(Topic ID: 197518)

Lazer Lord prototype


By tedandjen

1 year ago



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  • 128 posts
  • 53 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by
  • Topic is favorited by 22 Pinsiders

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#51 1 year ago

It would be nice to see a closer picture to read the text from the dip switch sheet inside the backbox.

#52 1 year ago

hello.
this is ted the original poster of the ad. i JUST realized there is a thread where the discussions are happening for my lazer lord find. As you can see in my ad post, that i advised you all that i am NEW to this site. And not sure how to even navigate it. I mentioned to please bear with me. I noticed alot of not so nice comments directed at me. This is like high school antics on here. haha. As far as the forum goes..i understand this is not an auction site. there again, i am new to this. i apologize if i did anything wrong with posting about my pinball machine. for real, in all seriousness, here are some facts..
i purchased the game from a customer of mine who was in posession of it and had no history or interest in the game. it was kind of a barn find. the only reason i have the game is because i wanted a pinball machine for my home. the game was buried under loads of junk and when i saw it, i thought it was a piece of crap. when i got it home, i started poking around the internet and found more info out and that it possibly wasnt junk. I did contact Stern and spoke to Gary Stern jr. he seemed uninterested. he did ask me to send pictures of it and is to call me back. i have since called Stern again with no response back.
i have answered every PM in a timely manner. i am willing to take more pictures but all we have are camera phones. my wife has a better phone than i do and i could take more pictures but they will not be like a professional photographer. she could take pictures and send them by email or text if you would like.
i just want everyone to know i have not been ignoring anyone on here, like i said, i just now noticed the discussions that have been going on about my game, on this forum.
Thanks, Ted

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#53 1 year ago
Quoted from tedandjen:

I noticed alot of not so nice comments directed at me. This is like high school antics on here.

High School ?????

Pinside is more like a kindergarten..............for retarded kids.

#54 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

High School ?????
Pinside is more like a kindergarten..............for retarded kids.

ha ha. im glad someone agrees with me =)

#55 1 year ago

You're right about the atmosphere around here, but I don't think there has been any ill intent towards you here. People are really excited about your find and making suggestions without any knowledge about your pinball ability. Because you're new most assume you don't have a lot, but that's ok because you're new! Now that you found the discussion part of this thread, we hope you contribute more so we can help!

#56 1 year ago

Yeah, this thread has been pretty well behaved for Pinside.

#57 1 year ago
Quoted from tedandjen:

hello.
this is ted the original poster of the ad. i JUST realized there is a thread where the discussions are happening for my lazer lord find. As you can see in my ad post, that i advised you all that i am NEW to this site. And not sure how to even navigate it. I mentioned to please bear with me. I noticed alot of not so nice comments directed at me. This is like high school antics on here. haha. As far as the forum goes..i understand this is not an auction site. there again, i am new to this. i apologize if i did anything wrong with posting about my pinball machine. for real, in all seriousness, here are some facts..
i purchased the game from a customer of mine who was in posession of it and had no history or interest in the game. it was kind of a barn find. the only reason i have the game is because i wanted a pinball machine for my home. the game was buried under loads of junk and when i saw it, i thought it was a piece of crap. when i got it home, i started poking around the internet and found more info out and that it possibly wasnt junk. I did contact Stern and spoke to Gary Stern jr. he seemed uninterested. he did ask me to send pictures of it and is to call me back. i have since called Stern again with no response back.
i have answered every PM in a timely manner. i am willing to take more pictures but all we have are camera phones. my wife has a better phone than i do and i could take more pictures but they will not be like a professional photographer. she could take pictures and send them by email or text if you would like.
i just want everyone to know i have not been ignoring anyone on here, like i said, i just now noticed the discussions that have been going on about my game, on this forum.
Thanks, Ted

In a situation like this, a lot of the comments are mostly joking but coming from a place of excitement for what could be a super rare, like holy grail level rare game. I'm guilty myself, it just seemed too good to be true. Things like this don't happen all time or incredibly rarely. For that I apologize and I hope you are receiving good council. Congrats on the find! This is like man finds Picasso at garage sale level stuff!

#58 1 year ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

In a situation like this, a lot of the comments are mostly joking but coming from a place of excitement for what could be a super rare, like holy grail level rare game. I'm guilty myself, it just seemed too good to be true. Things like this don't happen all time or incredibly rarely. For that I apologize and I hope you are receiving good council. Congrats on the find! This is like man finds Picasso at garage sale level stuff!

When you think about it every company likely made at least 5 to 10 whitewood machines trying different things prior to actually putting a machine into production. Most of those likely ended up getting taken apart or trashed but I don't see it all that odd for a few to still be sitting in barns somewhere.

It would be way too much work to build a "one off" machine trying to sucker someone into thinking it was something rare. So logic tells me this is truly a rare find. My question is how many people actually care to have something like this taking up space in their collection?

I would love to see a poll from people with what they think a "fair" value on something like this is. My guess is north of $3000 and south of $6000 but where in between I wouldn't have a clue. I think it just depends on how bad two people want it.

#59 1 year ago
Quoted from too-many-pins:

When you think about it every company likely made at least 5 to 10 whitewood machines trying different things prior to actually putting a machine into production. Most of those likely ended up getting taken apart or trashed but I don't see it all that odd for a few to still be sitting in barns somewhere.
It would be way too much work to build a "one off" machine trying to sucker someone into thinking it was something rare. So logic tells me this is truly a rare find. My question is how many people actually care to have something like this taking up space in their collection?
I would love to see a poll from people with what they think a "fair" value on something like this is. My guess is north of $3000 and south of $6000 but where in between I wouldn't have a clue. I think it just depends on how bad two people want it.

I think this is hard core collector stuff. People that are worrying about having room in their gameroom aren't the people that are gonna be interested in this pin. It was the great shoulda, coulda, woulda from Stern Electronics and the name Lazer Lord is well known in the collector's circle. I couldn't venture a guess at price because this is the only known whitewood to ever come up for sale. It depends who wants it the most and I think it will be handled privately.

#60 1 year ago

If this is accurate, it answers a critical history question that was asked by a fellow operator/technician/collector a while back.
There is more than one prototype of Lazer Lord.
I have only seen one, and some extra parts, including one additional backglass.
Not everyone is a pintard.

Added 23 months ago: "Not all games are worth their weight in gold, especially when they were not protected."

#61 1 year ago
Quoted from too-many-pins:

I would love to see a poll from people with what they think a "fair" value on something like this is. My guess is north of $3000 and south of $6000 but where in between I wouldn't have a clue. I think it just depends on how bad two people want it.

My guess is 5k, but if there are two collectors into this sort of item I could see it going up to 10k.

This is not the sort of item that would ever have a spot in my collection but it really is super cool and right up the alley for several collectors I'm sure.

I'd love to know more of this games history. Hopefully theblackknight or someone will give us some data on the game (this one and the one that sold on eBay a few years ago).

#62 1 year ago

We talk a lot about making a group buy, couple hardcore collector here in canada to duplicated it and make a couple working pins from it... i already built a stargazer from scratch, so it's something we can handle. But since we don't know if the pin work and the roms are ok... it's a big risk to buy without seeing it. The seller is pretty far from us to have a quick look at it

Hope someone will buy it in the optics of have it work

#63 1 year ago
Quoted from Redketchup:

We talk a lot about making a group buy, couple hardcore collector here in canada to duplicated it and make a couple working pins from it... i already built a stargazer from scratch, so it's something we can handle. But since we don't know if the pin work and the roms are ok... it's a big risk to buy without seeing it. The seller is pretty far from us to have a quick look at it
Hope someone will buy it in the optics of have it work

Yep, we could do it, Gino, and make few more Lazer Lords for other classic Stern pinball fanatics. Could be awesome.

But we don't know if the game is playable. Spoke to Ted for a while the other day and we got along but I'm 9 hour drive away, darnit. And would not be excited with a $3000+ dust collector.

I just hope if this pin is playable, it gets shared. Looks like another nifty Joe Joos Jr. layout. Really dig my Catacomb and Quicksilver!

#64 1 year ago
Quoted from OTTOgd:

But we don't know if the game is playable.

From the looks of it, it does need more flushing out. I think the playfield should be scanned
and CGed out and tested for flow and tweaking with the angles and targets. I think the top
3 bank should have been D/T and not stationary targets. That is just my input.

#65 1 year ago

Which one is the actual LL prototype? Both appear to have a different layout and why would Stern think about putting a game with a rethemed prototype into production (Quicksilver)? Did they ever do that previously?

#66 1 year ago

Cool find

That backglass is freakin awesome

#67 1 year ago
Quoted from Methos:

Which one is the actual LL prototype? Both appear to have a different layout and why would Stern think about putting a game with a rethemed prototype into production (Quicksilver)? Did they ever do that previously?

Time machine time... 1982 that is the year the coin industry collapsed. LL prototype is in white wood
form and the production plug is pulled etc, etc, etc.
1984 pinball is coming out of the "back to basics" movement slump.
At this moment in time, Williams would be on there last leg and had two games at the AMOA
show Star Light a rethemed Laser Ball in a conventional cabinet along with Space Shuttle
concept by Joe kaminkow. I believe at this show Stern had to produce a game trying to save the
company, so they already were advertising Laser Lord in the trade magazines so....
The cheap way out was to take a less known layout re-theme it like Williams did for Star Light
and hope it sells. The rest they say is pinball history... Spac Shuttle is a hit and stern goes under.
Gottlieb would scrape by as well as Bally. Bally would sell out to Williams and Gottlieb would be
rebooted has Premier technologies. Stern would come back has Data East.

#68 1 year ago
Quoted from Methos:

Which one is the actual LL prototype? Both appear to have a different layout and why would Stern think about putting a game with a rethemed prototype into production (Quicksilver)? Did they ever do that previously?

To me it seems "fairly simple" as a business owner and also someone who has been through some tough times in the past. The way I see it is Seeburg/Stern started developing a new playfield design which cost a ton of money (the machine listed here with unique playfield design) then one day at a meeting someone says "instead of wasting more money and time on development of that design lets just use an existing playfield design no one will notice or care".

The quicksilver playfield already had all the CNC stuff figured out so instead of working from blueprints to make something new (with all the issues that go along with that) they toss in the towel on this design and just re-theme Quicksilver. If I am correct with this line of thought the playfield here would be the "actual" layout intended to be used on the "new" LL machine but that was scraped to save time and money. From the business standpoint that would make the most sense.

And from past history we all know pictures on some of the flyers were much different than the picture of the actual machine once it was finally released. Flyers were published & sent out long before finalized design was finished in many cases. So since the flier actually used a rethemed Quicksilver what better playfield layout to use when building the first and only actual machine to have art on it?

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#69 1 year ago

Thank you everyone for the info and opinions. I have Duncan Brown coming tomorrow morning to take some high rez pictures for IPDB

#70 1 year ago

Bookmarked...want to see the high rez pics and any discovery of history. And FYI, if Gary Stern is uninterested, kind of solidifies what I've thought of him. All about the $$$, not the history of pinball. Which is fine. Man's gotta make a living.

#71 1 year ago

Very cool find. Subscribed...

#72 1 year ago
Quoted from robertmee:

Bookmarked...want to see the high rez pics and any discovery of history. And FYI, if Gary Stern is uninterested, kind of solidifies what I've thought of him. All about the $$$, not the history of pinball. Which is fine. Man's gotta make a living.

Most people doing something for a living don't care about the hobby aspect of their business so I wouldn't expect Gary Stern to be any different. Thankfully there are still some people in the hobby for the hobby but I know over the past few years less & less people are in the hobby to enjoy pinball and more & more people have come into the hobby trying to profit from the new found popularity of the silver ball. That is kind of sad in some ways but on the other hand it is adding new products that might now ever been added. So in a way it is good for the hobby.

#73 1 year ago

Why would anybody expect Gary to care about this?

Pinball has put a roof over his head for his entire life.

If you are a plumber like your dad before you, you probably wouldn't really care about some rare prototype pipe fitting from 40 years ago. Gary would never bash any of us for failing to be sufficiently in wonder over the history of whatever 9 to 5 we have, we should extend him the same courtesy.

#74 1 year ago

You're right Levi . It always seems like Mr. Stern doesn't really want to be bothered by hobbyists asking about the "old company", but the OP did say Mr. Stern wanted to see the pictures so he is at least curious. Someone has to know something or care, maybe another former employee?

#75 1 year ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

Someone has to know something or care, maybe another former employee

That's what I was thinking. There is someone who cares about this issue beside us collectors. Perhaps an artist or someone who worked on the game. Really looking forward to hearing from them.

#76 1 year ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

You're right Levi . It always seems like Mr. Stern doesn't really want to be bothered by hobbyists asking about the "old company", but the OP did say Mr. Stern wanted to see the pictures so he is at least curious. Someone has to know something or care, maybe another former employee?

Maybe he was being polite. Or was trying to figure out if someone had stolen something from him (I'm leaning toward that). Or maybe he really cares! We may never know.

#77 1 year ago

Maybe this is the reason for the kickstarter book delays!

#78 1 year ago

I emailed Stern today. Hello Gary. This is Ted. I spoke to you last week about the lazer lord pin I have. I have sent you pictures last week and called a few times with no response. I understand you are a busy man and I get it. I was just wanting to ask you a couple questions about the game like is this a real white board and if it is why is it different than the flyer and other known prototype. Thanks Ted
His Response was. Sorry
My daughter getting married this weekend so double busy

#79 1 year ago
Quoted from tedandjen:

I emailed Stern today. Hello Gary. This is Ted. I spoke to you last week about the lazer lord pin I have. I have sent you pictures last week and called a few times with no response. I understand you are a busy man and I get it. I was just wanting to ask you a couple questions about the game like is this a real white board and if it is why is it different than the flyer and other known prototype. Thanks Ted
His Response was. Sorry
My daughter getting married this weekend so double busy

There is no way on God's green Earth Gary knows the answers to any of those questions. I'd stop bugging him. You need to find someone a little further down the trough who was actually involved in that stuff. Is Steve Kirk still alive?

#80 1 year ago

I'd start with the designer Joe Joos Jr.

#81 1 year ago
Quoted from raddroxx:

I'd start with the designer Joe Joos Jr.

I would too if he hadn't been dead for 22 years!

(as any jackbot owner knows!)

#82 1 year ago

that i didn't know. Never owned a jackbot

#83 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

There is no way on God's green Earth Gary knows the answers to any of those questions. I'd stop bugging him. You need to find someone a little further down the trough who was actually involved in that stuff. Is Steve Kirk still alive?

Steve died years ago.

#84 1 year ago

This is one of the coolest things I've read on pinside in a long time congrats on finding it. I hope you can find someone that knows the history and can share it with all of us. As a side note one of my pinball friends is a plumber in Yorkville and I can't wait to tell him it could have been him that found it.

#85 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I would too if he hadn't been dead for 22 years!
(as any jackbot owner knows!)

Ok, I'm curious--how is Jackbot associated with Joe Joos?

#86 1 year ago

IPDB has build date as October 1984. Dates written on chips on board as 6/8/82

#87 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Ok, I'm curious--how is Jackbot associate with Joed Joos?

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/3619/Williams_1995_Jack_Bot_English_Manual.pdf

3rd page down in the Jackbot manual has a dedication to Joe Joos Jr.

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#88 1 year ago
Quoted from tedandjen:

His Response was. Sorry
My daughter getting married this weekend so double busy

I'll bet it's going to be one heck of a wedding after all that money made on BM66 super LE!!

#89 1 year ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

3rd page down in the Jackbot manual has a dedication to Joe Joos Jr.

Thanks for sharing,interesting stuff.
-Mike

#90 1 year ago

It's not just in the manual it's in the attract mode "Dedicated to Joe Joos Jr."

If you press the blinking cheat button when the dedication line comes up, it will scroll the entire dedication as shown in the manual. Very cool.

#91 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's not just in the manual it's in the attract mode "Dedicated to Joe Joos Jr."
If you press the blinking cheat button when the dedication line comes up, it will scroll the entire dedication as shown in the manual. Very cool.

I never knew that! O_O

#92 1 year ago
Quoted from gunstarhero:

I never knew that! O_O

If a button blinks, you gotta push it.

#93 1 year ago
Quoted from raddroxx:

I'd start with the designer Joe Joos Jr.

Fortune_Teller (resized).jpg

#94 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

If a button blinks, you gotta push it.

That is really awesome and a very heartfelt little tribute.

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#95 1 year ago
Quoted from DennisDodel:

Steve died years ago.

I heard before he died Steve was having a hard go of it and was homeless. A shame for such a talented man. RIP Steve and Joe.

#96 1 year ago
Quoted from Redketchup:

We talk a lot about making a group buy, couple hardcore collector here in canada to duplicated it and make a couple working pins from it... i already built a stargazer from scratch, so it's something we can handle. But since we don't know if the pin work and the roms are ok... it's a big risk to buy without seeing it. The seller is pretty far from us to have a quick look at it

Hope someone will buy it in the optics of have it work

I would buy it and take it to TPF like I do my Gamatron whitewood and doing with the Andromeda whitewood. Both whitewoods and production games. The game needs to be working at a show. That is what I talked to Ted about.

#97 1 year ago

OK. History lesson: Pizza Hut, you know, that Pizza Hut, with stuffed crust and all that jazz was founded in my town by two brothers in 1958. It was a little bitty old building that was part of the reason "Hut" became part of the name. This building was originally located about 3 miles from me on the highway going through town. Around 1978 or 1979 the city was planning on moving and widening the highway so the original Pizza Hut building was slated to be torn down, or otherwise in someway disposed of.
+++++++++++++++

I started my first college class in 1979. It was a class on Entrepreneurship. The professor was going nuts over this Pizza Hut building and wanted it on campus as a historical piece. The class consisted of lots or lectures by different local businessmen. Frank Carney, one of the co-founding brothers was a guess speaker.

During question and answer session a student asked Frank if he had any nostalgic memories of his start up building and was he going to contribute any money to help pay for re-location. This is what he said (loosely quoted), "I burned my hands on the oven too many times and bumped my head on (whatever it was) to have any fond memories of that building. I have a business to run and I'm interested in looking to the future as opposed to living in the past". The words were something along these lines. He was not interested in the building.

As stated, the professor was interested and managed to get the building moved to campus where it sits to this day.

History lesson over.
+++++++++++++++++++++++

Gary Stern is probably the same way about these old Stern pins. He is probably too busy to play any of them. Running the business is probably all of the action he needs.

When you are building or selling something you are not usually too interested on collecting what ever it is you are selling. A couple of car dealer friends on mine like to collect the old cars and speculate that they might be worth lots of money years from now but most are happy to turn the car fast, make a decent profit, and pay the bills right now. The monthly nut never goes away. The future is out there somewhere.

Ask Levi. I'd be willing to bet of all the pins he has sold that one or two have appreciated wildly in price and are now worth a fortune but when he sold a long time ago he reinvested and bought another pin and resold that pin and reinvested and the cumulative profits over the years probably equal or exceed the "fortune he could have made" by sitting on that one machine.

So, while we get all lathered up about an obscure pinball machine, Gary Stern is busy running his business today. Besides, didn't he get a divorce and his ex-wife wind up with most, or all, of the company's assets? If so, that could really leave a sour taste in his/your mouth.

I can see why he couldn't care less about these old Sterns.

#98 1 year ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

I think this is hard core collector stuff. People that are worrying about having room in their gameroom aren't the people that are gonna be interested in this pin. It was the great shoulda, coulda, woulda from Stern Electronics and the name Lazer Lord is well known in the collector's circle. I couldn't venture a guess at price because this is the only known whitewood to ever come up for sale. It depends who wants it the most and I think it will be handled privately.

Like you said. Its a legit whitewood and you have got to want this stuff. I currently have the Gamatron Whitewood and Steve Kirks original game and also just got the Andromeda Whitewood which I was aware of because an old business partner ended up pulling it from Gameplan when they went out of business. I have also at one point had all of the Brooks and Dunn stuff which is long gone. This type of stuff is not for everyone and to get it running is another mess. This LL is a neat piece. I have been fortunate to have all of Steve Kirk's Gamatron stuff and very fortunate to get back the Andromeda whitewood which will be at the TPF with an original working example also like the Gamatron games this year. I also have the 2nd run print of the Gamatron playfield which would be kinda cool to be in a game at some point. Anyway this is fascinating stuff to me. I should of just bought the original when I had the chance.

#99 1 year ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

OK. History lesson: Pizza Hut, you know, that Pizza Hut, with stuffed crust and all that jazz was founded in my town by two brothers in 1958. It was a little bitty old building that was part of the reason "Hut" became part of the name. This building was originally located about 3 miles from me on the highway going through town. Around 1978 or 1979 the city was planning on moving and widening the highway so the original Pizza Hut building was slated to be torn down, or otherwise in someway disposed of.
+++++++++++++++
I started my first college class in 1979. It was a class on Entrepreneurship. The professor was going nuts over this Pizza Hut building and wanted it on campus as a historical piece. The class consisted of lots or lectures by different local businessmen. Frank Carney, one of the co-founding brothers was a guess speaker.
During question and answer session a student asked Frank if he had any nostalgic memories of his start up building and was he going to contribute any money to help pay for re-location. This is what he said (loosely quoted), "I burned my hands on the oven too many times and bumped my head on (whatever it was) to have any fond memories of that building. I have a business to run and I'm interested in looking to the future as opposed to living in the past". The words were something along these lines. He was not interested in the building.
As stated, the professor was interested and managed to get the building moved to campus where it sits to this day.
History lesson over.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Gary Stern is probably the same way about these old Stern pins. He is probably too busy to play any of them. Running the business is probably all of the action he needs.
When you are building or selling something you are not usually too interested on collecting what ever it is you are selling. A couple of car dealer friends on mine like to collect the old cars and speculate that they might be worth lots of money years from now but most are happy to turn the car fast, make a decent profit, and pay the bills right now. The monthly nut never goes away. The future is out there somewhere.
Ask Levi. I'd be willing to bet of all the pins he has sold that one or two have appreciated wildly in price and are now worth a fortune but when he sold a long time ago he reinvested and bought another pin and resold that pin and reinvested and the cumulative profits over the years probably equal or exceed the "fortune he could have made" by sitting on that one machine.
So, while we get all lathered up about an obscure pinball machine, Gary Stern is busy running his business today. Besides, didn't he get a divorce and his ex-wife wind up with most, or all, of the company's assets? If so, that could really leave a sour taste in his/your mouth.
I can see why he couldn't care less about these old Sterns.

When he plays them at the Texas Pinball Festival he is fascinated but not like he wants to talk about reproduction and definitely doesn't know much about any of them. He has moved on and that is OK. The Gamatron whitewood though he knows. Oh so well.

#100 1 year ago
Quoted from Classic_Stern:

When he plays them at the Texas Pinball Festival he is fascinated but not like he wants to talk about reproduction and definitely doesn't know much about any of them. He has moved on and that is OK. The Gamatron whitewood though he knows. Oh so well.

I wonder if we could get him to talk some (5-10 minutes) about classic Sterns at the TPF seminar in 2018 (I'm assuming he's talking). Seems like that would be a slightly different topic than beer, which he has seemed to enjoy talking about lately.

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