of the large cans per playfield. Remember, this is seperating the adhesive from the mylar. The adhesive will mostly stay on the playfield. Orange Power and either an old credit card or one of those blue plastic "razor blades" will get the adhesive off.

As for the need to clearcoat after, that's a personal choice. I haven't bothered with it so far as I feel clearcoat is overkill in home use. Just keep it clean and waxed and you should be fine without. I have found that in some situations, clearcoat also makes the game feel "strange". It's hard to describe...almost like the ball is skating over ice rather than rolling on a playfield. I played a beautifully restored EM that was clearcoated. It looked like a million bucks, but played very strange. The CC question comes down to personal preference and how much more time and money you want to sink into it.

I didn't clear my Pinbot post-mylar, just a bunch of coats of wax. I figure it only gets 2-300 plays a year and that should be fine. There is still clear coat on there from the factory. Ultimately I guess that's a personal decision based upon the investment in cc'ing vs. the risk of not clearing it. It plays soooooo much better now, even without additional clear.

BB - as someone else mentioned above, you need to get a small corner lifted up (gently with a fingernail or something - it can be a bitch and don't get discouraged, just keep working at it). Once you have small bit lifted (1/4 inch or so), start hitting it with the freeze spray underneath the mylar where it meets the playfield. The glue will crack, the mylar will freeze white, give it a gentle lift (gentle!) and it should lift away from the playfield a few more inches. Gently roll back the loose mylar, and hit it again (underneath the mylar) and you'll get a few more inches to lift. Keep going until you are done. If it doesn't crack/lift away, DON'T TUG. Hit it with some more freeze spray. Let the spray do the work. Don't skimp. If you use too much spray - well, you just wasted a little money. You won't hurt anything. Took me about 1.5 cans for the Pinbot I think.

Once you get it started, it goes fast. I removed the mylar on the above machine in about 10 minutes. Took me several hours to clean the glue off afterwards.

Don't freeze the top of the mylar. Won't work at all and you are just wasting your spray.

This is a concern, maybe the game would play too fast... I am planning on CC'ing Flash since the PF needs some major touch ups. I think that this will be a good learning experience.

What about where touchups are made? Without CC will the difference in thickness be noticeable?

Like examiner said, right at the edge. Your goal is to freeze the adhesive, so no reason to spray on top of the mylar. Also like he said, it goes fast. Way faster than I was anticipating. At least the mylar part...the adhesive part took way longer than I anticipated.

I never noticed a problem with where the touchups are. To be honest though, the majority of my touchups have been minor edge work around inserts. I started using black Sharpie before "knowing better", but to be honest it worked great and hasn't worn off. I haven't had to touch up much of anything lately. Using something like a paint pen/marker shouldn't really be leaving all that thick of a line though.

Technically that should work, but would take more spray to freeze through the mylar. I can't imagine why they would do this, but I can't see a reason not to.

Yes, either way you will be freezing the playfield underneath. That's nothing to be concerned about. There might be some sort of chemical in the spray that you are getting on your playfield, but you are going to be cleaning it VERY throughly right afterwards. Hundreds if not thousands of playfields have been done this way, and I've never heard of any ill effects from the spray. That's not to say it could never happen, but I've never heard of a problem.

Yes...please free that wonderful game from the evil clutches of that nasty mylar!!!

Another thing to remember when using freeze spray or canned air. When you spray it wait a second. For me it's working best when it ices over. It will go from liquid to ice crystals in seconds. That's when it's really working. You will see.

Just yesterday I sucessfully removed mylar and glue on lower playfield of BK2K. I'm sure it was factory installed. Compressed air from Office Depot and Orange Power for glue. I found better to do the glue in sections about the size of a softball. I sprayed the OP into a small cup and applied it to the playfield with Q-tips. The glue seems to slowly soak up the OP and I would have to add more. After about 20 mins of letting OP work on glue gently scraped off with plastic razor blade. This gets the bulk of glue up then sprayed small pieces of paper towels with OP rubbed residual off. Then wiped OP off with naptha and moved on to the next section. Inserts take alot of rubbing with OP but mine came clean.

Yes Office Depot sells cans of of it that people use to blow dust of computers and electronic gadgets. I recently bought 3 10oz cans for about $11. Turn can upside down and and spray on mylar watch it freeze and gently pull. Mylar just releases when properly frozen. You dont have to really pull just sort of help it come loose with a mild tension. Actual freeze spray can be purchased from Radio shack but its much more expensive and works exactly the same. I have tried both.

Watch Youtube vids on this procedure and read up well on this before you do yourself. You can ruin a playfield if not done correctly. ESPECIALLY a sys11 playfield like Cyclone. I guess if you screw up at least you can buy Cyclone repo from CPR.

Sharpie for insert edges should be fine if you never plan to clearcoat. If you do clear it it will bleed into the clearcoat

Hey,

You might benefit from researching dry ice on RGP. I personally haven't done it, but some people seem to like it. Just a thought.

Luke

Damn,that is one clean looking Pinbot. Very nice..

My System 11 full mylar removal for your perusal:

DSC00017_1.jpg

I can see how the mylar removal is risky for these unclear coated playfields. I noticed on the clean up how brittle the finish is around inserts.

I would recommend not doing this unless your mylar is nasty, as was my Fire!.

It took 3 cans of air duster brand, upside down. The bittering agent is still on my skin. Do this in a well ventilated room. Not doing so, will make you want to look at your lunch twice (if you know what I mean).

I am going to divulge a big time saver secret here. Freeze spray, then spray a little Goo Gone on it, then hit it with WD-40. Let sit for about a minute. Spray WD-40 on a rag and start wiping. You will be done inside of 5 minutes. The Goo Gone gets the armor pierced, and the WD-40 just dissolves the rest.

Dammit Gambit....

You keep up that kind of attitude, and it might force my hand in sharing some drunken monkey flame polishing techniques.

This works very well!

Kudos for the tip.

Ive done two pinbots, bride of pinbot and space shuttle, all with no paint loss using the freeze spray method. spray the top of the mylar let the liquid freeze then the mylar will pop off easily, you can do a full PF in 10 minutes. If any of you were at the chicago expo last year the pinbot was mine and was demylared. just freeze a few inches at a time and it comes right off. Think about putting tape on something cold, it generally does not stick. Freezig the glue under the mylar makes it not stick to he mylar. The field is rougher so the glue stay on that side. The glue is a royal pain though.

I'm using freeze spray on my 1999 williams jokerz. I'm about halfway through, and no paint lift sof far (and I've been told that era is an issue). Just go slowly, and don't be stingy on the spray.

oh yeah, make sure you get the air cans that DO NOT have the bitterant added. Otherwise you're pretty much pepper spraying yourself while working.