(Topic ID: 151027)

Lead free solder can kiss my arsh

By Det_Deckard

5 years ago


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  • 28 posts
  • 19 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Haymaker
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 5 years ago

    I was jacking up every solder tonight. I thought I had the wrong temp or the wrong tip. I scorched way too much stuff. It was to the point I was questioning if I all of sudden became stupid. Then I notice the solder smells a little different. F'ing lead free solder. God, this shit is beyond worthless.

    #2 5 years ago

    Tell us how you really feel…

    Agree 100% though. I have had people tell me there is no difference…not one of them have ever offered to show me their work

    #3 5 years ago

    Lead-free solder = crap.

    #4 5 years ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    Lead-free solder = crap.

    Simple and to the point.

    #5 5 years ago

    What else is available - what do you use?

    #6 5 years ago

    False. I use lead free solder on lead free boards all the time. There is good and bad solder, maybe what you have is crap. But you shouldn't mix the two.

    #7 5 years ago

    I've always felt that old solder was much better flowing than the new stuff. Being in Europe, what are my best options for good solder? Is all lead free solder bad or are there good brands? What should I look for?

    .

    #8 5 years ago

    I've used lead-free solder on all my pins...board work, coils, switches, etc. I just used it to RGB mod a Super Nintendo. Works perfectly and I feel safer not having the extra lead around. What's wrong with it?

    #9 5 years ago
    Quoted from Gizza:

    I've always felt that old solder was much better flowing than the new stuff. Being in Europe, what are my best options for good solder? Is all lead free solder bad or are there good brands? What should I look for?

    If you require lead free, you should look for SAC alloy solder, it has the best rework characteristics. Make sure you are using the right soldering temperature: 371-427°C (700-800°F) Yes, it is more difficult to solder lead free - it just isn't the "same animal" as conventional solders. It isn't impossible, it's just different - and requires different techniques to hand solder properly. Adding additional liquid flux will help the process as well, try Kester 186 Mildly Activated Rosin Flux

    http://www.kester.com/products/product/285-Flux-Cored-Wire/
    http://www.kester.com/products/product/186-Flux-Pen

    #10 5 years ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    What else is available - what do you use?

    Quoted from Gizza:

    .. What should I look for?

    s-l1600_(resized).jpg

    Awesome stuff.

    #11 5 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    What's wrong with it?

    1) Inferior flow
    2) Inferior adhesion
    3) Higher melting point
    4) Harder to spot a cold joint (because they all look like cold joints)

    #12 5 years ago

    Yeah, you can thank the tree huggers for that!
    There is not enough lead,"thats what makes it easy to work with", in solder to make a big difference.'kind of like global warming".
    It sounds like your savin the world by keepin a tiny bit of lead out of the landfills. but its nuthin compaired to all the other chemicals goin into landfills that are much worse than lead.
    Gives the politicians something to squawk about that makes it sound like they give a s#!t about the environment.
    Lead free is a whole different animal, and requires a new procedure. once you get the hang of it, it is...kind of ok I guess.

    #13 5 years ago

    Most early pins will be soldered with products containing lead. These are best reworked using a product containing lead.
    I am not certain what modern pins are/were manufactured using lead free products. I would suggest the best rule of thumb would be to stick with lead based for rework except where your own situation requires it...For example, our business requires a separate rework station for each. No sharing of lead and lead free supplies or tooling between the two. If your situation or your personal feelings about the environment, health, etc... require you to use a lead free product, you are going to need to learn the differences in techniques and supplies for lead free soldering.

    I solder Pb-free for things at my job, because that is what is required there...but at my home for my pins I use standard solders containing lead.

    #14 5 years ago

    I use radio shack brand lead free .022 for everything I've done for years and years, never had a problem.

    #15 5 years ago
    Quoted from anthony691:

    1) Inferior flow
    2) Inferior adhesion
    3) Higher melting point
    4) Harder to spot a cold joint (because they all look like cold joints)

    This is all true too, though.
    Though I feel it flows and adheres fine, maybe just not as good as lead.

    #16 5 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    I've used lead-free solder on all my pins...board work, coils, switches, etc. I just used it to RGB mod a Super Nintendo. Works perfectly and I feel safer not having the extra lead around. What's wrong with it?

    Tin Whiskers form which can cause all sorts of weird problems:

    http://www.tinwhisker.us/

    #18 5 years ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    Tin Whiskers form which can cause all sorts of weird problems:

    We has a tin whisker issue at a Nuclear Plant that I work for that caused the unit to shutdown and cost the company millions of dollars. Lead solder only for me.

    #19 5 years ago

    And I think it may be responsible for the XBOX 360 red ring of death issue.

    #20 5 years ago
    Quoted from GreenMachine19:

    And I think it may be responsible for the XBOX 360 red ring of death issue.

    That was really lack of proper heating, cooling and engineering...but VERY common for lead free balls on the silicone to let go.

    I LOVE lead solder, works just fantastic. I only use it for board, non drinking water copper pipe and other non touched items. For drinking copper sweating you must use lead free... Good to know how to flow each though.

    #21 5 years ago
    Quoted from anthony691:

    1) Inferior flow
    2) Inferior adhesion
    3) Higher melting point
    4) Harder to spot a cold joint (because they all look like cold joints)

    Good summary. Plus more brittle which is not a good thing in a high vibration environment (this is a major problem in the military and aviation industries).

    I've used both in my professional life and only use the leaded at home. On a 20 some year-old board you want to keep the temperature as low as possible in order to reduce the risk of damage and that immediately eliminates lead-free solder from the equation.

    Also, you can use leaded solder on a board that was flowed with non-leaded. It will work fine.

    #22 5 years ago
    Quoted from northvibe:

    That was really lack of proper heating, cooling and engineering...but VERY common for lead free balls on the silicone to let go.
    I LOVE lead solder, works just fantastic. I only use it for board, non drinking water copper pipe and other non touched items. For drinking copper sweating you must use lead free... Good to know how to flow each though.

    I don't know of anyone that was in from the start with a 360 that didn't develop the RROD, I think I went through 2 consoles.

    Back when they said "Jasper'' for 360, I bought an early one, this was probably late 2008/early 2009. All these years later with countless hours played on it, still works like new, never an issue.

    #23 5 years ago

    I spent about 5 years professionally working on video game consoles. I fixed literally thousands upon thousands of 360's, and ps3's, ect. First gen 360's (xenon) and later but essentially the same (zephyr) mobo's where the most common to suffer RROD, but every so often I would come across a bone stock one still chugging along. It got better as the mobo revisions went on, and IMO Jasper was the most reliable 360 ever made, even moreso than the slims that came after them (although they were pretty good too). Anyways, the RROD was a combination of things. The lead free solder was definitely at the heart of the problem though. The first 360's didn't have big enough heat sinks, and the chips were far less efficient, and the heating up and cooling down of the lead free solder would make it brittle. Sometimes tin whiskers were thought to be suspect as well and most likely could have been! The good news was that 360's became pretty reliable after being properly fixed, unlike ps3's (which have a shit ton of their own problems, including YLOD, the ps version of RROD) which never really liked being fixed and staying working.

    #24 5 years ago

    Tin whiskers are more commonly a manufacturing issue than a repair issue. If you buy a pinball manufactured entirely lead free, you can repair it with either type of solder and you will hardly have an effect on the possibility of tin whisker formation. My advice is to use what helps you to get a good, solid electrical joint and if lead is an environmental or health concern, or if the facility you work in requires it, you'll have to learn how to lead-free it the best you can. But, if you let the tin whisker phenomenon guide your choice, you might just make a crappy joint that results in a problem in the near-term - long before the possibility of tin whisker formation can ever crop up.

    #25 5 years ago

    http://gokimco.com/44-rosin-core-solder-wire-sn63-pb37-031-66.html

    That is the best stuff IMO. Probably the best price too.

    Skip the no clean stuff. You want Rosin core. No clean stuff doesnt wet as well, it still makes a mess that should be cleaned, and the residue is harder wash off.

    #26 5 years ago

    This is what I've used all day, every day for the past 15 years. The organic I combine with water soluble liquid flux for super smooth flow .

    1454437770219.jpg

    #27 5 years ago
    Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

    I don't know of anyone that was in from the start with a 360 that didn't develop the RROD, I think I went through 2 consoles.
    Back when they said "Jasper'' for 360, I bought an early one, this was probably late 2008/early 2009. All these years later with countless hours played on it, still works like new, never an issue.

    99% of them rrod'ed. Old mac, powerbook laptops did it with their GPU ram and ps3's did it. Very very common on the gpu ram chips. MS changed the GPU, and added fans. I still think those failed too.....

    #28 5 years ago
    Quoted from northvibe:

    99% of them rrod'ed. Old mac, powerbook laptops did it with their GPU ram and ps3's did it. Very very common on the gpu ram chips. MS changed the GPU, and added fans. I still think those failed too.....

    MS changed the GPU multiple times, actually. 99% is a little steep I would say too. Xenon and Zephyr mobo's were probably like 80-85% though unless you did some preventive measures before it occured. Fans never changed, they used 4 different types throughout the production run of the fat 360 with no rhyme or reason to which one got installed. Refer to my post above for more details or let me know if you have any other questions

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