(Topic ID: 224730)

LE's, new releases and ripping people off.... WTF


By iceman44

7 months ago



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  • Latest reply 5 months ago by o-din
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    58
    #1 7 months ago

    I give MAJOR props to JJP for letting the game speak for itself and at least some distributors doing the "deposit refund" if for whatever reason things don't work out.

    Of course, Joe is a great Distro and gets it. I just rolled my $2k JJP POTCCE deposit over to another pin, could have gotten a FULL REFUND but wanted something else.

    Stern is jamming these LE's down the Distro's throats and making them commit to buying a certain allotment.

    So when they say, "Munsters will sell out on day one"

    What they mean to say is SOME Distros have locked people in with "non refundable" deposits. But hey, you get to decide after seeing the reveal after 24 hours.

    I don't blame them, I blame Stern and give them a big F U, as an LE buyer!!!

    Let the M fing game speak for itself! And Distros need to quit selling to idiots that just want to flip the pin. That JIG IS UP. NO MAS.

    So bottom line is I'll buy games from people in the future like Joe and Game Room Guys that don't need to hold your balls hostage.

    If the game is good, so be it, if not then STERN needs to F ing EAT IT.

    #2 7 months ago

    Amen.

    #3 7 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I give MAJOR props to JJP for letting the game speak for itself and at least some distributors doing the "deposit refund" if for whatever reason things don't work out.
    Of course, Joe is a great Distro and gets it. I just rolled my $2k JJP POTCCE deposit over to another pin, could have gotten a FULL REFUND but wanted something else.
    Stern is jamming these LE's down the Distro's throats and making them commit to buying a certain allotment.
    So when they say, "Munsters will sell out on day one"
    What they mean to say is SOME Distros have locked people in with "non refundable" deposits. But hey, you get to decide after seeing the reveal after 24 hours.
    I don't blame them, I blame Stern and give them a big F U, as an LE buyer!!!
    Let the M fing game speak for itself! And Distros need to quit selling to idiots that just want to flip the pin. That JIG IS UP. NO MAS.
    So bottom line is I'll buy games from people in the future like Joe and Game Room Guys that don't need to hold your balls hostage.
    If the game is good, so be it, if not then STERN needs to F ing EAT IT.

    You said it Reverend! AMEN!

    #4 7 months ago

    Amen! Stern LE's are crap compared to other companies....although I will admit they tried to add a few features to their latest offering (glass, shaker, etc...)

    #5 7 months ago

    The LE is all false Hype...all of them have come up for sale eventually and very few are sellin for more than when they were new. No need to rush.

    #6 7 months ago
    Quoted from Pickle:

    The LE is all false Hype...all of them have come up for sale eventually and very few are sellin for more than when they were new. No need to rush.

    We are about to see the next Stern "pump and dump" price increase.

    Seriously, all of us need to have our F ing heads examined for dropping $9k plus on an LE or any pin for that matter.

    The Distros know who the "flippers" are and need to F ing stop it. Ridiculous.

    13
    #7 7 months ago

    The funny part is people are committing to these $9K games without ever seeing game play .... with CGC and JJP at least u know how the game plays prior to purchasing....

    #8 7 months ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    The funny part is people are committing to these $9K games without ever seeing game play .... with CGC and JJP at least u know how the game plays prior to purchasing....

    And how many le's have turned out to be duds at least for the first year or two until code is brought up to snuff? Its crazy, but short of another tron le smart folks can wait to play it and then buy a nice huo with low plays that someone else dumps shortly after unboxing.

    17
    #9 7 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Seriously, all of us need to have our F ing heads examined for dropping $9k plus on an LE or any pin for that matter

    Have you only just worked that out, Icey?

    rd

    #10 7 months ago

    Well said Iceman!

    #11 7 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Seriously, all of us need to have our F ing heads examined for dropping $9k plus on an LE or any pin for that matter.

    Alien Christmas sweaters are way more budget friendly. Probably fully refundable and reversible too.

    EC831C03-0F6B-4672-AC8D-45265C4D975A (resized).jpeg

    #12 7 months ago

    so for all the people who don’t buy LEs and don’t understand their appeal - why the anger ?

    Nobody is forcing anybody to buy LE are they ? (if distibutors are being forced to do this then that is questionable - like back in the day a PC seller was prevented from selling PCs without Windows).

    So if you don’t buy an LE without having seen it then you have to wait and buy it for more from a reseller ? (this is one of the criticisms if I understand correctly). Isn’t this just part of the LE experience - to say “hey look at me, I’m so sure this game will be great I bought it unseen and now I’m the proud owner of an LE” ?

    18
    #13 7 months ago

    Man people love to hate on stern. Don’t want it/like it don’t buy it. A simple premise taught in elementary school.

    #14 7 months ago
    Quoted from Vino:

    Alien Christmas sweaters are way more budget friendly. Probably fully refundable and reversible too.

    [quoted image]

    I want that!

    #15 7 months ago

    LEs were fantastic when they were REAL LEs. Take ACDC...... 12 " sub , dual layer laser powdercoated side rails, plus all of the standard stuff now and all for 500 over Prem price.

    #16 7 months ago

    Thank you for another hate thread against Stern, I don't think there was one started today yet...
    With my European STERN distributor I never have even paid a deposit for any LE/Prem/Pro, it doesn't matter at all which model!

    The non refundable deposit is decided by the distributor and not by Stern?!
    Why do you think they've never build all WWE LE's or TFLE's for that matter if they only had to push them down the throat of their distro's?

    Crazy that all Stern does is bad and all the smaller companies are awesome and better in every aspect, yet they still can't build like 1/5th of the production Stern turns out yearly?

    #rantmodeoff

    11
    #17 7 months ago

    Yea.. Stern sucks, and you all let them do it.

    Now what?

    24
    #18 7 months ago

    Nobody is putting a gun to your head and making you preorder an LE sight unseen. All I see here is a bunch of whining.

    #19 7 months ago

    Time for my morning cup-o-jo and some whining!

    #20 7 months ago

    the campaign (resized).png
    #21 7 months ago

    I never get the above described experience from my distributor. I buy the LE for multiple reasons but the biggest one is to get the full package. We also buy premiums for our route, especially if the features associated with the upgrade warrant it. I have never felt pressure from my distributor to buy anything. I am sure everyone has their own experience but it is nice to see stern announcing units and then delivering them shortly after.

    As for Icemans point, I respect what he is saying and to each their own. I would suggest a few things. 1. Find a distributor that doesnt want a large day one commitment. 2. Find a distributor that will let you move a deposit around to another game if you decide you dont like something about the LE. 3. Not all distributors do what they say. Some say they refund deposits but then tell you otherwise after some sort of commitment is made.

    I know I've been told by my locations that get LE's that people are happy to see them. I get for your home you want the best package and sometimes that comes in the form of the premium. I'm just happy to get the games out there quickly after release and I usually want the full version of the game.

    Cheers!

    15
    #22 7 months ago

    Let me start out by saying that I like Stern. Gary Stern knows how to run a pinball company and consistently produces quality games. With that being said, you LE buyers deserve to be treated like VIP customers. I also believe that for the amount of scratch an LE will set you back, you should be able to customize the thing. Now I'm not talking crappy mods, I'm talking choose your powder coat color, options on habitrails, choose your art package, speakers, etc. For the amount of money changing hands this attention to customer service would be greatly appreciated and would be a game changer in the industry.

    21
    #23 7 months ago

    I don't know what you're talking about, guys. My Ghostbusters LE came with not one, but TWO different style lollipop rails. I mean, that's value.

    Also, the inserts kept changing over time. That's not easy. Kept things fresh!

    Spice it up!

    #24 7 months ago
    Quoted from Frippertron:

    Let me start out by saying that I like Stern. Gary Stern knows how to run a pinball company and consistently produces quality games. With that being said, you LE buyers deserve to be treated like VIP customers. I also believe that for the amount of scratch an LE will set you back, you should be able to customize the thing. Now I'm not talking crappy mods, I'm talking choose your powder coat color, options on habitrails, choose your art package, speakers, etc. For the amount of money changing hands this attention to customer service would be greatly appreciated and would be a game changer in the industry.

    That's a great idea and with all previewing being done by computer I would compare it to how you can build your own range rover. Would be an incredible addition. That being said, I'm not good with art and colors. Maybe the preview would help but always cool to give options that basically cost the company (stern) nothing.

    #25 7 months ago

    Since Maiden LE's Stern has given more value for your money. This was one of the main reasons it sold out very quickly. As long as stern keeps it at 500 units and continues to offer all of the upgrades you will see the LE's sell very well. Deadpool will be no exception. Good thing is when they sell well they seem to hold there value.

    Bottom line is Buy what you like and what you can afford and everything will be ok.

    #26 7 months ago
    Quoted from Guinnesstime:

    I don't know what you're talking about, guys. My Ghostbusters LE came with not one, but TWO different style lollipop rails. I mean, that's value.
    Also, the inserts kept changing over time. That's not easy. Kept things fresh!
    Spice it up!

    =(

    13
    #27 7 months ago
    Quoted from ASOA:

    Since Maiden LE's Stern has given more value for your money.

    lol

    Quoted from ASOA:

    LE's sell very well

    double lol

    Quoted from ASOA:

    they seem to hold there value.

    ROTFLOL

    Quoted from ASOA:

    Bottom line is Buy what you like

    yeah, we can agree on that

    however, the LEs are over priced and they know it. They are selling to a set type of buyer that "has to have it" even if "it" has little value and wont hold value.

    #28 7 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    lol

    double lol

    ROTFLOL

    How much does a Iron maiden LE sell for right now? Are they still available?

    Not sure I get where you are coming from?

    #29 7 months ago

    Yep..... use to be a LE buyer on every title I wanted .

    Since their crazy price increase and overstation of LEs I have not bought one since MOPLE.

    17
    #30 7 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I give MAJOR props to JJP for letting the game speak for itself and at least some distributors doing the "deposit refund" if for whatever reason things don't work out.
    Of course, Joe is a great Distro and gets it. I just rolled my $2k JJP POTCCE deposit over to another pin, could have gotten a FULL REFUND but wanted something else.
    Stern is jamming these LE's down the Distro's throats and making them commit to buying a certain allotment.
    So when they say, "Munsters will sell out on day one"
    What they mean to say is SOME Distros have locked people in with "non refundable" deposits. But hey, you get to decide after seeing the reveal after 24 hours.
    I don't blame them, I blame Stern and give them a big F U, as an LE buyer!!!
    Let the M fing game speak for itself! And Distros need to quit selling to idiots that just want to flip the pin. That JIG IS UP. NO MAS.
    So bottom line is I'll buy games from people in the future like Joe and Game Room Guys that don't need to hold your balls hostage.
    If the game is good, so be it, if not then STERN needs to F ing EAT IT.

    Are you sure people like you that rush to put a deposit down on every new released game are not the problem. God forbid you miss out on having a rare title that lots of people will want and that you can have and they can't.

    JJP and POTC are the best, nah, I don't want that, I want this now, now I want this, squirrel, squirrel..... Can you start to see why stern and Spooky started taking non refundable deposits? If not please go stand in front of the mirror until it sinks in.

    #32 7 months ago
    Quoted from ASOA:

    How much does a Iron maiden LE sell for right now? Are they still available?
    Not sure I get where you are coming from?

    I am coming from
    DPLE still available
    GOTGLE still available and selling cheaper on secondary
    SWLE > yup still available and selling cheap on secondary
    AeroLE > lol
    GBLE> yup lol
    should I keep going?

    Maiden LE will hit the same path in time...

    #33 7 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I am coming from
    DPLE still available
    GOTGLE still available and selling cheaper on secondary
    SWLE > yup still available and selling cheap on secondary
    AeroLE > lol
    GBLE> yup lol
    should I keep going?
    Maiden LE will hit the same path in time...

    Might want to re-read his post. 4 of those examples don’t have any reference point.

    #34 7 months ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    Nobody is putting a gun to your head and making you preorder an LE sight unseen. All I see here is a bunch of whining.

    Plus Stern offers a premium which plays the same and you have plenty of time to wait and see before you buy. The LE is a gamble. Some you win and some you lose.

    Quoted from Whysnow:

    however, the LEs are over priced and they know it.

    It's the the pro and premium that is overpriced so the LE follows suit. No reason the pro should cost this much when games like SM were under 4k NIB. When you look at what you get on the premium over the pro I just don't see the cost justification. At least when you consider what you get on the LE compared to the premium on a game like Maiden it's not that bad (mirror backglass, upgraded speakers and pf glass, inner cab decals, custom shooter rod, powder coated trim, foil decals, shaker, etc). Plus having a LE increases your Pinside status as you become a member of the big dick club which is priceless.

    #35 7 months ago

    Market is getting saturated so only buy a game ( LE ) if you really want to play and enjoy.

    If you don't like taking losses on your 'investment' then buying NIB is not for you.

    I only buy pro's now as they are usually nearly as good and less mechs to go wrong on them.

    #36 7 months ago
    Quoted from Guinnesstime:

    I don't know what you're talking about, guys. My Ghostbusters LE came with not one, but TWO different style lollipop rails. I mean, that's value.
    Also, the inserts kept changing over time. That's not easy. Kept things fresh!
    Spice it up!

    I am not a stern hater... but that right there is some funny stuff...

    #37 7 months ago

    I agree with the OP. There is something inherently wrong with requiring a nonrefundable deposit before gameplay is even seen. I fell into the LE hype once, but I won't do it again even though I typically like the look and LE package best.

    Stern does a lot of things really well. It's fairly amazing how quickly they can get games to buyers once it's released. But the pre-release reservation process could be A LOT friendlier, particularly given the cost of an LE.

    17
    #38 7 months ago
    Quoted from Rasavage:

    I agree with the OP. There is something inherently wrong with requiring a nonrefundable deposit before gameplay is even seen.

    Child labor is inherently wrong.
    Letting your dog crap on your neighbor's lawn in inherently wrong.
    Murder is inherently wrong.

    There's nothing inherently wrong with requiring a non-refundable deposit on a pinball machine. Don't like it? Don't buy it. I think that's the point of this thread.

    #39 7 months ago

    In my mind Stern is great in three key areas: The first is they have great licenses, the second is they have reputable designers, the third and probably most important to the LE market is when they reveal the game its available right away (essentially). This is a big differentiator from all the other manufacturers. What this does is allow them to take advantage of the emotional buyer who always wants the latest and greatest toy even though there is very little information on the details of the new game (this is all by design). Unlike JJP (CGC doesn't count since their all remakes) who reveals the game, and then waits a year before it actually ships (big problem). I really hope JJP is able to fix this issue as their games are incredible, but this issue is not sustainable long term.

    #40 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Child labor is inherently wrong.
    Letting your dog crap on your neighbor's lawn in inherently wrong.
    Murder is inherently wrong.
    There's nothing inherently wrong with requiring a non-refundable deposit on a pinball machine. Don't like it? Don't buy it. I think that's the point of this thread.

    I could not agree more with this. Quit buying LE pins if the whole thing upsets you that much. It's getting old listening to everyone complain about having to buy an overpriced pinball machine. Buyers are the problem, not Stern or distros. As long as people keep throwing money at them for just whispering a hint of the next pin then nothing will change. Flippers take advantage of the situation because "LE buyers" are willing to pay even more ridiculous money. By paying, you are agreeing to the terms of the deal like if there is a refund or not.

    #41 7 months ago
    Quoted from ASOA:

    Since Maiden LE's Stern has given more value for your money. This was one of the main reasons it sold out very quickly. As long as stern keeps it at 500 units and continues to offer all of the upgrades you will see the LE's sell very well. Deadpool will be no exception. Good thing is when they sell well they seem to hold there value.
    Bottom line is Buy what you like and what you can afford and everything will be ok.

    Aside from Maiden, which doesn't count since its so new...what games are actually holding value? I see most (there are a few exceptions i.e. Tron, AC/DC) depreciating significantly in value.

    23
    #42 7 months ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    Aside from Maiden, which doesn't count since its so new...what games are actually holding value? I see most (there are a few exceptions i.e. Tron, AC/DC) depreciating significantly in value.

    "significantly" is a loaded word.

    How much do you stand to lose on your average LE game? $500? $1000 at the most?

    For most of the time I've been in pinball - before the rush of free-spending newbies - you'd lose that exact amount just by opening the box on ANY NIB game. It's only a recent phenomenon that buyers expect their NIB games to "hold their value," or even APPRECIATE.

    If you don't want to lose any of that "new car" money, stop buying new games. I don't think losing $500 on a year old GOTLE constitutes a "significant" loss, but at this point we are seeing the bizarre phenomenon of people taking natural depreciation personally, as if it's some kind of insult. My toaster is worth less than when I bought it new, why wouldn't the same be true for your pinball machine?

    #43 7 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    I give MAJOR props to JJP for letting the game speak for itself and at least some distributors doing the "deposit refund" if for whatever reason things don't work out.
    Of course, Joe is a great Distro and gets it. I just rolled my $2k JJP POTCCE deposit over to another pin, could have gotten a FULL REFUND but wanted something else.

    I'm *fairly* sure this is just Joe doing what he thinks is best for his business. Letting you out of your POTCCE reservation probably just means he's got to find another buyer for that game; he's already committed to it with JJP. But, he'd rather maintain a good relationship with buyers than stand behind a "I'm stuck with this, so you're stuck with this" policy.

    #44 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    "significantly" is a loaded word.
    How much do you stand to lose on your average LE game? $500? $1000 at the most?
    For most of the time I've been in pinball - before the rush of free-spending newbies - you'd lose that exact amount just by opening the box on ANY NIB game. It's only a recent phenomenon that buyers expect their NIB games to "hold their value," or even APPRECIATE.
    If you don't want to lose any of that "new car" money, stop buying new games. I don't think losing $500 on a year old GOTLE constitutes a "significant" loss, but at this point we are seeing the bizarre phenomenon of people taking depreciation personally, as if it's some kind of insult. My toaster is worth less than when I bought it new, why wouldn't the same be true for your pinball machine?

    I could have chosen a better word than significantly

    #45 7 months ago

    Really this thread shouldn't be titled "LE's, new releases and ripping people off.... WTF"

    It's...
    THOSE (resized).jpg

    As a consumer, YOU decide to buy the LE or not. No gun to your head.

    If you want to argue that LEs haven't been the same since Star Trek LE, that's a different story (and also pretty valid).

    #46 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Child labor is inherently wrong.
    Letting your dog crap on your neighbor's lawn in inherently wrong.
    Murder is inherently wrong.
    There's nothing inherently wrong with requiring a non-refundable deposit on a pinball machine. Don't like it? Don't buy it. I think that's the point of this thread.

    Well said.

    18
    #47 7 months ago

    One of the funniest parts about this drunken post is that JJP is applauded for letting the games speak for themselves. JJP started with preorder money, nearly went under twice while blowing through a ton of preorder money without delivering games, and still to this day announces a game, takes as many preorders as possible, delivers a game at some point within a few years. But yes, we should applaud that as the desired model.

    I like JJP, Stern, Spooky, CGC, etc. If I preorder a game without playing it it's 100% on me if I don't like it. If I send a company a bunch of money for a product that is still in design it's on me if I never get that product. If I do anything other then buy a game that I know I like and it's in a box waiting for me then it's on me when it goes wrong. People need to stop blaming others for their own stupidity. The game companies know pinside is filled with a bunch of pinball crackheads. They are just filling the demand for what people are begging for.

    #48 7 months ago
    Quoted from Frippertron:

    With that being said, you LE buyers deserve to be treated like VIP customers.

    No. Offer the pick-your-own options thing or not, but treat all of your customers like VIPs.

    #49 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    "significantly" is a loaded word.
    How much do you stand to lose on your average LE game? $500? $1000 at the most?
    For most of the time I've been in pinball - before the rush of free-spending newbies - you'd lose that exact amount just by opening the box on ANY NIB game. It's only a recent phenomenon that buyers expect their NIB games to "hold their value," or even APPRECIATE.
    If you don't want to lose any of that "new car" money, stop buying new games. I don't think losing $500 on a year old GOTLE constitutes a "significant" loss, but at this point we are seeing the bizarre phenomenon of people taking natural depreciation personally, as if it's some kind of insult. My toaster is worth less than when I bought it new, why wouldn't the same be true for your pinball machine?

    Couldn't agree more! I think the tide has already started to roll out....look at second hand prices for every version of GOTG, Aerosmith, Dialed In, etc - all are trending downward, no NIB games are appreciating at this point. Iron Maiden LE may be holding for the most part at NIB cost but NOT appreciating. It will only be a matter of time (probably not more than a month or two) before Iron Maiden LE is selling for a few hundred below NIB costs.

    The free-spending newbies you are referring to are sort of stuck though. Most are too excited to get into the hobby to realize the financial mistakes they are making and really weren't prepared to absorb a loss to continue to feed the pinball addiction. I went through this phase myself personally earlier on. If you are impulsive or impatient, you WILL lose money...period.

    #50 7 months ago

    Hay Iceman,my thoughts-I looked at the new DP,and decided to buy it! My Distro gave me prices on all models Now,usually I buy a Pre and add features like custom powder-coated side rails and legs,side art,shaker,p,d,i,glass,upgraded speakers! My Distro pointed out that the DP-LE came already with all that plus a LOT more goodies no one else will get!! Price? all those extras cost half what I would have paid to add those features! And a guarantee there will only be 500! So I think Stern is getting it!

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