(Topic ID: 274533)

Laser war Red ball lock not detecting

By M0t10n

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by M0t10n
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#1 3 years ago

I’m sorry I’m new here so I hope I’m posting in the proper area. My 1987 DE laser war machine works fine with the yellow and blue locks but the red doesn’t say fire red and it takes like 10 seconds to kick it out. Like it’s going into ball search mode and just spitting it out. I tried cleaning the leaf but didn’t seem to help. Also the red gate and star button near it aren’t working. Tried cleaning those also with no luck. Does it sound like a ground issue they are sharing maybe.

#2 3 years ago

Welcome! You're in the right place.

If you don't have a copy of the manual, you can download it from ipdb.org. here's a link directly to the download: https://www.ipdb.org/files/1415/Data_East_1987_Laser_War_English_Instruction_Manual_with_paginated_schematics_better_resolution_right_half_missing_for_pages_25_34.pdf

What you're experiencing sounds like a switch matrix problem, since multiple switches on the same vertical "Column" (in the manual called a "Switch Drive") aren't working. I would also check the other switches on Column 4 as graphed on the switch matrix chart: 1339375765.png1339375765.png

You may find some or possibly none of those switches are working. Most common reason is a wire or diode broke off *any* of those switches on Switch Drive 4 aka "Column" 4 (the vertical row of switches circled above). I'd examine each of the circled switches. Give the green-yellow wires at those switches a light tug to make sure they're firmly connected at all 7 switches. Do the same for each of those switches diodes at both ends as well. All of those switches with the green-yellow wire are on the same circuit--the wire runs from one switch to the next, to the next, and finally goes up the backbox to the CPU board at connector CN8 pin 4. If you look at that connector on the CPU board, you'll see it is the same green-yellow wire. You can pull that connector and put a probe from your multimeter on CN8 pin 4 and see if you get continuity from there to the green/yellow wire at each of the playfield switches circled above.

In short: you're looking for a green-yellow wire or a diode leg at one of those circled switches broke off or possibly touching something it shouldn't. You'll note multiple green-yellow wires at most of the switches, make sure they're *all* firmly connected to their respective solder lugs.

Good luck! Be sure to ask any questions if you are unsure moving forward, pin repairs can be tricky for the uninitiated (and for those of us that are, for that matter )

#3 3 years ago

Thanks I’ll inspect further and tell you my progress

#4 3 years ago

Just found this gonna solder hope it fixes it

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#5 3 years ago

I don't think that's what you're looking for, but that may be for a flash lamp circuit or something else. Reconnecting that may get certain flashers working or something. Not sure! If that doesn't fix the switch problem, go through the switches as described in my post above.

#6 3 years ago

Ok my friend is coming over with the soldering iron so I’ll reconnect and check back .

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from M0t10n:

Ok my friend is coming over with the soldering iron so I’ll reconnect and check back .

frunch is right. those warming resistors are for flashers and if you reconnect it and you have LED flashers it will lock on.

You need to locate those 3 switches under the playfield and verify the wiring on them. Also check those 3 yellow switches are they working? If not you may have a column out

#8 3 years ago

I have the regular stock bulbs in it . Thanks for helping guys I’ll look over the areas circled above.

#9 3 years ago

I'm the friend! Thanks for the note about that resistor - I'm a #44 snob so not terribly familiar with LED yet but felt it was important to check if it was done intentionally. Omw to see what I can help with today...thanks, the tech does appreciate this thread!

#10 3 years ago

All the connections look good but that whole column looks out. Something on the board is probably bad ? Here is a pic.

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#11 3 years ago

Q50 looks like the wrong transistor I thought they were all supposed to be 2n3904 type. Gonna get a meter and do further testing of the transistors

#12 3 years ago

Def check the transistors next. Though that one looks odd at Q50, i think Q52 is the transistor that drives that column. The schematic is hard to follow though, so maybe I'm wrong on that one.

In any case, this is what I'd try next--here's what Clay's guide for data east repairs recommends:

Testing the Switch Columns (drive)

To test the switch columns, do the following:
Remove the backglass.
Turn the game on.
After the game boots, go to the diagnostic menu's switch levels or "TST" test.
Unplug the connectors at CN8 and CN10 (bottom portion of the CPU board).
Connect an alligator test lead to pin 9 of CN10. Pin 9 is the left most pin, as facing the board.
On the other end of the alligator test lead, clip on a 1N4004 diode, with the banded end away from the alligator lead. Touch the banded end of the diode to pin 1 of CN8 (pin 1 is the right most pin, as facing the board).
The display should show switch 1 is closed.
Move the diode/alligator lead on CN8 to the next pin. The display should show switch 9 is closed.
Repeat the previous step, until pin 9 of CN8 is reached. Switches 1, 9, 17, 25, 33, 41, 49, 57 should be closed on the display as the lead is moved forward, pin 1 to pin 9, on connector CN8. Note pin 6 is a key pin, and should be skipped.
If a particular column number does not display as closed, or is closed without any test lead connection, there is a problem on the CPU board. Usually this is a bad switch matrix column 2N3904 transistor at Q48-Q55.

#13 3 years ago

Should I just replace all 8 since it’s a blue board (early model). They are really cheap online. Sorry for all the questions this is my first machine and it was supposed to be working 100% so now I’m trying to learn.

#15 3 years ago

Just found what looks to be a resistor burnt up(c-47) and missing and a bad solder job someone did before. Is this board fixable or should I buy a rotten dog mpu?

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#16 3 years ago

Looks like that board has been through a bit of stress... I'll be honest, if you aren't prepared to get into some potentially involved repair work, you may want to opt for a replacement CPU. I can't speak to the quality of rottendog Data East boards, and you may also want to consider having the board repaired professionally if it isn't too far gone. There's a number of reputable techs here on pinside and elsewhere online that may be able to fix the board for you if you opt to try that route.

In any case, it's pretty safe to say you identified the problem as being board-related.

Edit: looks like that's a different section of the board that had gotten toasted. Those transistors are for the special solenoids (pop bumpers, slingshots, etc)... Definitely looks like the area has been repaired. Did you guys find any bad transistors for the switch column drivers?

#17 3 years ago

If you get a new board buy it from someone who can burn the ROMs and change the jumper for you.

I put in an RD in a laser war last month and it worked great. But I also have a rom burner

#18 3 years ago

Okay I have a version 1. found out it uses a different socket and jumper. Does the rotten dog use t he smaller chip or double it up on the bigger chip? Since I don’t have a programmer I could get one pre flashed I’ve seen. Will all the wiring harnesses fit ?

#19 3 years ago

Still gotta test those transistors.. plan on taking the whole board out for a better look. See if I can see any cold solder joints on the back

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from M0t10n:

Okay I have a version 1. found out it uses a different socket and jumper. Does the rotten dog use t he smaller chip or double it up on the bigger chip? Since I don’t have a programmer I could get one pre flashed I’ve seen. Will all the wiring harnesses fit ?

that rom will work if you change the jumper

#21 3 years ago

I would test the switches on the line before throwing a $400 board at it. Might just be a bad diode on a switch.

#22 3 years ago

What is the best way to test the switches? Visually they all looked connected but you’re right it could be just a diode failed.

#23 3 years ago

If I was to get the RD board do I have to worry about extra pins like on c12 or anything? Or can I just connect, put rom and jumper in, also have the ram to get rid of the battery. Is that compatible?

#24 3 years ago

this board looks pretty jacked and hacked. The last pic you shared is the switched solenoid section and has nothing to do with your switch matrix so repairs there will do nothing about the red saucer. Here are the parts that look hacked in that last pic

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C47 which looks to be exploded on your board is part of the display circuitry? see here: pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

meanwhile I see stuff like this and I don't trust this board:
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#25 3 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

this board looks pretty jacked and hacked. The last pic you shared is the switched solenoid section and has nothing to do with your switch matrix so repairs there will do nothing about the red saucer. Here are the parts that look hacked in that last pic
[quoted image]
C47 which looks to be exploded on your board is part of the display circuitry? see here: [quoted image]
meanwhile I see stuff like this and I don't trust this board:
[quoted image]

If its working, isolate the switch problem first.

Would be unfortunate to spend $400 for a board, still not fix the problem which turns out to be a .20 cent diode.

#26 3 years ago
Quoted from M0t10n:

What is the best way to test the switches? Visually they all looked connected but you’re right it could be just a diode failed.

Diode failing is common enough I keep 50+ on hand and just replace even if I think one is bad. Not uncommon for them to fail at all.

#27 3 years ago

So just do a diode test with a dmm ? I was reading how to test them.

#28 3 years ago

I agree the board looks like it was rigged by a drunk tech. You think I should just get a new mpu?
<blockquote
cite="#5781751">this board looks pretty jacked and hacked. The last pic you shared is the switched solenoid section and has nothing to do with your switch matrix so repairs there will do nothing about the red saucer. Here are the parts that look hacked in that last pic
[quoted image]
C47 which looks to be exploded on your board is part of the display circuitry? see here: [quoted image]
meanwhile I see stuff like this and I don't trust this board:
[quoted image]

#29 3 years ago

Cheddar- you’re correct on that being for the display cuz it won’t do the 1/2 diagonals on the R’s . think I should just get a new board cuz this one looks like a fire hazard ? I just got this machine and would never let someone hack it up like that :/

#30 3 years ago
Quoted from M0t10n:

Cheddar- you’re correct on that being for the display cuz it won’t do the 1/2 diagonals on the R’s . think I should just get a new board cuz this one looks like a fire hazard ? I just got this machine and would never let someone hack it up like that :/

if you know someone that can do quality board work have them look at it. If you don't feel comfortable then replace it

#31 3 years ago

Tested all the diodes and they are good except whoever installed the ramp forgot to put the diode back on. I attached a photo. Should it be alright if I reinstall the diode? Or could it have done any damage not having one? Thanks again guys I’m getting closer to figuring this out

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#32 3 years ago

a missing switch diode won't cause any damage but prevents the column from passing on to downstream switches. you do need a diode there

EDIT: there is a diode there. It's under the rubber insulator

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

a missing switch diode won't cause any damage but prevents the column from passing on to downstream switches. you do need a diode there

Make sure there isn't a diode on the underside of the playfield, DE did that over the years.

#34 3 years ago

Yeah cheddar was right it was under the wire next to it. Tested it and it is also fine so it is in fact on to board work like we thought. Good to test and be sure tho

#35 3 years ago

Decided to go with a rottendog mpu for now and get some board work done to the original so I have a spare. The new motherboard comes with the newest version of laser war so do I have to update the dmd rom also to get my display to run? If so what type ic chip do I need or programmer/chip to flash it. Thx in advance

#36 3 years ago
Quoted from M0t10n:

Decided to go with a rottendog mpu for now and get some board work done to the original so I have a spare. The new motherboard comes with the newest version of laser war so do I have to update the dmd rom also to get my display to run? If so what type ic chip do I need or programmer/chip to flash it. Thx in advance

No dmd on laser war. Are your displays not working?

#37 3 years ago

No it was just a concern I’m getting the new motherboard today in about an hour or 2... I’ll let you guys know if it fixes my issues. Have a good day

#38 3 years ago

make sure and check you jumper location. I believe it has to be at J4 even though you'll only have 1 rom in that game

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#39 3 years ago

We got it all installed and clipped j5. Coils aren’t working and only some audio. Any help would be appreciated

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from M0t10n:

We got it all installed and clipped j5. Coils aren’t working and only some audio. Any help would be appreciated

did you add J4? removing J5 is not enough

#41 3 years ago

Yeah it came with both

#42 3 years ago

It’s blowing the coil fuse and it wasn’t with the old board

#43 3 years ago

Outhole coil seems to be locking on blowing slow blow fuse at f4. It was working with the old board but now it’s blowing with the new board ..

#44 3 years ago

Also my laser kick coil is really hot

#45 3 years ago

Found outhole diode was bad and also laser kick. Smig board diodes are bad and the resistor. Had to order some resistors cuz I don’t have that value. Strange it is having all these issues now. If you guys think of any reason for the coil issues now with the new motherboard please chime in.

#46 3 years ago

if coils are getting hot it's because they are locking on. Do you hear a coil engage when the machine turns on?

#47 3 years ago

Talked to the seller on the phone. He said it’s supposed to be jumper j5 and remove j4. I have the single rom at c5. We will be working on it around 4pm eastern to see if that works. Thx for replying tho you’ve been a huge help so far

#48 3 years ago

Yeah fixed everything and laser kick sticks on right away still and holds so I have to shut it off and figure out what’s going on. It’s also most of the other coils. With the old board they would pulse every 5 seconds. New board they all kick on full blast. Must be a board by the Playfield or a short somewhere. Tech is going over the book tonight and should post later .

Tested all my coils diodes all bad and smig board diodes bad. Like 15 total. Pretty sure a transistor blew on the board causing it. Did further testing of the old board and q48 and q52 have a super low reading of 2 the others were around 803 I believe. Also q50 was getting a little weak. Could probably get that one working while we trace the new board issue

#49 3 years ago

Looking for the value of the resistors at c46 and c47. Missing and burnt and I need to replace. The rest of the board work is done. Traces fixed and 3 transistors replaced and 3 predrivers.

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