Doesn't excite me much. I've played Woz & TH and wasn;t really pumped up by the LCD.

Nope I disagree the LCD is awsome! I look at it all the time on my WOZ. If sterns plans to charge me JJP money than it has to have a LCD or I'm out.

LOL AGREE. post the scores -certainly...do some animated stuff for attract mode...but man, there is just WAY too much going on there during the game.

In another thread you were saying how much you loved the ColorDMD on your LOTR. I agree it is a great mod. Why not include a color LCD on new pins instead of waiting 2+ years to buy it for $400?

I don't like the LCD either

You look at a room full of 80s SS games and the art is beautiful.LCD you lose back glass art put a LCD screen the size and place of CV DMD

Just like any new game you play it will take awhile before you become accustomed to it. I would guess that you have only played WOZ a few times so that is why you are still confused. Hell when I played TZ the first few times it was very complex trying to figure out what to even do. There is a lot going on...now when I play..not so much.

The LCD is awesome and I think Stern needs to move away from the old technology. But to each his own.

Full Throttle has me thinking quite the opposite.

DMD's don't make a pin either.

It ain't real pinball unless it's REEL pinball ! ( from Beester )

LTG : )

You realize Lebowski uses an LCD, right?

Don't care for it unless someone puts a DMD sized one in the exact spot of the DMD. I think that would be cool.

I see the LCD as a mechanism to draw people in to play and keep non-players involved and interested. Something that should be appealing to those wanting to operate a location game.

That's crazy talk....According to some here on Pinside unless Stern does it it's stupid.

"__________ does not make a pin"

Not the display
Not the ramps
Not a dragon
And not the weight of the machine.

I think its rather how they all work together to create an enjoyable game.

THIS precise idea is exactly why i tend to be underwelmed with the JJP games (so far).

Everyone raves about the individual aspects (display, toys, sound, toys, weight, toys, toys, etc) but those items always seem to overshadow their talking about how FUN the game is to PLAY.

It's 2015 and Stern's pins cost $5k-$8k. I've got a color LCD with great animation and FX in my 1991 Bride of Pinbot. I have color dots on almost all of my Sterns due to ColorDMD. It's time for monochrome to go. It may be superficial, but these games are expensive and its perceived value is significant.

Color and high resolution are arguably interesting features. The success of ColorDMD and recent MMr disclosures are proof points that color and resolution matter to many of us. While an LCD isn't a make or break feature for us junkies, it sucks that Stern's wiz-bang SPIKE platform still serves up low-res, monochrome images. Actual color, concert footage of Paul Stanley flying across the screen as the pin start Love Gun Multi-ball would be SO MUCH NICER. I don't need a huge LCD, just looking for color and high resolution!

More information available at a glance is very important to me as a player. What ball am I on, what modes are running, why is all of my information being blocked out by an animation...

Having to cradle a ball and cycle through tiny little screens to find out basic information about my progress or my score is quite archaic.

That said, you could do this with a screen on the apron as well and I would be happy.

WOZ is ridiculously fun once you know what the hell you're doing. So...there you go.

Disagree. I think it's awesome and you can look at it when the ball stops plus for spectators it's really cool.

If you think it doesn't add anything it certainly doesn't take anything away.

Good bye and good riddance to orange dots

I imagine back in 1975 a bunch of coin-op guys got together and discussed how much they hated the new solid state's with their fancy electronic displays.....certainly it took something away from the art of the 60's and before. Flash forward about 15 years and the same guys are discussing the new dot-matrix displays and how much they prefer the old ones........ now here we go again.
Someone will always not like something new, it's our nature. Nothing wrong with it, it's just a personal preference.
In 10 or 20 years we will be bitching about the new hologram displays. The circle of life!

I disagree too....lots of possibilities with lcd's

C'mon really? Bleached out dmd's are better? Technology has evolved in a rapid rate over the last decade or so. DMD displays were introduced 25 years ago. We don't need apps or internet on pins but a color display is too much to ask?

They don't make a pin, but they certainly enhance the experience. An LED display is now cheaper than a DMD. Kinda crazy that they have taken so long to make the transition.

I think you players need to step back for just a moment and consider this.

WOZ, the Hobbit and future JJP machines, with the cinematic display **on location**, will draw in more newbies to pinball than another machine out there. Put them in a bar and future pinballers will be straining their necks wanting to see whats going.

Put Score, Ball in play, Player up etc. In the back and use it for attracting new players when the games are idle.

Put play info and guidance in the center of the playfield where our eyes are trained 90% of the time.

So, 2 LCD for me!

But what are the people standing around watching the players watching?

You guessed it: that gigantic LCD that's attracting and holding the attention of prospective customers.

Absurd, really.

If you are going to charge $7500-$9k for a pin in 2015 then put a damn LCD in it.

I own a WOZ and when playing look at the LCD frequently. There's plenty of times to do so such as during ball locks, between balls, the start of modes and when trapping the ball to view game status (versus text on a DMD...).

What Stern is doing by still using DMDs is the equivalent of a TV company selling black and white televisions. They are not even at the ColorDMD level (color crt equivalent) which they should have been including with every game years ago.

You don't have to make excuses for Stern not getting off their butts and putting an LCD in their games. In their eyes customers continue paying for games without them and with less overall features so why really innovate?

You could go short bits on a lcd also.

There's nothing like sitting back and watching the witch melt on WOZ - it becomes a reward also!

No offense, but exactly how many games have you put on WOZ or TH? WOZ is the machine that got me back into pinball. There is no doubt that it is the more modern game whether some people like it or not. What exactly did the Hellcat give you that a 70's Challenger couldn't?

The horse and buggy is just fine folks. No innovation needed here.

22 miles per gallon and a 10.7 second 1/4 mile.

Meh, who cares. A game is either fun or it isn't.

Well that's kind of my point. It's more modern, and you can get 10 seconds in a 70's Challenger if you want to spend the money.

I would be fine if they went back to alpha numeric. I have NEVER seen a pinball game where I was impressed with the graphics on the screen, even back in the day.

Kaneda please! WTF

Agreed - An LCD doesn't make a pinball game. A ton of hard work by passionate people make a pinball game. An LCD just enhances the experience for players and onlookers.

1) A backbox display enhances the experience significantly for onlookers and minimally for players
2) A playfield display enhances the experience significantly for players
3) An interactive playfield display further enhances the experience and adds more gameplay immersion for players

#3 is where the future lies, IMO. Combining #3 and #1 seems like a good idea.

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

Who is to say that Stern wouldn't opt to use a LCD screen that is the same size of a DMD? There is no reason why Stern couldn't keep the same dimensions and still ditch the ancient DMD technology.

Ive Said For a while The perfect sized LCD would be the Sega Baywatch/Batman forever size. Big enough to allow for some cool animations ect, while still keeping art work on the back glass and having a pinball feel.

Then TBL took my great idea! =)

JJ

Everyone has to remember what the WOZ uses to play all that great vid on an LCD... An almost full size computer. Granted it also runs the game but to get that level of video quality you need a pretty powerful computer. So it's not just a matter of putting an LCD in a game You need a computer and all the support to make the vid compatable with the game. All that aint cheap.

Any plans for a backbox display in your games Gerry?

I'll accept this question if you accept that DMDs are unnecessary as well.

Thing is, Stern itself proved that DMDs are insufficient when they started putting full motion video clips on DMDs in the mid 2000's, which doesn't work all that well. A decade later when LCDs hardware is cheaper than DMDs, and the move to LCD is inevitable, it's natural to question the continued delay game after game, while their customers are actively paying $400 per game just to get the low-res dots colored, and another $100 for micro lcd displays.

I've always thought the same thing... they don't need to be the size of the JJP display, the large DMD size is perfect. JJP does make nice use of the larger display, especially in TH, so one can't dispute the utility behind it.

May I ask this to OP.....is this a fair analogy?

A stereo does not make a car, so you are happy with the install and quality of that 8 track tape player in your new Car?

I'm sorry, I have to agree, I much prefer a DMD over a LCD exept in the case of Colour DMD, I find that a LCD has way to much on and can be very bright and distracting, a DMD is much more subtle then a LCD and I hope STERN continues with it's Original Animation on DMD's, but that's my opinion

Your opinion is analogous to saying you don't like TV because you've seen CNN on it. What JJP does with lcd is not the only way to do it.

I agree w/ JJ abut the Jumbo DMD being about the perfect size. TBL's looks slightly larger to my untrained eye yet may prove itself to be a better experience once it's released. As far as JJP's LCD goes I'm amazed at what they're doing with the space during gameplay with TH and JJP's displays do attract non-pinball people into the game. That said, as a home collector I couldn't see myself with a a JJP because of the eyesore factor when it's off. I'd op a JJP with no hesitation were I in position to.

The future of pinball will certainly be in color, who wins or loses between the battle of manufacturers over what's considered 'the best' is irrelevant. What matters it that there are several companies working their best to improve and drive the market forward. When that's happening it's great for all us as players.

Stern, the only pinballmachine maker in the world that does not have LCD.

They had so much advantage compared to the other companies. But already they are running behind technically.

If other companies can step up their fabrication, or and maybe more likely, more new companies with high quality modern pins start to ship games. Who is still gonne pay big money for sterns last gen pins?

Is that technically correct? I'm pretty sure a 3+ year old $35 Raspberry Pi computer running Linux can play back 1080P HD video. I just bought a 64 GB SD micro memory card for $18, which can hold a 1080P HD compressed version of the entire WOZ movie (at least once). How much does a 20" WS 1080P computer LCD panel retail for? Around $100?

I don't think you can really say cost of materials is an issue, but there certainly would be costs associated with video editing and HD animations. To be honest though, I'd guess it's easier to find a graphic artist who can do video editing and HD animations/rendering than it would be to find guys who are still drawing DMD pixel animation.

I'm guessing there are also added costs with licensing clips from movies...

It's definitely not cost of materials. It's software. They have antiquated software and a culture that doesn't promote taking big risks. They appear to be a conservative company that prioritizes manufacturing/shipping games over "wowing" people. Easy to be conservative when you are selling every game you build!