(Topic ID: 105286)

Lastability in a two pin collection?


By Ika

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 70 posts
  • 51 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by gliebig
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Topic poll

“Which pin of these would have better lastability in a two pin gameroom?”

  • Congo 46 votes
    30%
  • No Good Gofers 48 votes
    31%
  • DE Tommy 15 votes
    10%
  • I wouldn't pick any of those, I suggested something else in the thread... 46 votes
    30%

(155 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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#1 6 years ago

I have one pin now. Thinking of getting another. The catch: small budget that will absolutely not change for the better and no room with also no prospects of changing for the better, and too much hassle of getting pins up on second floor, so no chance of changing those two when they becoming boring. If that happens, I'll end my misery by selling them and getting out of the hobby because it would mean I would never be satisfied enough....probable end though, unfortunately.

I own The Shadow. It's tough, unique, reasonably deep, very short ball times, sort of my ZEN man vs machine get-in-the-flow machine. I wouldn't sell it, because it is all good pinball game should be playwise. But not themewise or journeywise, though, because it is not enough.

For that second pin I'd choose something that is more of a journey, a bit longer ball times, to be more approachable to nonpinheads, but not an easy pin, something to be immersed in pinball experience. I'd buy LOTR, but living in a second-soon to be third-world country, that is not an option. Neither are A list pins as TAF, IJ, TOTAN, TZ, SS, AFM, MM etc....

from B listers that I find interesting I chose three, I need help thinking through which of those would have bigger lastability in such a small collection:

Congo - I like the jungle theme, feels adventurous, goal orientation seems fun, lots of multiballs with different rules, collecting diamonds, it just seems non linear to me and I think I need that. I even don't hate the movie.

No Good Gofers - chance to get Pat pin that is not overpriced, I prefer that theme to TAF, whirlwind or TZ for which I don't really care much, lots of modes, good art and sound, interactive gofers, hole in one shot, seems like an obvious choice. If I can find one for a normal price I'd prefer this one over Congo, although I wouldn't mind getting either of them. Probably rarer here than Congo, I know of couple of Congos, never saw this one.

backup choice: Tommy - mostly because of close-to-TAF layout, Lyman rules and lots of modes and cool wizard mode. I dislike the theme and close to hate the music. Couldn't care less about WHO. as for rarity there were a lot of them here.

these are all cheaper in Europe than in US.

which one of these would be fresh longer for you? can you recommend something else if you dislike these? I need good gameplay and rules and that something special vibe that some pins have. not like FT which got stale after a less than two weeks, beautiful pin that has nothing to shoot for beside multiballs, because monster fishes and fishing take you nowhere.

thanks

#2 6 years ago

I would vote for No Good Gofers!!! I just think its so much fun!!!

#3 6 years ago

Get both. Definetely.

#4 6 years ago

Tommy is a great game with lots of modes. I don't know if you'll be able to get past the theme and music because it really encompasses the entire game.

#5 6 years ago

I would get NGG. It does not have the high price and offers somewhat different experience than other Lawlor games.

#6 6 years ago

I think both are probably a good choice. I am not familiar with Congo. But I'll defer to the internet wisdom that it is a fun game. Gophers has one truly awesome shot that just never gets old, and some say the most satisfying shot in all of pinball (the Hole-in-One shot). I can certainly say that I have enjoyed Gophers a lot, playing it on location over the years.

I voted for Gophers.

Any chance you could pick up a more recent Stern? Maybe something like World Poker Tour?

#7 6 years ago

If your limited with budget and space I would hold off on a 2nd pin and invest in high end PC, the Oculus Rift DK2 and all 3 seasons of Pinball Arcade! I have a LOTR and even that crazy fun pin will get boring after 500 plays!
The Commercial VR unit is rumoured to be coming out in mid 2015. What you can do now with the development kit DK2 is astounding. I have been playing with the pinball arcade DK2 VR patch created by a pinsider and some of 50 pins available now are mind blowing in VR. Adams Family is coming out in Feb 2015!
More info:
https://github.com/cbdillon/PinballVRcade/wiki
https://www.youtube.com/embed/oaB5Y4kxVJg?autoplay=1&rel=0

Here is his post on Pinside and Reddit:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-vrcade#postbox
http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/2hno1u/pinball_vrcade_a_patch_for_pinball_arcade_that/

Your life after being introduced to VR:

image-292.jpg

#8 6 years ago

Though Congo is good NGG I enjoy much more. Another great second game that is price well, bride of pinbot, and another is T2 (or 3)

#9 6 years ago

Ika, do you buy pins overseas and have them shipped to Serbia? Or do you manage to find pins there? I remember playing in a bar in kraljevo when I was a teenager visiting family. Your decision might center on what you have access to purchase. If Tommy is available locally then great, if you have to import one and it costs you a ton but congo is available locally then that might influence your decision. WCS94 and judge dredd are fun, deep games you might consider as well.

#10 6 years ago

thanks for answers!

paulohotline: wow, interesting out of the box idea. hope this turns out to be an option in the future, there is too much pins that I won't be able to buy ever.

nikpinball: thanks for your comment.
No, I'm trying to find it here. Importing wouldn't be an option, because pins are cheaper here but all the taxes , shipping and paperwork make it tough to even export them one at a time with a profit from here (hence container deals), not to mention that it would be completely futile in other direction. My fund are limited enough so I can't afford TAF or some other A lister at our prices.
Probably this all would turn out to be a bit of fantasy, NGG is most likely not possible to be found out at normal price. I know of some Congos, and some prices are high but OKish, and some ridiculous. I've actually seen broken down Tommies, they don't get love here.

#11 6 years ago

I have just 2 pins (a Whirlwind and a Bally Vector) and space issues. Ultimately, I think a short-play difficult game (like a Pat Lawlor game) and an epic, deep game (like LOTR or TSPP) would complement each other well.

I would also say you should have an interest in the theme (even though The Who is an awesome game)

Lastly, the games with the tremendous depth are quite pricey, so I would consider getting what you can now and reconsider upgrading at a future date when it makes sense to. No need to limit yourself (it's impossible when it comes to this stuff!)

#12 6 years ago

Get Johnny Mnemonic.. tough pin, goes well with the Shadow.. and should be in the budget.

#13 6 years ago

I would add WPT and Stargate to that list.
- WPT: one of the cheapest recent sterns, and one of the deepest. Truly long lasting power.
- Stargate: under-rated because it's a Gottlieb, but a decent ruleset.

WPT is in the same price range as Tommy or NGG and Stargate is cheaper.

#14 6 years ago

JP is a reasonably priced pin that is difficult and has many modes. Loved mine. Miss it.

#15 6 years ago

I own Tommy, owned NGG, and have played a decent amount of Congo. I would rank them:

Tommy
Congo
NGG

NGG just isn't a particularly compelling game to play after a while, the software just isn't deep enough and there isn't a different wizard mode at the 18th hole. Tommy is the most challenging out of those games by a significant margin.

#17 6 years ago

Don't get a Tommy if you don't like the theme. It will always annoy you and you'll never be quite happy with it.

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from Kugelhagelfisch:

Don't get a Tommy if you don't like the theme. It will always annoy you and you'll never be quite happy with it.

I was about to say that. There are A-rated pins that I don't like because of the theme. I thought about buying NGG myself but just couldn't get into it. It seems like it has all the right ingredients but not the right chemistry. Maybe that is because I am not a golfer.

I have not played Congo but it seems to review well. Like Syco, I liked World Cup Soccer and it seemed to have a lot going on. Dr. Who is also another pin that surprised me when I first played it. I don't know how deep the rules are, though.

#19 6 years ago
Quoted from paulohotline:

Your life after being introduced to VR:

I've been following this for 2 years and there is no doubt about it, it's going to be huge.

#20 6 years ago

I would definitely go with Congo.

I own Congo and Gofers, and get to play Tommy with some regularity at another Pinsider's house, and Congo is hands-down the most fun of the three. Plus, it's not too difficult once you get used to it, so it compliments the difficulty of Shadow nicely.

#21 6 years ago

I havent had enough play on Congo, but I would put NGG on my short list for sure.

- underrated
- popular theme (though I like it and am not a golfer)
- nice art and fun sounds / songs
- a real backglass
- generally available at reasonable price levels
- lots of Lawlor features
- Pinsider working on new code to "finish" the game
- casual players seem to love the game

Only downside for me is that the game play is somewhat unfinished, but it's a keeper for me and I think a good fit in a small collection if you want a "modern" Lawlor.

#22 6 years ago
Quoted from thedefog:

JP is a reasonably priced pin that is difficult and has many modes. Loved mine. Miss it.

Ding ding ding!

This is what I thought of immediately. A layout that is in many ways "similar" to TAF which you noted as a good thing, a really popular machine for new players, difficult enough but not impossible, can easily have longer ball times...

As for your choices, NGG still has some code issues that eliminate it from consideration for me. Congo I just never quite understood the draw of. Tommy I own, but think that JP is by far the superior game to it as it stands right now.

However, no answer is going to be wrong

#23 6 years ago

You mention you have a small budget. Yet, these games can be in the $3k range easily if in nice condition. I guess you could always hope for a fixer upper.

#24 6 years ago

Lastability for the player or for the gameroom? The answer would be very different. The gameroom lastability one is easy. NGG hands down. All of my non-collector guests gravitate to NGG and really enjoy it. They talk about how fun it was to play to others after they visit. You can play and get mode gratification without knowing the ruleset. It is very intuitive. I have had my NGG for over six years and it has been trouble-free. I still enjoy playing it and especially playing it with guests.

Bill

#25 6 years ago
Quoted from Ika:

backup choice: Tommy - mostly because of close-to-TAF layout, Lyman rules and lots of modes and cool wizard mode. I dislike the theme and close to hate the music. Couldn't care less about WHO. as for rarity there were a lot of them here.

The like The Who a lot, but I don't think of it as a Who game. If you like the nice gameplay, great, but it is a very difficult pin, as is Shadow.

Do you really want two tough pins in the collection? I think you'd be better off with Congo, which is a very ball save forgiving game, and a lot of fun. So many cool shots, modes and multi-balls.

#26 6 years ago

I'm not sure on the lastability of NGG based on what you're looking for. I own a NGG and I love it, the theme is fantastic, but it's not a terribly deep game. It's great fun and the playfield has lots to do on it but you don't really go anywhere other than multiball and finishing holes (which I think enough), the modes are pretty secondary. With a p-roc or something there are lots of opportunities but that's true of lots of games. NGG is definitely great for non-pinheads and does have longer ball times but I'd choose something else if you're looking for something deep like LOTR. I like the flow of hitting the ramps and spinners and bashing away at the Gofers. Having them taunt you is good fun too during the game.

I'd say get pinball arcade and pay for the NGG table and see how you like it after a dozen games.

I won't be getting rid of mine anytime soon, so it's a keeper in my collection, it's just so much fun.

#27 6 years ago

NGG lasted 1month at my house. Fun then done, couldn't make myself turn it on. Tommy lasted the same time and I love the Who but the music is the broadway group . Tommy is deep though and there are many data easts that are deep and fun like Jurassic Park. Congo is ok but not very deep either. I have an 8 pin collection and NGG and Tommy did not come close to staying. Some that stayed a lot longer in this price range are Dirty Harry, JP, Whirlwind, Frankenstein, Dracula, No Fear, and Flintstones. Shadow is a great pin and I had it for a long time when my collection was only 4.

#28 6 years ago

Attack from Mars, Whirlwind or BSD. My undisputed favorite three games of all time. I've never started a game and didn't want to see it to the end on any of these.

#29 6 years ago

A BSD would probably be a really good choice although I'm not sure it qualifies as "approachable" for non-pinheads.

#30 6 years ago
Quoted from Kugelhagelfisch:

Don't get a Tommy if you don't like the theme. It will always annoy you and you'll never be quite happy with it.

Especially if you can't stand the music.

#31 6 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

I would add WPT and Stargate to that list.
- WPT: one of the cheapest recent sterns, and one of the deepest. Truly long lasting power.
- Stargate: under-rated because it's a Gottlieb, but a decent ruleset.
WPT is in the same price range as Tommy or NGG and Stargate is cheaper.

Here in south eastern Europe there are no much newer Sterns (maybe 10 in entire country) and even WPT would be several times more expensive than B/W/DE/Sega from 90s.
I thought about Stargate but it is too rare, it would be routed and playfields are not DP, I've seen one with enormous pf wear.

Quoted from balboarules:

Get Johnny Mnemonic.. tough pin, goes well with The Shadow.. and should be in the budget.

I thought about Johnny Mnemonic, I think it is a fast game but don't think it is too deep, maybe little repetitive chasing ramps for yakuza/throwing spikes kind of like what I have in Shadow with Vengeance.

Quoted from thedefog:

JP is a reasonably priced pin that is difficult and has many modes. Loved mine. Miss it.

I'm seriously considering JP even more because it is cheaper than those mentioned, but I don't have enough information about it beside layout. Have to check the rules, I currently have the wrong impression it is too shallow with rules (kind of start mode, shoot one hole, shoot other, start another etc...). How would you compare it to TAF? I thought it is like Whirlwind? Is there enough side shows to shoot beside modes, are modes like TAFs? Is it too easy?

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

You mention you have a small budget. Yet, these games can be in the $3k range easily if in nice condition. I guess you could always hope for a fixer upper.

It's Europe's poor cousin I live in, these are US prices you mention. Some of 3K pins are below 1K euro here like BSD or TS or JM, some are probably more like Congo (although I will search for a cheaper one), and WPT would probably be more expensive than 3K euro because there are none here and it is brand new.

I thought about it, I played one few weeks ago, to me it's poor man's TOTAN (which is good), with similar layout but better rules (IMHO rules on TOTAN are bad, but the theme and art and sound are the best) and worse theme. I know Bowen still has one at home and he sold his TZ, so it must have some appeal to serious players obviously. My country being enthusiastic about soccer has driven its price a bit, my consern is is it really a keeper?

Quoted from mrbill08:

Lastability for the player or for the gameroom? The answer would be very different. The gameroom lastability one is easy. NGG hands down. All of my non-collector guests gravitate to NGG and really enjoy it. They talk about how fun it was to play to others after they visit. You can play and get mode gratification without knowing the ruleset. It is very intuitive. I have had my NGG for over six years and it has been trouble-free. I still enjoy playing it and especially playing it with guests.
Bill

Bravo sir, very very good observation. I never thought of it like that before. I'm basically looking for a gameroom lastability, but wouldn't sacrifice too much of playability for me. no too easy pins like LW3 or something like that. I like NGG but played it only on pinball arcade.

Quoted from ahanson:

A BSD would probably be a really good choice although I'm not sure it qualifies as "approachable" for non-pinheads.

my original choice is BSD. I love it. But with Shadow that would make two pins that only I could play and none of the guests. not to mention I would be too scared to go to the bathroom in the middle of night if I have to pass by it

Quoted from RyanStl:

Especially if you can't stand the music.

I was maybe too harsh. I don't hate it, just find it boring. I really like the rules and layout and dmd animations.

thank you guys for helping me, keep discussing. I can't reward you any other way than give you each an upvote

#32 6 years ago
Quoted from goatdan:

Ding ding ding!
Tommy I own, but think that JP is by far the superior game to it as it stands right now.
However, no answer is going to be wrong

I'm VERY interested in this observation. JP is superior in what way? rules? I find Tommy rules excellent, actually made a spreadsheet comparing them one by one with TAF (I can share if anyone is interested) and find them an improvement. If JP is that great, I would love to realize that.

#33 6 years ago

I currently own Congo and Tommy, and have played a lot of NGG and Lawlor is my favorite designer. Of all of Lawlor's games, B/W era, I find NGG the least appealing. I don't know why, but it just doesn't feel complete to me, and I even think I heard somewhere, the code never finished. Definitely some fun gameplay elements, but not sure enough to stick around in a small collection. For a similar styled game with a lot of lasting power, I'd go with Whirlwind instead.

Congo is a great game. I traded my Shadow for it. Still not sure if Congo is better than Shadow, but it's nice to have a game that's not mode-based. The theme is cool, and it's got a lot of good shots. So far, I'm digging it.

Tommy is one of my favorite games in my collection. I think it's hands down the best Data East game, and probably in my Top 10 favorite pins of all-time list. Lots of modes, blinders rock, I don't mind the broadway songs, theme rocks, layout and shots feel great. I've had mine for well over a year and never thought of letting it go. To me, it's a game you can't go wrong with.

#34 6 years ago
Quoted from Ika:

It's Europe's poor cousin I live in, these are US prices you mention.

I think some of us forget sometimes that this is an international community.BTW, NGG is a good game, but might be better suited to a slightly bigger collection (IMHO). It's fun for a quick hitter game, but I don't think it has quite enough to do if it's in a small collection.

#35 6 years ago

Get a nite light and a BSD.

#36 6 years ago

Consider RFM. It is in your budget, advanced technology, draws in non-pinheads, certainly is a journey, and has amazing music and flow.

#37 6 years ago
Quoted from Ika:

WPT would probably be more expensive than 3K euro because there are none here and it is brand new

Do not know about prices in Bulgaria but you can find WPT in Italy or France for 1500-2000 euros.
edit for clarity: I am not selling mine! No way... Keeper.

#38 6 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Consider RFM. It is in your budget, advanced technology, draws in non-pinheads, certainly is a journey, and has amazing music and flow.

Good call. Definitely a game on my short list.

#39 6 years ago

update: NGG is pretty much nigh unobtanium. off the list.
wife wouldn't allow Tommy in because of dark theme and us planning children. Never interfere with wife's superstition. She doesn't want BSD in as well, but I'll veto that somehow breaking the rule in the previous sentence.

thank you everyone, it's congo first, if it falls through then it is jurassic park (much cheaper here) or BSD if I get persuasive enough.

#40 6 years ago

a twist to the story!!! it seems I can get Roadshow for much less than a Congo and really really much less than NGG. What's your opinions on Roadshow vs Congo vs JP vs something like lets say Last Action Hero? BSD is out, too creepy for wife to allow it in. Too bad, I really like it.

#41 6 years ago

I have a very small area to play my pins, at best I can fit 4-5 games in a squeeze. I usually have 2-3 games in the house but right now I only have one( Congo).
I was always regularly flipping pins,what stays and what goes was always on my mind.
Now things have changed.
Congo has stayed longer than most and will stay for the foreseeable future until it is joined by TBL next year.

#42 6 years ago
Quoted from Ika:

What's your opinions on roadshow vs Congo vs JP vs something like lets say Last Action Hero?

Not enough experience with Congo / JP but know RoadShow fairly well (I owned one). Go for it ! It has a very interesting shot layout, with 3 left flippers, excellent shaker integration, decent Humour.

Major weakness: game is a bit too linear.

Potential weakness: music. Find a youtube video, some can't stand country music.

#43 6 years ago

Try to get the wife to change her mind on the BSD as it is a freakin awesome pin, stacking multiballs on this machine is tough but wellll worth it!!!

#44 6 years ago

Bsd....t2....or wpt

#45 6 years ago

I voted Congo and had it longer then any pin in my current collection since April 2011. It's a very approachable pin for non pinhead guests and has some interesting shots. I know every new collector I have broken into the hobby really enjoyed it and was one of the top 3 after playing all my games. In fact last month I helped someone find Congo as their first game too and last year I helped another fella out too.

NGG is a very fun shooting game but I am not sure how I would enjoy it in long run in my collection. I can say for sure it has appeal because of the 'caddy shack-ish' type theme and the taunting gophers just make you wanna keep playing so you can bash them in their faces. The light show before multi-ball starting is one of the best.

#46 6 years ago

I'll toss in my 2 cents. I have owned Roadshow for years and really like it.

Also it's my wife's favorite pin in my small collection (she really doesn't play it much).

The grandkids like this as well. I have no problem with the country music maybe since i have played the banjo. My biggest complaint is you must complete cities east to west, in doing this you go though mostly the same city sequence so that's where I think the linear comes in.

However, if you get to the end (west coast) the super payday is awesome. The cities down the line are cool because you don't get to them as often. The other shots and modes mutilball, flying rocks etc are a real kick. That being said my brother in law only wants to play Terminator 2. The favorite pin I own is Indy 500 (maybe because it's new) I was able to play NNG and Congo at the expo and liked them as well. My wife would prohibit BSD & it would probaly give the gandkids nightmares. So good luck

#47 6 years ago
Quoted from Ika:

update: NGG is pretty much nigh unobtanium. off the list.
wife wouldn't allow Tommy in because of dark theme and us planning children. Never interfere with wife's superstition. She doesn't want BSD in as well, but I'll veto that somehow breaking the rule in the previous sentence.
thank you everyone, it's congo first, if it falls through then it is Jurassic Park (much cheaper here) or BSD if I get persuasive enough.

I've owned all of those...now, that BSD is now on your list.. Without a doubt: BSD would be my more "lasting" pin out of those. (I still have BSD and NGG by the way)
Bsd will ALWAYS stay. NGG may leave someday.

BSD is also "Dark themed" as you mentioned..so, I don't know how that would play out with your wife...But, I just love it.

#48 6 years ago

sorry for annoying you furthemore, this is sort of me thinking out loud.

choice is congo vs roadshow.

as I said, bsd is specifically forbidden 100%, not thinking about it. happy wife, happy life. she doesn't nag me about blowing money on big toys, I at least could try not to bring toys that would make her unhappy.

I have money for only one of these and basically whichever I buy, I'm saving it from sort of oblivion because games are exported abroad at the rising tempo, all that will remain in few years would be at homes of very few collectors, because sellers are exporting everything worth owning. no money in operating, so people sell those. basically everything apart from rare collector state machines are pulled from the route or rotting in some storage.

I reached the conclusion that Congo and Roadshow share certain similarities:

In both games there is no stacking of anything - modes aren't concurrent with each other/and or multiball (although congo doesn't officially have modes, it does functionally implement them: amy's mode, mineshaft video, hippo/rocks video mode, satellite transfer, grey attack, diamont hunt mb, jungle jackpot/mb, skill fire).

Roadshow has more sidegames in blasting, falling rocks, bridge-ing out, million plus ramps, shooting red for cheeseburger award. Congo has collecting diamonds and hippo bonus as sideshows.

both games are basically linear (oddly, I thought of Congo being non-linear before I put some serious thinking into it). In RS it is that modes must be passed in certain order with little (but still existable) choice of which go before others. In Congo MAP awards are strictly linear journey - order of things is fixed and predetermined: you have to first pass diamond hunt multiball to get to jungle jackpot later on the way and then ghost tribe multiball if you collect jungle jackpot and then later lit and collect skill fire. you get there by shooting left ramp three times and then collecting it in saucer, in roadshow you at least have more choice what to shoot to pass 400 miles and then also collect it in saucer. Congo grey attack awards also come in predetermined order. I like Congo strategy of balancing of collecting as much diamonds to raise jackpots and keeping that from going too out of balance for future locks. and timing when to collect which grey award.

both games have reachable wizard modes that can be repeated over the course of the game, both with 4 balls in multiball.

both games have simple regular 3 ball multiball rules: In Congo you could only concentrate on shooting left ramp for jackpot ignoring right ramp, but in roadshow you have to alternate headshots to collect jackpots, although roadshow has no superjackpot, but Congo has a simple one.

roadshow seems a little cheaper here as Congo rarity drives the price up and not many people like roadshow.
roadshow has better translite,but worse music.

neither of them is a pinball wizard game. congo is a flow game, roadshow more stop and go.

also there is a very teenzy weenzy distant possibility that one day I might be able to alter roadshow software to change rules, add non-linearity and change multiball rules. more likely it is too much work (I would like if there is a way to alter rules, not to write them from scratch, wouldn't care so much of IP, would do it for myself not for sale, and Europe is different in laws than US on those matters)

it seems roadshow offers more for less money. please correct me if I'm wrong, because when I pull the trigger, it's only trading in the future, no more purchases, and the supply is dwindling.

thanks for reading

#49 6 years ago

Well thought out, I will add my Roadshow it is the only game I have set for 5 balls, I don't do the buy in extra ball feature.

If I didn't have it set for 5 balls I most likely would not get past Nashville or Chicago, which would make the game somewhat brutal. IMHO The shaker in RS I assume is a plus.

I only played Congo at Pinball Expo and at a hotel and did find it fun. How about someone who owns both? Good luck

#50 6 years ago

I own both machines. I would recommend Roadshow over Congo. I own Roadshow since 2001 or 2002 and I am not tired of it yet. I do not like Congo (got it in a package deal). It is not a bad game, but imho a bit boring.

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