(Topic ID: 235565)

Last action hero - left flipper mad

By jimy_speedt

5 years ago


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#1 5 years ago

Hi,

I am trying to solve all the issues on a lah that has stayed for long ... I do not know exactly, as it was in the seller's dining room.

There is a strange problem, the left flipper bat goes sometimes well when pressing the left button, sometimes not at all. The bat is not "hesitating", just nothing, it is like there is no trigger at all.

First of all, I do not know what type of voltage measure I get on the coil lugs. Surprisingly, I do not get 50 or 70vdc as for the WMS/Bally. But 6.5vdc on one lug when pressing the button, and 0 on the other lug. On both flipper bat coils. The right flipper works fine and shows the same voltages as the left one.

So, I always get the voltage going positive on the left coil lug when pressing the left button, whether it flips, or not (the issue), and I am not able to say why it does not flip each time the button is pressed.

Thanks for your help

#2 5 years ago

This game has a flipper controller board mounted inside on the side of the cabinet. Get a good look at the connectors and transistors on it, I've seen them get damaged due to their proximity to the bottom of the playfield.

#3 5 years ago

I will occasionally see the same thing. Some days fine, others it will go dead once or twice in a game. Always comes back.

#4 5 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

This game has a flipper controller board mounted inside on the side of the cabinet. Get a good look at the connectors and transistors on it, I've seen them get damaged due to their proximity to the bottom of the playfield.

Thanks, I ll have look

#5 5 years ago

Also check your cabinet switches! I just remembered after fixing up an LAH i had the same problem. It turned out LAH uses gold-plated contacts on the flipper switches and i had tungsten switches installed. Problem drove me nuts, but in the end it was just a matter of installing new cabinet switches with gold-plated contacts (they are designed to work with low voltage coming from the flipper board--regular tungsten contacts are not reliable for low voltage though they will kind of work).. and if the cabinet switches are original, they may need to be replaced anyway if they're worn out.

#6 5 years ago

Hi,

There is one thing I would like to understand before checking all of this.

- when the button is pressed, I get 6.5vdc on one lug and 0 on the other. Is this measure normal ?
- for the left flipper, even when the left coil has no reaction although the button is pressed, the measures are 6.5 and 0.

My understanding is that there is a reaction every time the button is pressed, but sometimes the coil does not work.

#7 5 years ago

Do you get the same voltage readings on the working flipper? I'll admit my knowledge is limited regarding the flipper system on this game. I'll see what else i can find out though...

#8 5 years ago

Yes I read 6.5 and 0 on both left and right (the working one) coils

#9 5 years ago

I don't know if you have Clay's guides for pinball repair, but I copied/pasted the relevant section from his Data East repair guide here...plenty of stuff to check!

If the Flipper(s) Don't Work at All or are Intermittent...
Solid state Flipper games (Robocop and later):

On games with electronic flippers, clean the EOS switches (if the game has them) and the cabinet switches with a cotton swab and alcohol. This is especially the case if the flippers are intermittent, working only sometimes, or sometimes weak flippers. This only takes a second to do and can solve many problems.

Check the flipper fuses. For solid state flippers (Robocop and later), the fuses are on the solid state flipper board, which is on the side of the cabinet under the playfield. The flipper will also not work if the 50 volt fuse on the PPB board is blown (this fuse is located at the top center of the PPB board, to the right of the four inline fuses at the top left).

Check the fuse clips on the solid state flipper board. Often these fatigue or break and will not grip the fuses. Push down on the fuses as installed in the flipper board. If the fuse clip "Y"-out, the clip is bad and must be replaced.

Look for damage on the solid state flipper boards. Since these boards are located below the playfield on the left side of the cabinet wall, they are very easily damaged. A common problem is a broken or open TIP36 or TIP42 transistor on the solid state flipper board. The position of the board(s) under the playfield (on the side of the cabinet), permits easy damage if the playfield tilts and falls inside the cabinet (this especially happens on Ninja Turtles and later games with playfield mounting slide rails). If the playfield falls off the slide rails and into the cabinet, it can easily tear components off the solid state flipper boards. Several transistors with heat sinks stick out the furthest from the board, making them easiest to damage.

Check the LEDs on the flipper board. The LEDs indicate that the flipper cabinet buttons are being pressed. There is one LED for each flipper in the game. If pressing the flipper buttons does not flash the flipper board LED(s), try cleaning the cabinet switch and flipper coil EOS switch (if the game has them) with alcohol and a rag.

On Jurassic Park, Last Action Hero, and Tales from the Crypt, check the normally closed EOS switch. If the EOS switch is dirty, or has a wire or switch blade broken, or is mis-adjusted so the switch is not closed when the flipper is at rest, the flipper will not work! Test by using an alligator jumper wire across the EOS switch. This problem only happens on games with solid state flipper boards #520-5033-03 and 520-5070-00 (which is replacable with #520-5076-00 and #520-5080-00 respectively, which fixes this problem). These flipper boards can also be modified to act correctly, like the later flipper boards. See the DataEast service bulletin number 54 by clicking here, here, and here.

Check for voltage at the flipper coil (on games WWF and later, make sure the coin door is closed!) With the flippers enabled (in game mode), use the DC voltage setting on the DMM. Put the black lead on ground (grounding strap inside the coin door). Put the red lead on the flipper coil lug connected to the BANDED side of the diode. Press and hold the cabinet flipper button (no voltage will be shown until the cabinet button is pressed). The DMM should show a spike of high voltage, which settles down to about 7 volts DC. No voltage means a fuse is blown, or there is damage to the solid state flipper board, or the flipper enable relay. Repeat this step in attract (game over) mode. But this time put the red lead on either flipper coil lug. With the flipper cabinet button pressed and held, look for a voltage spike which settles down to about 7 volts DC.

If there is no power to a flipper, and the solidstate flipper board fuses are good, next test the TIP36 transistors on the flipper board (should get .5 to .7 volts using the DMM diode test). Even if they do not appear to be damaged, this is a common part to fail. If a TIP36 fails, its associated flipper will not function at all. See Checking/Fixing Transistors and Coils for procedures on testing transistors.

Both flippers work fine, then especially when holding them up for a few seconds, they die. They start working again a few seconds later. Sometimes the flippers may only get the high voltage power side, and will blow the low and/or high power fuses when used. Check all diodes and transistors on the Solid State Flipper Board (.5 to .7 volt range on the diode DMM test). If all seem fine, this can often be attributed to the 4093 chips on the solidstate flipper board (replace both of them and use sockets).

#10 5 years ago

Hi,

Yes I have read this and have checked this.

Thanks forcyur time, I guess I will replace the components over the whole line.

#11 5 years ago

Darn. Well, good luck and please keep us posted on your progress.

#12 5 years ago

I thought I had the solution: as there was voltage sent to the coil lug at every button pressing, it should be a coil problem. I resoldered the coil wires, same stuff after a while.
I replaced the coil with a spare one, no progress.

#13 5 years ago

Solved this exact issue on my LAH. It was the cabinet button switch. Even new data East switches were a little flakey. I installed stern leaf switches and have never had another issue.

4 weeks later
#14 5 years ago

Coming back after I replaced the button switch. There is no change.

When I press the button, current comes to the coil, because the flipper bat trembles, or moves a few millimeters.

That happens from time to time

#15 5 years ago

Have you checked the fuses and fuse holders on the solid state flipper driver pcb in the cabinet?

Often the fuse holders go bad causing this problem.

Also when you measure only 6,5vdc this means you’re either measuring wrong or there’s a bad contact or leakage somewhere. My bet would be the fuseholders not clamping anymore onto the fuse.
Compare with other high voltage coils, i think you should measure around 50-70v if memory serves me correct.

#16 5 years ago

Hallo Bingovit, dank U voor het antwoord.

It is a good point, the fuse holder are not in good condition. Regarding the voltage, I have the same value on the right flipper coil lugs.

Fuse and holder are replaced. No more succes. I will resolder all the points on the board

#17 5 years ago

Sharing some thoughts.

I have the exact same measures on the flipper board for flippers "A" and "B". There is some kind of little movements on the left flipper bat.

The EOS is normally closed. Say that the EOS has a contact problem, i.e. considered by the CPU or the flipper board as open. Will it try to send a holding voltage, which could explain some things ?

#18 5 years ago

That was it !!!

Thank you all for the time you have spent

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