I think the buyer assumed they would be, and so did everyone else in this thread. There was always the chance that the EPROMs were going to be toast, so there was a chance that you would not have gotten that $500 anyway. But like you say, they did end up working as far as you are concerned. I think the two of you are probably going to have to be flexible and come to a compromise of some sort to satisfy the spirit of the original agreement. Neither of you will probably be entirely satisfied, but that's how compromises sometimes turn out.

image (resized).jpeg

The backglass is bad ass for sure!!!!

Well i understand how compromises go. Just kind of sucks you cant hold someone to there word in our great country.

Well, you've only posted your side. The buyer hasn't chimed in on the issue with their side yet.

I hope he posts. I have all of the messages we sent back and forth about terms of sale i would like to share with everyone.

The buyer owes you $500 based on what you disclosed.

BTW - I can't believe that was the best deal you were offered.

Compromise? Compromise for what? The deal was $500 for working Eproms or $0 for non-working/corrupt Eproms, there were no other stipulations that I see in what has been presented. They worked, cough up the $500. Buyer knew he was taking a chance. Seller took buyer for his word and emails. Unless the buyer can produce ANYTHING in writing that not only did they have to work, but they had to be unique compared to the other known Lazer Lord Eproms, then too f'ing bad.

I can see asking for a compromise if the Eproms turn out to be Flight 2000 or Quicksilver Eproms, but they are not. Working Lazer Lord Eproms, $500 is due immediately. Buyer took a huge gamble at his own discretion, pay up!

If Ted had said "Hey these are some one of a kind EPROMs I'm selling" then I could see some compromise.

But Ted does not know anything about pinball, and probably never heard of an EPROM before this thread.

Buyer: time to man-up .

From the messages— The implication of the stipulation was that without a working eprom the whitewood wasn’t worth that much. Whatever anyone believed about the contents of the eprom is irrelevant. Buyer has working whitewood, which was the main gamble. Gamble paid off, pay the $500. If the buyer wanted the $500 to be due upon determination that the EPROMs were unique, that should have been clearly stated.

May be a lesson learned though.. unless buyer has change of heart - hard to recover the money at this point with not much leverage other than the pinside mob.

i'd just pay the $500. Sounds like the lazerlord receiver ended up with a sweet deal, even with the $500 paid out.

Spot on.

Pay the man.

You have a working set of ROMs which was the agreement. As the buyer, you might have thought in your mind, a 'working set' meant unique, but that's a stretch to think that was implied to the seller.

I think the "pinside mob" will have a heavy influence in this situation. It's a shitty move by the buyer. Man up igo4rams & pay up!

IF and big IF, the buyer had asked for a compromise, then I could see an amicable solution. Hey, the Eproms do work, but it turns out they are the same as the other prototype and can be burned, do you think we could meet in the middle on the $500? But to just say he isn't paying and telling the seller he will not communicate with him if he says he is ripping him off is a cowardly and crooked move.

Only reason he knows the Eproms match what's on IPDB is because they were good and he was able to compare. Pay up.

Going back 30 years, but the rules remain the same

igo4rams is on radio silence, but he has been here on Pinside VERY recently. Probably keeping close tabs on this thread.

What a great thing to do to a new guy in the hobby.

tedandjen start a new thread with a seller beware warning to all Pinsiders. Not enough people are following/reading this thread. Save other sellers the headache(s) of dealing with this buyer. Also warn everyone so if he decides to show up to any of the shows with this machine, they can all remind him of the debt owed.

Oh, by the way, since the transaction happened at your house, file a small claims case for the $500 plus all costs in Kendall County. You will get a judgement against him because there is no way in hell he could convince ANY judge of his implied Eproms were one of a kind defense against a guy that never owned a pinball machine. Then when he refuses to pay you, you can file for collections and his credit rating can be ruined. Just wanted to throw that out there since it's quite obvious the buyer is actively reading this thread.

igo4rams , if you have the gall to down vote my post, at least have the guts to come on here and give us your side of not paying the $500.

The fact that he hasn't speaks volumes

Not everyone wants to duke out a private matter in public.

Pretty sure the seller came on here because the buyer said you are not getting the $500 and has made no more contact. Seller made it an open matter because he believes he had no other choice. I really hate seeing people getting screwed and the live with it attitude. ForceFlow , I am not saying that is your position either. Even though lots of these types of issue become pissing matches and people don't like these kinds of posts, the end result is some sort of resolve usually happens due to pressure from Pinsiders, especially when it's 2 active members.

I tryed to handle it in private and got nowhere. I know he was pretty active on pinside so i just want to try and make sure he dont screw anyone else here. He still has a chance to make it right before things get way out of hand. Thanks for all the support you fine people here have given me.

Ted,

I will approach you again with a compromise but this time in public. You feel very strongly about your position as do I. I will meet you halfway if you will accept 250 and make the deal final.

Wow, and exchange of meat. How can anyone turn that down. Sounds like this deal is really going to get hot.

You owe him 500. You made the offer. Pay up.

It's time to start thinking about returning the game to Ted, get your game back, and let him find another offer.

C'mon man-up!

You own him $500.

"Bltch betta have my money; not some, not half, but ALL my money...."

I'm a little surprised at how many folks are out with their pitchforks. It's easy to say "fork it over" when it's not your money. Especially when at the center of it is an item that has turned out to hold little value. Was it an ironclad conditional agreement? I don't know. Personally, I wouldn't have made an agreement like this in the first place (either as a seller or as a buyer) since it can easily have the potential to go sideways if someone isn't happy with something.

After seeing private disagreements being made public many, many times, more often than not, the person who posts about a private matter does not end up actually being the fully wronged party.

I know a lot of people practically salivate at the prospect of a good drama and controversy and like to pick a side and scream for justice. I'm guessing since the buyer has been on the forums for a little while, he is aware of the kind of show that usually goes down.

Personally, I usually like to hear both sides. A dispute usually takes interesting turns after there is a response from the other party, and I've been surprised more than once with what additional information brings. So, I've learned to try to reserve judgement before all the facts are in.

The buyer offered $1,500 cash and Cybernaut upfront, with an extra $500 after testing the EPROM.

The EPROMs turned out to be fine, and the exact same as the other known Lazer Lords.

The quotes below represent the offer made to Ted and Ted accepting the offer.

Seems very clear to me that buyer owes the seller $500.

Marcus

That's how I read it too.

It wasn’t a clearly written deal though — with both parties now feeling strongly about their side of things. $250 is way better than $0.00 , or the hassle of small claims court more headaches or whatever the alternative is to try and get the full $500.

I’d take the 250 and next time make sure terms are clear to both parties before the exchange.

You might feel strongly about your position, but your position isn't strong. Big difference. Now, we've only heard one side, but it contains direct communication from you...OP isn't making up the terms of the deal. At the end of the day, do whatever you can live with, and what your reputation can live with. It's that simple.

Ok Ken thanks for getting into this " public discussion". I will decline your compromise of $250. I think the masses have spoken and you should make good on your end of the deal. I was going to post the messages with the terms of the sale here but was not sure if that was ok with mods. Im not sure why you would want to ruin your name in the pinball community here but that is whats going on. Just pay me what you owe me and lets all move on with our lives.

Ted, why did the eproms have to be good? Let me answer the question. Because they were one of a kind. The 500 was your risk that the eproms were one of a kind and good. Well as it turns out that is half true. The eproms appear to be good (not fully tested yet) but not one of a kind. In other words the eproms info is on the web for free. If I was trying to screw you I could have very easily have said the chips were bad. The sales agreement could have been clearer, that is true. So, I offered a compromise to meet you halfway, which you declined. The mob is not your friend they will turn on you in a second. They just want to see this play out, like a high school fight. Be the bigger man and take the offer. Or, we go to court? By the way you have to file your claim here (Michigan). And how is it going to look when you declined to meet me halfway on a shaky deal. Or, you continue to send the mob after me here and I am forced to close my account.

That wasn't the deal presented, you hoped they were different and good. He had no idea if they were good at all. You asked to hold back 500 pending them being good. He shouldn't have even allowed that. He's getting screwed out of money because your fishing expedition failed. You choose the terms of the deal, you need to pay up.

How would someone like Ted know if the EPROMs were "one of a kind" or "two of a kind" (matching the other existing LazerLord)?

How would someone like Ted know if you simply lied to him and said that the EPROMs were "two of a kind", when really they were indeed "one of a kind"?

You held back $500 to see if the game ROMs were good and if the game booted. They were good, the game booted.

Ted trusted you to keep your word -----> Now pay the money you owe .

Any real man keeps his word (just in case you never had a dad to teach you anything).

I have a one of a kind game, that uses the same roms as other games. Still one of a kind. There was no way in knowing if the programming was changed or not. The deal was for working roms for that particular game. If that's the roms the game had, that's the roms it's suppose to have. Nobody knew that. but the roms were working, so if they would have been altered versions, they still would have been working. the game is the way it was suppose to be. Personally, i'd still be happy. You have a working playing one of a kind game. that was way cheaper that I usually pay for my ultra rare stuff.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that we hadn't heard your side of the story. Now hearing it, you owe him $500. You say "The 500 was your risk that the eproms were one of a kind and good". NOWHERE was this mentioned in your dealings with Ted. And you knew that Ted was new to pinball, and would have no way of knowing if they were unique. His agreement were that the Eproms were readable. They were. You probably didn't even consider whether they would be the same, but after they ended up being the same, you got caught in a conundrum. It's laughable that you suggest he be the bigger man?? Bigger than who? You??? And your veiled threat that he'd have to go to court to collect and that he's on shaky ground...that's pretty small. There's no mob mentality here that I see. Just a reasonable conclusion by the majority that you need to honor the agreement. Noone is threatening you, or going to show up at your door. But chances are, you are harming your reputation as a fair and decent trader in pinball.

I don't really see what the difference is if those are the proper roms for the game and they work.

And, nobody knows if LL#2 has the same ROMs that are on the IPBD.

The IPBD ROMs were around BEFORE LL#2 was even known to exist (I had them on floppy disc).

We'd have to dump LL#2's ROMs to see if they match the LL#1 (whitewood) ROMs.

LL#2 does not have Multiball, and the LL#1 does......

Looks like MI is nothing but scammers, Dayhuff and Schudel need to move before they get infected with the scam virus.

Ok Ken. All of the stuff you are saying has nothing to do about the facts here. Im not going to come to Michigan to file a claim against you. The personal messages we had says it all. Im guessing you should just delete this account and all of the rest of them too because people will all know what kind of guy you are and i will make sure of that for sure!!!!!

Um no, you went & picked up the game in Yorkville IL correct? If so, that is where the deal was consummated and transaction took place. It gets filed in Kendall County IL.

Why don't you just be the bigger man and honor the deal YOU made? I would decline the $250 as well because that's what you owe.

Your fault, you pay. This is your admission that you NEVER said they had to be unique/one of a kind. Nothing implied at all.

C'mon man. The $500 was to protect you from ending up with a doorstop.

Scenario 1(yours): You get the game to boot up with the existing ROMs and they seem to be correct (i.e. rules match, switches & lamps correct, etc.) Your safety net is not needed and you pay the $500.

Scenario 2: ROMs are bad and game doesn't boot. You burn a new set from IPDB, it boots and they seem to be correct. Safety net not needed, you pay the $500.

Scenario 3: Bad ROMs. IPDB ROMs don't work. Game is dead in the water. You keep the $500.

So tell me this..... If you told Ted, "Just keep the ROMs, I'm going to try to use the ones on IPDB." Do you honestly think he would have let you take it for $500 less and then come back and give him the $500 for the ROMs if it didn't work?

Great points, however he already deactivated his account.

Well then I'll stop following his blog and cancel my trip to the Zoo.