(Topic ID: 72357)

LCD in pinballs - what's the point.

By sillyoldelf

10 years ago


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  • 136 posts
  • 48 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by KAPSIG1
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    #15 10 years ago
    Quoted from GetTheJackpot:

    Personally I don't see what it adds to the game play. I am more focused on what it happening on the play-field. Call me old fashioned, I much prefer DMDs.

    So said players about DMD's before you.....

    #16 10 years ago
    Quoted from flashinstinct:

    I don't really care about the LCD... I want to look at what's happening on the playfield..not the screen.

    That's nice. Should those of us that would like a LCD be deprived of one to please you? Even, as you admit, you aren't looking at it anyway?

    #17 10 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    Its just something new and cool to draw you in but like all new and cool things it will wear off and become no big deal... you can see it happening with WoZ already. These things are popping up for sale left and right!

    I guess like the new DMD's in '91 fizzled out....

    #24 10 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    Frankly I don't want to see or hear most people on the internet. PC, PSN, and Xbox Live gaming is already full of cams and voicechat and so many of the people are either inappropriately young, inappropriately swearing/behaving, etc... it's an eye opening and greatly un-fun experience from my perspective.
    Sounds harsh I know but there's a reason the 'video phone' from all the 80's sci-fi shows never caught on - no one really wants to interact that intimately with the general populous. The days of split screen multiplayer were so much better... close frineds, all together in one room.... kinda like... pinball!!!
    I can promise you that any internet connectivity a pinball develops will never be used by myself, and I won't pay extra for it.

    Then don't use it. Simple. And hate to break it to you, but video calls have caught on in a big way with Facetime and Skype and such. Apple routes millions of Facetime calls everyday.

    #25 10 years ago
    Quoted from Fatsquatch:

    Sorry, but this is a terrible idea. Just absolutely terrible.

    Again, who's making you use it?

    #26 10 years ago
    Quoted from teekee:

    The DMD was just a nice gentle step up and was more of a subtle improvement to pinball without going overboard and taking away from the pinball feel and look. The huge LCD does not belong in pinball IMO and does not 'improve' anything. If anything it takes away from it. The cool backglass is gone and too much of a distraction that takes your eyes off the playfield where the real pinball action is. Its just a cool gimmick that definitely gets your attention... for a while. It helped mask WoZ's shortcomings... for a while.
    I'm all for an LCD about the size of the current DMD or just a little bigger but nothing more. Subtle improvements...

    I wasn't advocating a JJP size screen. I agree with you on a smaller one.

    #28 10 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    There are a lot of players who still feel this way. I ignore the DMD unless I have to pay attention. Callouts aren't all that useful to me either because as often as not the location as the volume turned down. I get so used to playing without them that even when they are there I don't hear them.

    And LED numerical displays before that, and scoring reels before that, and lighted backlgass scoring before that.....

    Technology moves on......

    #40 10 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    Thanks for the advice, hadn't thought of that idea. You may have missed the part where I said I won't pay for it? That's ultimately the issue here - if it costs say, $1000 extra to integrate an LCD and build animations and infrastructure around it (and now we're talking about incorporating networking and presumably build infrastructure around that as well) I won't be buying. Take all that crap out and put a DMD (or alphanumeric display) back in for a hundred bucks.
    As for Facetime and Skype I use both technologies, I never said theres no video calls, but the idea of everyone using a 'video phone' is never going to fly. The real irony is that texting has replaced both audio and video calls in most cases.

    Then don't pay for it. Let the market decide.

    #41 10 years ago
    Quoted from Ilthuain:

    LCDs are vastly more expensive to create content for. Wonky animations stand out and look "cheap", higher resolution means art assets need to be much sharper, you can't cut corners when it comes to sound integration, etc. You're also setting your product up for unfavorable comparisons, like to the graphic fidelity of video games. The DMD comes with very low expectations, which is a good thing if you're developing for it.
    So to get the most out of the LCD, you're going to have to devote more resources to it. Spending more resources on multimedia means that fewer resources can be spent on the core gameplay experience. I don't believe this is a good tradeoff for the consumer or the producer.

    Again, for the umpteenth time....people said the same thing about wasting time making animations for the DMD.

    Technology MOVES ON, people.

    #48 10 years ago
    Quoted from Ilthuain:

    There is no legitimate comparison between the jump to DMD and the jump to HD displays. We're not talking about "wasting time", we're talking about a significant investment of development resources.
    How many people make those DMD animations? One? Two? How many people do you think work on UI and cinematics at the average video game developer? Hint: It's more than two, and they're paid pretty well.
    Advances and falling prices mean that you CAN add an HD display to a pinball, but I have yet to read a compelling reason WHY other than the theoretical "march of technology" argument. Does it make more money than it costs? Does sticking to the older technology add substantial and proven risk? JJP uses an HD display, so does JJP make more money than other pinball manufacturers per shipped unit? These are the important questions, not "wouldn't it be sweet to have an awesome display?"

    Wow, do you live in 1970? Any kid with iMove can create HD video with HD animations. Not that much of a stretch to think that a couple of professionals can handle it. You're creating FUD for your own reasons.

    So yes, it's a legitimate comparison to when speaking about the jump to DMD and the jump to LCD.

    #53 10 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    You would accept "a kid could do it with shareware" quality in an $8000 piece of commercial hardware?
    Seems like one should expect a bit more out of something so expensive.

    What part of this did you miss???

    "Not that much of a stretch to think that a couple of professionals can handle it."

    #54 10 years ago
    Quoted from Ilthuain:

    Yeah, those iMove animations look AWESOME, too. Very pro.
    You know, you may have a point. I do wonder why the company I work for employs so many animators and UI artists when we could just hire kids with iPads. Think of the savings!

    Which part of this did YOU miss?

    "Not that much of a stretch to think that a couple of professionals can handle it."

    #56 10 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    Those couple of professionals don't seem to be able to handle TV production, or movies, or video games. The stretch here is to think they could handle the pinball context.

    What couple? I wasn't speaking of specific people.

    #58 10 years ago
    Quoted from Craig:

    I think the LCD adds a lot already, has vast yet-unrealized potential, and is the wave of the future. Get used to it.

    Agreed.

    #91 10 years ago
    Quoted from Ilthuain:

    I can hammer together a tree house. Therefore, it's not a stretch to think that a couple professionals could build a skyscraper.
    I can act in a community theater play. Therefore, it's not a stretch to think that a couple professionals could make a blockbuster movie.
    Scope, dude. Game companies don't hire teams of people to create UI and animations because it could be done by a couple professionals at a lower cost. They do it because creating content in a timely manner for HD platforms is costly and time intensive if you want that content to be at a reasonably-high quality level. Higher fidelity means that fluctuations in quality become more noticeable, so quality control needs to be even more strict and more resources are spent on iteration. For some products, like AAA video games, this is just how the business operates. For pinball, there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to go down that road.

    You're over exaggerating the issue. It's time for you to move along. I've made my point.

    #92 10 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    Again great dialog. Why bother posting if you don't want to discuss WHY an LCD is valuable?
    If JJP can blow me away with the LCD in WoZ or TH I'll change my tune. So far, in WoZ it's cool, but not a selling feature for me, a home collector/player.

    So I'm guessing the world revolves around you huh?

    I've made my case for LCD before.

    #93 10 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    Very true. For the location, I think the LCD is extremely valuable to attract random folks, but as a home collector I don't want to subsidize location machines with 9k prices

    Again....it's all about what you want as the collector....the rest of us be damned....

    -3
    #106 10 years ago
    Quoted from Ilthuain:

    Huh? I'm not so sure you're in a position to tell me to "move along", tiger. Also, there's no need to emphasize "exaggerate" with the qualifier "over". It is implied.
    You've made your case, and I find your case to be less than compelling. There's a reason Stern hasn't jumped on the LCD ship yet. They've claimed a 30% increase YoY, so it looks like those who cry the end is nigh have not a leg to stand on. What they're doing seems to work, like it or not. There still isn't any evidence that high def pinball displays = increased revenue. If there was, Stern would be all over it.

    Steve Ritchie has already confirmed that Stern is moving to their new system boards and LCD next year. So, in a sense, Stern is on this bandwagon.

    Now, you can either accept this like an adult or.........

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    #118 10 years ago
    Quoted from Ilthuain:

    So now you're done discussing things and just want to post another user's sight gag? gg.

    Well Mr. Anti-LCD, I would think you of all people should appreciate a golden oldie!

    #120 10 years ago
    Quoted from Khan:

    Elevate your game sir. You are better than some of the postings you make.

    I thought my golden oldie comment was one of my more lighter ones, all things considered!

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