I’m pretty sure that in most cases there are less premium games then LE games. Just because you pay more and it has a LE title doesn’t ensure that it is the most rare game. It’s just a marketing ploy to get people to jump onto the newest game.

I am not sure what the end is on cost and to predict it is not an easy task.

I was talking to a customer at one of our locations while I had my girls out to play some pinball. He was thanking me for the collection of games, very new to the current pinball market but had a game at his home. He was interested in buying a machine so I referred him to my distributor for each of the games specifically. He then noticed LE on some of the games, he asked if that was the best.

I said it's all a matter of opinion, some say so, some feel it's a waste etc.

He then made me almost fall on the floor in shock in laughter.

He says, if you go for the LE, is that like a few hundred more than the base model?

I said, well no, it's probably about 3k+ more.

He responded, well if a new machine costs 3k then that is double the cost...

I didn't know how to respond but did let him know that machines have never in my lifetime been 3k.

He had a friend that bought a home version on closeout from Amazon and he thought they were all the same.

Moral is, I still run into people that love pinball that are shocked at the price of a game. It's new blood in the hobby, but how much can they actually increase NIB sales directly is in question.

yeah, if you want rare, then the premium or even some cases the PRO will be the most rare in actual number

From what I have seen very little. Entry point down here in Australia for a base level Stern Pro is $8500 with an LE giving you just enough change from $13000 for a cup of coffee. Most new buyers take one look at those price points and then go hunting on classifieds sites for alternatives below those prices which is where they end up making contact with yours truly.

As an importer and reseller of used machines to primarily "new blood" I can say that gives me a lot of leeway on pricing with only restored A list B/W titles within the price ranges mentioned above and most first time buyers aren't looking to jump in at that level anyway.

Hard core gotta have it no matter what long term collectors are what is pushing NIB pricing to ever inflating levels so you guys that make those new releases sellout in 72 hours only have yourselves to blame for NIB prices that keep going up.

So a premium game with all of the same options and mods as an LE, would be a better buy? Usually game play between premium and LE are similar if not exactly the same. If the LE option just has armor rails, shaker, art blades ect.; then it would be simple to make a comparable machine.

With games that have mirrored backglass, I could see that as a bonus over the premium. Also the art package may be nicer on an LE, but all and all, in most cases, I don’t think the LE is a deal.

With gimmick items like a vinyl record, I wonder how many will be resold with the game on the used marked. Making that item worthless to the used buyer. Eg. How much less is a LE worth without the gimmicks?

The LE saga continues, the hype train starts rolling into the station and everyone wants to hop on. Is Stern screwing people-no. If someone wants to take the risk and has the money and the theme attracts them, then why not? Life is short, enjoy it while you can. If you are interested in an upcoming LE, get your name on interested list. Then when game is announced you pull the trigger, then you have until the game reveal to change your mind. Once game is revealed and you decide not to move forward, then usually the distributor has a list of others to take your spot with no issues taking over payment.

Question you need to ask yourself is..."Is the LE/Premium better than the pro when it comes to how the game plays?" The great Centerflank once said "Pro's are for poor people." I chuckled at that, but the truth is far from that and a games function is more important than the way it looks. Sometimes less is more and the Pro simply plays better. In my opinion the Pro model plays better than some Premium/LE models like AC/DC, Metallica, GOTG, GOT, Walking Dead, and the list go's on. My point is the LE is not always better.

Don't jump on the hype train and you will not have any issues getting "ripped off"

People like what they can't have. Limited Edition models should be just that. If you want any LE to be more valuable then the manufacturer needs to offer certain options that you cannot replicate on the other trim levels. Things like Custom Art package, Foil cabinets, Mirrored Backglass, unique topper, enhanced shot layout and code with additional modes. These are all things that would make special/limited editions worth the extra money. In the past All manufacturers have cheeped out on certain titles.

The following things can be easily added for alot less money making a special/limited edition a poor financial Choice. Invisiglass, Powder coat, shaker, playfield nonfunctional toys, side art blades, speaker lights and the worst of them all a signed certificate of who gives a shit.

Bottom line is Buy what you can afford and what style art you like the best for that game. Stop buying games for resale value. Purchase the game as if you were going to play and enjoy it. I know crazy concept.

It’s highly unlikely Stern would/is doing this because of someone flipping a pin. Let alone someone with the buying capacity of less than 1% of the total product available. Economically speaking, most brands welcome flippers and it would take much more than 3 pins purchased to cause a shift in demand or pricing.

It’s more likely they’re doing this to guarantee they hit a certain revenue point with their product regardless of popularity.

Everyone complaining about the near constant increases in new pin prices needs to realize that it is a necessary evil to sustain the current pinball market "bubble".

A major contributing factor to the recent increase in pinball popularity and availability on location (at least in some areas) arises out of the fact that you can generally sell a decent condition used game for nearly what you paid for it. And *that* is because the new games keep getting ever slightly more expensive, raising the market price for virtually all games at the same time.

This is a fortuitous circle in that more people buy games for their homes as well with the expectation that they can sell it later for basically what they paid for it.

If new games stopped increasing in price, or heaven forbid suddenly became less expensive the whole thing would collapse. Not many bars or people are going to be able to buy a new pinball machine for $5K+ if they can expect to eat 1/2 or more of that cost when they go to sell it later. The location games barely pay for themselves over years at these prices, there's no profit in operating them directly and if the resale market collapses it's game over man, game over.

So you should all cheer when your next NIB purchase is 5-10% more than the last, your whole collection just increased in value...

Wait until the stock market and real estate bubble bursts again. It is 2x worse than it was in 2008. Pin prices will come down also along with other “collector” items.

This false economy we have has made unreality the new norm. I watched 1973-1979 Trans Ams bring anywhere from $100-240k each at our local collector car auction this week. 5 years ago these cars were $40k. Things are stupid again.

if you never regretted any of the purchases, I guess you are not being ripped off then.

This thread sucks

Some people don't want what they don't like.

No, lets forget that immediately, because it's shit you made up. Stern set that up, it wasn't "collusion" with the distros.

Pinsiders will take a deep breath, and then open their wallets even wider.

Just a few years ago, I bought a new TRON LE for $5300

Now new LE prices have almost doubled (or in the case of BM66, tripled )

TRON at least had a real silkscreened cab, not cheap decals....

Uh yea, because Tron LE is the best game ever made.

The only thing keeping it from being a $20k title is the threat of a vault edition.

Collusion is not a crime...

Just joined Speedways and am one fountain drink away from a free one. Can't wait. I used to get NIB discounts for being a return customer however I stopped buying NIB after X-men so am not sure if the distributor still does it. I would have to think people buying every title and multiple at a time are still getting deals.

Dang I have 4 LE's I'm going to tell my wife the great news

.











I'm Back, she said you lied To be fair, I've bought them all second hand though minus TFLE. Maybe that feature wears off with the original owners.

I don't feel sorry for anyone on any side here, lol. Distributors? I don't know of any Stern distributors that are having money problems... they seem to be doing very well with the product Stern is putting out. Buyers of LE's? Well shit, that's your choice for whatever reason over a Premium... some of which includes bragging rights.

So what's the problem again?

Man... Such a great post... You really had me laughing.

I agree. The ruse can only continue as long as the resale market holds up. (Of course, I've been saying that for 5 years.) I thought that remakes and vaults would kill pin prices. I was wrong. They've certainly dropped the prices a bit on those particular titles, but that's about it.

A huge piece of this that no one talks about is the old pricing schemes were because it was expected you'd get money back on it. Home buying was not the primary thing. Now you have all these people paying insane retail for something that is intended to make money back and very few on site demand for what they are actually intended for. So you've got a 8-9k toy that you are footing the bill for, rather than deferring by having people pay to play it. THAT is the big difference in perspective that many people seem to forget.

I mean, it makes sense that some older games are going for a lot of money now, but used pricing has gotten out of control, but if someones willing to buy, what can you say? Some of the people here talk like pinballs are an investment. They aren't. You should expect them to depreciate in value. And you certainly shouldn't get mad when someone goes and makes a remake that lowers your perceived value. We just happen to be in a period where they've went up like crazy. Assuming all the new vendors keep pumping out new machines, then yes, prices are going to start dropping on the secondary market because the 'home buyers' market is going to dry up at some point. Since arcades are not what they once were, you aren't going to see prices drop on retail because they are selling less machines than back in the hey-day. Basically if you are a home use owner, sorry, but prices are what they are. You aren't going to convince the vendors to sell for less. While I don't really like the 3 tier model going now, it is at least nice that they offer a somewhat cheaper version at all.

One of the most sought after titles when it comes to LE's In Australia is Tron. We only got 8 or 10 of them.. Half of those were put on sites

In the end who cares... If you're happy to spend the $ then do it.. If not then don't!

We pay $12,950 for Le's in Australia now.

A smoker will spend around 5 to 6k + per year here in OZ.
Also add alcohol consumption and you'd be close to spending more than a pinball pretty quickly.

I prefer my $ go towards a pinball machine. An Le of course

$8500 AUD for a Pro model is about $6080 USD at current exchange rate. Now thats a bit higher than here, but not as bad as it sounds if you didn't know the exchange.

All that has happened is the U.S prices have caught up to the rest of the world. Welcome aboard

Wait till the next NZ pin distributors email. I predict new Pros will be over $10,000 bucks with the current crappy exchange rate.

rd

Yes, but this push's all NIB Pinballs up, have you had to raise your Disto prices RD?

I don’t make any money on the Spooky pins, so no. Public service.

But the customer will have to pay a little more direct to Spooky due to the exchange rate.

rd

How do we know productions numbers of pinballs? Because factories release them, or because of serial numbers?

LEs used to have a [real] screened glass backglass, not a translite taped to the backside of a glass plate

Most LEs still have a real backglass. They dropped it on SWLE but brought it back with IMDN LE. (But they are direct print now, not screened I believe).

Tron LE was an exception because it has a Lenticular 3D translite (glued to the glass). It looks fantastic when backlit with controlled LEDs though, so I’m good with it not having a real backglass.

I’d say easily $1500 on XMLE probably others as well like Avengers and WWE.

I had immaculate XMLE listed twice and $5k or $4900 everyone was saying that’s a great price but no one was buying it. Finally traded for TWD pro was a money loss but a win for me with TWD punching above its cost.

Haven't heard anyone talk like this in three years or more. Only people talking about talking about it.

Interesting. I haven't been here that long and it is glaringly obvious by many of the posts even if they don't come right out with it. (however, in going through posts, maybe some of what I'm reading is from 3-4 or more years ago)

Well, I agree kinda. I saw a video of Steve Richie saying any time you take a ball and drop in on a play field they dimple. I didn't know what all the fuss was about until I stuck a Star Wars Pro out, an 5,000 balls later it looked like a golf ball course. It was heart breaking to see, I can't remember the time an old Williams game looked like that years on a route. However, the real truth is they used to soft of wood to save a buck and make money. However, my HUO units I don't see it as much. I love my LE's and I will keep buying them when I love the title and fun to play. I am not a guy to pay 8 plus K and then take a 2K loss. I'll just keep it and enjoy it. You can hate my LE's and most of the time, I like the art package of the premium's much more. When I buy a pin I am not looking to play it and flip it once a new title hits the market. LE's are getting out of hand prices wise, but so are premium's and pro's. I'll just love my LE's and move on.

Not true.

The cheapest hardwood in North America is Hard Maple AKA Sugar Maple.

That's why for the last 80 years playfields are made of it

That's why bowling alleys are made from it

That's why basketball courts are made from it

That's why guitar necks are made from it.

-

There are softer species of Maple available, but they are too expensive to use for playfields.

Yes that why my NBA play fields look great and the Star Wars pro looks like Swiss cheese because no one tried to cheapen the game

My piece of crap 1986 Bally Motordome is full of dimples, they are just more numerous and are starting to flatten out. But you can see them plain as day on the sheen of the aux lighting.

20180907_182012 (resized).jpg

Like Steve Ritchie said, "You don't know what you are talking about"

No street price down here either due to the one distributor supply model.

MSRP is it.

and this guy knows his Wood

last time I checked, and don't quote me on this because I didn't stay @ a holiday inn express last night, but basketballs, sneakers and fleshy players don't create/apply the same amount of force to the playfield as a steel pinball does when making contact

edit: lol. I just re-read the quoted post and for some reason I thought that he was comparing a pinball playfield to an actual NBA (basketball) playfield

Has more to do with density. Would be curious to see how many plywood layers on NBA and how many on Star Trek. Probably a 10-11 layer v.s. 5-7 layer? I have noticed a huge difference in wear depending on the thickness and density of the substrate.

I thought it was poplar or birch.

Morning wood is the hardest.

You could really dimple a playfield that!

Or a coin door.