(Topic ID: 123704)

Lazer Lord

By smileymatthew

8 years ago


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  • 395 posts
  • 58 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by vdojaq
  • Topic is favorited by 15 Pinsiders

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#57 6 years ago

I'm dying to know if the code was complete, or complete enough to work based on the rules written on the whitewood. This is a multiball game. Two locks can be hit from the flippers, the third would be a random lock from the pop bumpers a la Catacomb.

I hope whomever ends up with this gets it working and makes a video, and posts the ROM images on IPDB.

#59 6 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Do you think this machine is worth $1,000?

As a piece of pinball history, yes.

Beyond that I have trouble placing a value on the game. The ROMs have to be good and the code complete enough to make a functioning game for it to be worth anything more, IMO. But I don't think it's worth more than $3K with the peeling backglass, and probably not even that much.

#65 6 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

You are out of your mind if you think that game would just fire up and flip if it had been put back together.

You might be surprised. I've seen games in worse condition come to life with little effort. The boards look clean on this one.

#89 6 years ago
Quoted from too-many-pins:

I reached under and turned the toggle switch on and the game came right up and played fine. Guy says "I didn't know there was a switch under their".

Ha! That's how I got my $250 Meteor with a new Alltek MPU in it. He only saw the switch because I had broken the game down and stood the cabinet up on it's butt. Transaction was done by that point.

#92 6 years ago
Quoted from too-many-pins:

at this point I really don't see what all the talk is about anyway.

because....

Quoted from too-many-pins:

I have ZERO interest in it

that's why

Quoted from too-many-pins:

Regardless it would be fun to know where it ends up and how things turn out!

I agree! I'll admit, I'm not the right person to get this. It would stay in my collection and not many people would see it. It needs to go to someone who would share it with the public. And I hope that's where it ends up.

#93 6 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

People were wildly jacking the fantasy prices up to five figures until the other pics showed the cabinet and back glass damage. So, which flaw devalued it the most?
For me, the biggest disappointment is the flaky back glass while the cab doesn't seem like that big of deal.
Or is there some valuable historical significance that a Viper cab was employed for the prototype and value is lost if the Viper cab was replaced a Flight 2000 cab?

Backglass for sure. I mean, where are you going to find another one of those? Cabinet is nothing. Sure it'll take some time and money to fix, but it isn't a prototype...it's a production Viper cabinet.

The flaky backglass and the fact that we don't even know if it flips is the difference between a $3K game and a $1K, or even sub-$1K game.

#95 6 years ago

My guess is this game was in development and they simply ran out of time.

However, one also has to wonder how the production version was so much different than Quicksilver. You'd think if they were trying to rush something out the door they would use the existing Quicksilver code and just change the sounds. Rules are the same, at least according to the apron cards. So why go to all the trouble to either change up the switch matrix in the code or design a different playfield harness?

Unfortunately, we don't know how much time passed between this prototype and and production version. Seems silly to me to already have flyers produced with the Quicksilver playfield when you've got a guy working on a widebody whitewood.

Another interesting thing I noticed, the prototype backglass is dated 1982. The production glass has all the same verbiage, but no date.

The fact that the ROMs are labeled leaves me with hope that the game flips. Being v1.0 it may not be very feature rich, and may not be the final code as the designer envisioned. That's why I want to know if the rules written on the playfield are in the code.

#100 6 years ago
Quoted from too-many-pins:

Now back to pinball - once you take the original cabinet and replace it with a restored one and take the original backglass and have a replacement made what do you actually have? You no longer have an original prototype machine you have a cobbled together replica of a prototype machine. To me that is how north of $3000 suddenly became under $1000.

If Mopar took a Demon drivetrain and threw it into an old Chrysler 300 frame because it was a straight bolt-in does that make it just as valuable as a prototype Charger/Challenger frame designed to test the Demon? No.

I agree there would be historical value with the 300 being the first test car with the Demon in it. But let's face it, the real value is the drivetrain, not the shell.

I agree there is some value in the cabinet, but it's more historical value than anything else. The real value, of course, is the playfield, backglass and software.

The cabinet can be, and should be restored, not replaced. The backglass? I don't know. I'd be tempted to leave it as-is and not alter it. Hopefully, another one would surface in the future that could be put it in for looks and the original could be safely tucked away.

#174 6 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Bally made the five balls multiball system under the
playfield; a trough setup system that used more parts.

This is not really a fair comparison since Centaur has the auto launch mechanism. A better example would be Strange Science's trough setup.

3 weeks later
#204 6 years ago
Quoted from gunstarhero:

5K starting?? Man, enjoy your pinball machine. You're gonna have it for awhile.

I agree. I'd be VERY surprised to find a hardcore classic Stern collector that DOESN'T know about this machine from this thread or word of mouth. Everybody here passed on it at 5K. Even 3K was too risky for most.

Quoted from tedandjen:

Im fine with keeping it and i will enjoy it. I will not be involved in all of the crap talking on here!!!!!!!! Have a great day!

Ted, if it's worth 5K to you and it doesn't sell and you end up keeping it, then I'm happy you can enjoy it. I hope you will get it working and take it to shows and take satisfaction in seeing others enjoy it too.

Please don't berate the opinions of the people in this forum. You asked us to tell you what you have. This is the most knowledgeable base of pinball collectors on the planet. We tried to come up with an accurate value based on the current condition of the machine, and some even shot you an offer. Yes, there are some collectors that don't use Pinside for the very reason you're not happy, but somebody would have consulted them for their opinion and if they felt it was worth your asking price it would already be in their hands.

Quoted from danczaz:

List it as a 10 day auction and start price at $1000

Yes, if you really want to sell it set the price low with no reserve and see who throws the most benji's at it.

3 weeks later
#217 6 years ago

Already talking about a trip to the Zoo.

2 weeks later
#220 6 years ago

That's very interesting. Makes me wonder now if the production prototype had different ROMs altogether. After testing the ROMs in my Quicksilver, it didn't make sense to me that the switches didn't match up. So why would they completely change the wiring harness when nothing on the playfield changed?

If the multiball feature works I guess we'll have our answer.

#226 6 years ago

Awesome video, thanks for posting! Glad you got the 4-ball multiball working. Maybe there's hope for the code afterall.

1 week later
#244 6 years ago

Should have taken the deal another Pinsider I know offered you. You wouldn't have had this issue.

Anyway, agree with Slim here. With the story at face value he owes you the $500. And why all the whining about Cybernaut? He made the decision to part with it and now making you feel guilty for it? Cybernaut may not be very common, but it's also not very desirable. And not difficult to replace should he decide he needs to have one.

#298 6 years ago
Quoted from igo4rams:

Ted, why did the eproms have to be good? Let me answer the question. Because they were one of a kind. The 500 was your risk that the eproms were one of a kind and good. Well as it turns out that is half true. The eproms appear to be good (not fully tested yet) but not one of a kind. In other words the eproms info is on the web for free. If I was trying to screw you I could have very easily have said the chips were bad. The sales agreement could have been clearer, that is true. So, I offered a compromise to meet you halfway, which you declined. The mob is not your friend they will turn on you in a second. They just want to see this play out, like a high school fight. Be the bigger man and take the offer. Or, we go to court? By the way you have to file your claim here (Michigan). And how is it going to look when you declined to meet me halfway on a shaky deal. Or, you continue to send the mob after me here and I am forced to close my account.

C'mon man. The $500 was to protect you from ending up with a doorstop.

Scenario 1(yours): You get the game to boot up with the existing ROMs and they seem to be correct (i.e. rules match, switches & lamps correct, etc.) Your safety net is not needed and you pay the $500.

Scenario 2: ROMs are bad and game doesn't boot. You burn a new set from IPDB, it boots and they seem to be correct. Safety net not needed, you pay the $500.

Scenario 3: Bad ROMs. IPDB ROMs don't work. Game is dead in the water. You keep the $500.

So tell me this..... If you told Ted, "Just keep the ROMs, I'm going to try to use the ones on IPDB." Do you honestly think he would have let you take it for $500 less and then come back and give him the $500 for the ROMs if it didn't work?

#300 6 years ago
Quoted from Slim64:

Great points, however he already deactivated his account.

Well then I'll stop following his blog and cancel my trip to the Zoo.

#322 6 years ago
Quoted from igo4rams:

Anyone interested in following the progress of the Lazerlord whitewood I am posting pics and comments here: https://lazerlord.blogspot.com/ feel free to leave comments that are helpful. Hope to bring a working game to Pinball at the Zoo. I will try and post updates from time to time here at pinside.
Looking for someone in my area Michigan that does real good work on repairing backglasses?
Thanks

Here's his post with the link to the blog and announcement that he's taking it to Pinball at the Zoo.

I tried the link and the blog is now private. Probably all butt hurt from people going over there and telling him to pay up.

#348 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

He wanted one-of-a-kind ROMs - he got them!

He sure did. Where does he think the IPDB ROM images came from?

#363 6 years ago
Quoted from tedandjen:

Message #39 of 40 6 days ago

???
igo4rams

Inactive member

<1y 31k 67 3/1
Just a side note. This is why some contracts can be so long and boring. What is not said can be the biggest problem.

To me the understanding was the eproms were one of a kind and therefore had to be intact and working. That was partially true. That is what I am trying to tell you. I did not need the eproms after all. The eprom info is already available on the net. No one knew that until I had them tested. That was a risk you and I both took. I feel I had almost all risk and all the work. I feel it was unexpected but awesome that the info was already safe and out there for anyone to have. First thing I said to the guy reading the chips was "now what, how can that be so". Myself and everyone out there were thinking the info was one of a kind. That is one reason why it was never said, it was understood or implied. We did not know the eproms would work until I got the game up and running. Still don't have everything working but can say with some certainty that the eproms work in this game. I can say, I would have tried the eprom info out there if the eproms in this game did not work. Having working and not corrupt eproms was helpful. I am still of the belief I don't owe you the $500 but I am okay with the way the eproms turned out. I am willing to send you an amount that is comparable to the risk you took compared to the risk I took, one fifth. If $100 will make things right, I can send that today. Paypal or by check in the mail?

Quoted from jar155:

$500 isn't worth the price of burning bridges in the collector community, because nobody will want to deal with him.

And now all of his friends have read it too and know there's nothing in whatever spin he put on the story that was "understood or implied". $500 ain't worth it to have my friends think I'm a liar and a thief.

And then to offer Ted $100 to go away? Now there's a slap in the face.

#376 6 years ago

It's all up to you and what you can live with. But dishonest people need to learn a lesson or they will just keep doing it to other people.

1 week later
#391 6 years ago
Quoted from tedandjen:

I received the remainder of what was owed to me today. Ken asked me to post on his behalf in this thread. So with much apprehension i will do that for him. "I, Ken, would like to apologize To Ted for not making the terms of our deal clearer, and for that i am sorry. I will be sending Ted a certified bank check for the sum of $500

So you received the money, right? Why are you apprehensive about posting his apology? I for one am glad to see that he made a formal apology and appreciate you posting it. If he still plans on making a debut at PATZ I may have to go see it. Looks like he has reinstated access to his blog so we can follow along again.

https://lazerlord.blogspot.com/

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