It's a sad day.

It's a sad day, not because JJP's estimate is wrong.
It's a sad day because Exejet is right.
Again.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day...

everything about the machine looks great to me, I just can't get past that annoying music

Amen!

Sincerely looking forward to the experience, whenever it is ready,
Ryan Claytor
Elephant Eater Comics
www.ElephantEater.com

Where is Alex ? You know, the guy in the know ?

Jim

"Talking" to Jack?

Lol

Jim, I thought it was remarks like these that led you to take a Pinside leave a couple of weeks back. And now you are the one making them? Uncool.

No, that is not the reason Robin .. I was attack for showing a mod to a game and trying to help people .I was actually showing real parts on a real game . I took it personal and took my ball home ..

I am over it now and I did act immaturely .

Alex and me are fine, I was just jabbing a little .. No be deal . I should have left it alone but I didn't. He is the one who made a bet and said he would leave if WOZ was not out before the end of the month. I was just wondering if that really happened ? Sorry

Jim

I'm actually in the same boat. I'm renovating a new building to house my collection and it's not yet ready, and until then, I really don't know where I could put the machine. I've already got a half dozen games at friends' houses right now. I'm all in favor of them taking their time. I understand though, that others are anxious. We all are, but I'd rather them take their time and get a chance to put the game on location and run it through its paces than do what Stern is doing which is push unfinished games out the door. In the heyday of pinball, it wasn't unusual for manufacturers to produce a hundred or more sample games and fully-test them before they went into main production.

Okay, don't worry about it but I'm a bit annoyed by the recent personal crap between some members and felt like reacting.

Good point. Think of all the prototype TZ games - you can read about it here.

I'm gonna be working on the electricity for my home gameroom. Two 16A groups for the six games I'm gonna be keeping at home. Getting close to finishing!

Forums are made for bickering ...it is the nature of the beast and unfortunately inevidiable..

Some arguing back and forth is okay pinheads will always have something to disagree about. What is not okay and will not be tolerated are nasty personal exchanges with nothing but name calling and attacks on the other party to prod further nasty exchanges.

I think that is a bunch of crap!

I disagree!

Further to Gerry's post, I believe forums such as this are also for easy mass exchange of technical info, group aid on troubleshooting problems, status updates such as "latest update from Jack on WOZ.....", etc.

Btw, I am so twisted around on this thread now that I'm not sure what exactly is the "latest" update. Basically, one big issue is whether or not some WOZ machines will be somewhere out on test by midnight tonight or not. And is the answer "unfortunately, not yet"?
Anyone care to briefly summarize for us?

Have a great holiday weekend Pinsiders/Pinheads!!

That is because you are a gorilla and gorillas are less prone to flinging poop than the other primates.

Sorry, I've never seen pictures or playfield layouts or really looked in to the design of woz, just so you know where I'm coming from. How has this new designer pushed Stern to a new level???

I'm really excited about the prospect of there being more manufacturers of pinball in the future. Really really excited. But I am not seeing how one-off rethemed tables (love the Ghostbuster and the Ferrari ones!!) , a botique shop making a few dozen tables (sorry can't remember the name or table), or even a larger scale start up with plans for 1000 future tables (JJP) have affected Stern's pinball in any measurable way.

Hopefully someone can explain it to me and please don't get offended because of my lack of knowledge in this area... Just curious how this 'has' pushed Stern to a new level.

All you have to do is look at the games Stern was putting out before & after the announcement that JJP was getting into the business of making games to realize the effect they had on their product. That and look at all the talent they brought back into their building.

Best thing thats happened to pinball in quite some time.

Was it because of JJP's announcement that Stern added more talent or was it that the market had simply increased demand? Actually, I suppose you can't really separate causes and effects in sucha complex market.

I guess I am just asking what exactly is Stern doing now because of JJP working on a table. Your answer that Stern has brought back a lot of talent in to their building would be one answer. Can anyone show that Stern did that because of JJP then?

Stern is trying to put more features into their games to match JJP. That is one of the main differences. Just look at the functionality of the Joker toy in BDK and you can see a missed opportunity to make something great.

So adding more talent, and including more features in their games... but can anyone say that it is because of JJP? (I really am not bashing, so don't jump on me. I'm just looking for some proof of the claims)

It sounds like Tesla fans claiming that GM has had to totally redo their strategies, the difference being there are Tesla's out on the road. Though I doubt GM really cares in this case.

Avatar, TRS and Tron were all on the drawing board before JJP was announced. All had LE models. IM 'classic' was before that.

The talent they brought back was right after the new investors arrived. Long before JJP was announced. For better or worse, the new investors are the ones that changed directions at Stern. JJP is definitely a consideration in their current marketing strategy (hurry!), but suggesting JJP is the sole reason for Stern's change in direction simply isn't true.

Well Gary is certainly not going to admit it, so "proof" is a tough one here. You gotta admit though the games from Stern are far less "stripped down" the last couple of years, so something changed.....for the better!

Also, the pinball market is much more limited than the car industry. If one company is making a luxurious pin for $7000 and the other company is selling an ordinary pin for $6500 there will be a huge imbalance in sales eventually, especially if they make about the same number of titles per year. Both companies will have to match each other to continue to succeed.

True enough, but I think that Stern's model is to produce at least four new pins per year, while it sounds like JJP will do one new pin per year - maybe two once they get their processes rolling along.

I'm not sure what talent you are referring to, but you seem to have the timeline a bit off. JJP announces in Jan 11. Stern brings back Ritchie and Sheats in Mar 11. Stern brings back Gomez in July 11. You seriously see no correlation there?

Investor infusion no?

It takes a year+ to design a pinball machine, so much was already underway long before WOZ .

Sorry guys, I just don't buy that JJP had little impact. I saw what Stern was doing before JJP. I saw it change after JJP announced. I don't see how you can deny that. And why wouldn't Stern respond and attempt to squash the competition? It only makes sense.

Investors came in Nov 09. Before all the "Costco" models and continued the less is more direction.

Avatar, TRS and Tron LE's were either built or on the drawing board long before JJP was announced. Did Gary know Jack was going to start a company even before Jack knew?

These threads are so stupid. Can't believe I let myself get sucked into this one. STERN RUWLS!!!

Dude, I only responded to the misinformation YOU posted. I'm a fan of both companies and own more Sterns than anything else. Doesn't mean I can't acknowledge they were going in a questionable direction before JJP.

Most pinsiders ( not me since I have not played them) seem to think that 2 of those games suck so that helps to show that the games before JJP but after SM were not so good.

Ok what about TSPP, LOTR, & SM all great pins with cool features. Implying Stern only started to build great pins with cool features once JJP hit the scene is a bit short sighted IMO. Tron was awesome because of the talented team building it was great. I think the same can be said for AC/DC and XM.

Now if you all were saying JJP pushed Stern to develope and incorporate new features in pins like LCD screens and LEDs I would be inclined to agree with you there.

It is BS that a company that has not even released a pin gets all the credit for Stern making the great pins they have recently released. Sure lets ignore all the talent on the teams making these pins and give credit to another company. It's taking it a bit far IMO but hey love to see all the enthusiasm for pinball.

_{Post edited by The_Dude_Abides : Add one last comment on the issue.}

Mmm, I think when most people talk about JJP spurring Stern to produce higher quality and more feature-filled machines, they're talking about post Spider-man, and specifically around 2009 when the massive cutbacks began taking effect.

Maybe an ASCII graph of subjective Stern quality levels would help...

2000 *
2001 ***
2002 **
2003 ******
2004 ****
2005 ***
2006 ****
2007 ******
2008 ***
2009 *
2010 ***
2011 *****
2012 ****

That's all my personal opinion, of course, but it actually looks like the Stern rollercoaster may have been due for some good games in 2011 anyways!

ASCII KICKS ASS!

83640bc02ce1fa1df518959b2695ce27.jpg

I love ascii art and ANSI art..

That was supposed to be animated, but it didn't....

Try this:

http://gifsrus.zxq.net/ascii/ascii2.php

Stop bumping the thread with rubbish.

Stern's best means of advertising and exposure is now WOZ update threads..... love it!!

It's FILLED with rubbish there captain.

Cool stuff! Thanks!

Well I can't deny that JJP will have an effect on Stern, as I can't provide evidence one way or the other. Mostly because I don't really care, just as long as prices don't go UP because of some future competition. As there is only one manufacturer today it's all just internet chatter. It still has yet to be seen how many tables any new manufacturer can produce in a year, once they begin production... I can't wait to get more variety and tables coming out!

Can someone sumarize the latest on WOZ? I know a few weeks back Jack said he had trouble getting materials from his vendors, but I assume that is resolved. Is that the last update? I guess there are no dates released for the demo game at the arcade yet? Its hard getting anything out of this thread as it was certainly derailed off topic

I guess there will be a game at PPE, I don't think it is a finished game just one that will show the progress to this point.
If the monkey flies I may be in, I have no idea where I would put it since I am out of room.

You forgot they were going the cost cutting features route before JJP - plastic aprons, no playfield brackets, change of lock down mechs. Gary even posed a question wondering how important DMD animation was implying that might be on the chopping block. The whole thing that Gary did to Steve over Avatar- JJP announces Jan. 2 years ago WOZ, Gomez and Ritchie only a couple months later are hired back by Stern tripling their development staff.

Not saying JJP is the only reason Stern stepped up their game, because it is not, but it most definitely had a big influence. Too many coincidents on the timeline to not come to that conclusion.

Gary had never tapped into the home market before, telling people that the only way to save pinball was to dump coins into location, now his LE's/Premiums are aimed at a market JJP had specifically targeted. I really think Jack pointed the gameroom market out to Gary. Glad he did as Stern is making some nice stuff.

Maybe we should invent a few more scam companies that also will pretend to have new "revolutionary" games coming out.

We could trick Stern with even more vaporware.

Hey Vid, Could you keep us updated on previously mentioned factory? From what I read here, I think the community needs a reliable source as to when actual production may happen. Let us know when cars are in the lot day after day. Might kill some speculation, rumors, beliefs, etc...

So are you saying WoZ is a scam? Say it if you mean it. Dont beat around the bush. Everyone enjoys libelous commentary