Hey Supermoot. I'll have to get a data east test chip then. I've got one for my Williams boards. Will that tell me that my boards are putting out all of the signals for the displays properly and then narrow it down to the display driver board?

I've gone over the service bulletin as well and have set those jumpers mentioned in the bulletin properly. However, someone had been messing around with the jumpers on this board prior to my purchase of the game, probably in hopes of getting the displays to work as well, and as far as I've seen, I cannot find anyone who has posted their complete jumper configuration for a version 3 board in a Laser War that is fully working. If someone could note that all down that would be perfect. Then I can match where the jumpers are supposed to be and rule that out 100% as a possible issue. The only jumper that might not need to be the same as mine would be if they had a different game rom chip type in socket C5 than I did, as there are 2 types used and one requires jumper j4 to be in and one requires jumper j5 to be in.

I've also resurected that old "laser war not fully booting" thread and gone through that as well, which leads me back to "where are all of the jumpers supposed to be in the first place that someone else felt the need to move them around and cross them". UGH! Why would you put a jumper on a diagonal between 2 different jumpers? I don't get it.

I also have all of the pinrepair guides on my computer here and have read through all of the display information there. Nothing refers to having all of the displays out, other than if the HV section on the power supply is bad. I've rebuilt the HV section on this games power supply, and it's working properly (purchased full rebuild kit from actionpinball.com).

If the test chip can verify that the MPU is outputting everything it should to the display driver, then that narrows it down to the display driver not working correctly, which then would lead me to think that all 4 of the udn6118 chips are bad and not putting out any strobe pulses.

Guessing the test chip doesn't tell you anything about the display driver board not working correctly.....

OK. I did a search for Laser War game rom. The original Laser War board had 2 chips one at B5 and one at C5. B5 was a 27512 or 27256 and C5 was a 27256. Since there is only one chip on this board, the 27256, I'm assuming that the other chip is missing. I see K's Arcade has a new 27512 that would replace the pair of chips. I'm thinking there is information missing from the missing chip and it must have to do with the displays.

I'm going to order the new single rom game chip, remove jumper J4 and install jumper J5 and see if this resolves the issue of all the displays not displaying any information. Obviously, when someone put this version 3 board in here, they didn't know what they were doing anyway since all of the jumpers had been messed with and several were crossed between 2 jumpers. Maybe they got rid of a chip that needs to be there too, since there should be 2 chips if your using a 27256 at C5 instead of a 27512 with all of the game info on it. Ugh.........

I will update in a few days when the new chip arrives.......

That will allow you to jumper the board to easily swap in leon's test rom Leon's will just pulse the pia's so you can make sure they are all good with a probe or the light thing.

Installed the new 27512, game plays, but there is STILL nothing on the displays.

After poking around with a probe, testing voltages at all the chips on the display driver board, and trying to think some more, I compared RA1 ,RA2, and RA3. RA2 and RA3 control digit strobes, according to the schematic, and RA1 controls numerical segment drives. RA2 and RA3 gave the same readings for each and RA1 gave no readings at all. So, how can anything be shown on the displays if the segments aren't being driven? Probably can't..... right?

The schematic says RA1 is a 18Kx9 resistor array. Is there any other information or specs I need to know to get the proper one to replace this with? Mouser sure comes up with a lot of results and options.......

Any +/- on if this could possibly be the issue?

Is there activity on cn3 on the cpu board? I don't know if there should be, that is where it comes from tho.

UGH!

I just put the MPU from Laser War in my Monday Night Football. The MPU is putting out the display signals just fine because it came right up on the display with data east presents laser war........ MPU VERIFIED GOOD. DONE.

It's got to be somewhere on the display driver board.

There is activity on all 3 of the display connectors on the mpu at cn1 cn2 and cn3, and the ribbon cable on cn22.

There is even activity on all of the player display connections on the display driver board AND voltage at the same connectors for each display.

Something is keeping them all from actually lighting up and displaying the information.

I don't think it is the RA that I mentioned above anymore. I noticed that the other 2 RAs have +5 to pin1 and this one has ground to pin1, so they should be measured in reverse (switch black and red leads from meter) and they read the same reading as the other to RAs. correct?

I've even removed the ribbon cables with the displays and tested player 3, 4, and the ball credit in my black knight, all of them work just fine. Ive swapped the main ribbon cable from cn22 on the mpu to the driver board with the one from monday night football, and no change. the ribbon cable works just fine in the monday night football too. no cable problems, no voltage problems, and the displays work in other games.

MPU verified good output for displays in MNF.
Ribbon cables all verified good in black knight.
player 3, 4, ball/credit displays all verified good in black knight.
all 3 voltages present on display driver board.
all ics have proper voltage at voltage pin for each chip
all voltages present at all display connectors (1,2,3,4, and ball/credit)
activity at all display connectors with logic probe

why won't they just light up?!!?

you're doing a good job! you gotta be close! So it has to be on the display board somewhere, right? Maybe start chasing the signals through with logic probe? I dunno if you can on the 7180 I think they are high voltage and will eat your probe.

There are 7180's, 6118's, 4050's and 4001's on the display driver board. I have a probe but I really have no idea what signal I should be getting from any of the pins. I found the data sheets for each so I was able to check that each chip was getting the proper voltage, which it is. I measured this by putting the black lead from the meter on the ground pin coming in from the power supply and the red lead on the chip pin that receives the voltage.

I just got the logic probe and have no idea if I need to be on ttl/cmos, pulse/memory, or if, where, and when, I should be seeing hi/low signals. It does have an audio beep sound as well.

I would think you'd need to be in display test mode, which I *think* I am, since I hit the same test button sequence to get there on Laser War as I did on the Monday Night Football, but I really don't know 100%, since nothing ever shows on the displays.

In Monday Night Football the auto display test is right after the sound test, so I hear the sound test and step one more button press through the test menu and assume I'm in the display test in the Laser War.

Even so, in attract mode, I should still see activity at most, if not all, of the pins, I just might have to hold it there for a bit until the information in attract mode is using that segment. At least, I would think.....

I REALLY do not want to get a pin score display set. I feel this board should be easily repairable if I knew the signals I should be getting from each chip pin. It doesn't look to ever have been repaired before and looks all original. No hacks or re-soldered anything on here. Nice and clean. I can do great solder work all the time, but I don't always know how to find the problem. I have about 25 pins set up to play right now and I'm proud to say that not a single one of them has led retrofit displays. All of my pins have great original glass displays installed and I'd like to keep it that way. I even take the time to rebuild the HV sections and adjust the voltage down properly on the early Bally/Stern displays so that they last longer in their original form.

Actually, the Game Plan Sharp Shooter II and Old Coney Island have LED displays..... but those are original to those games, and they are not set up at the moment. So they don't count.

Here is a test for two of the chips! Do this w everything off! http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Display_Panel_Problems

Perfect. I removed the board and tested the UDN7180/6116 on the display driver board. The 3 7180's tested good. All 4 of the 6118's tested bad. Looks like I've got some sockets to install on this board

How can I test the 4050BE and 4001BE? There are 4 of each on this particular board.

OK, so I just tested the 4050's with the board removed from the game. Had one lead on ground and other lead probing each leg of each chip. All 4 of the chips gave the same readings on each leg, meaning pin 1 of all gave the same, pin 2 of all gave the same, ect. when each of the same pin was compared to the reading of the same pin on the other chips. Is this the correct way to test those? I have a digital meter so I can't see any "bounce" as mentioned in the old pin repair guides.

Getting some where.....

Some progress today! UDN6118s arrived in the mail and were installed with new sockets on the display driver board. We now have some digits that light up, but most are still out.

Player 2 and 4 have both the ten thousand and hundred thousand digits light up. The 1st of the 2 digits in the balls display and the first of the 2 digits in the credits display light up. I can now see when I'm in the display test and the digits that light up work for all numbers.

Now, what's next to figure out what's not lighting up the other digits?

How can I test the 4050be and 4001be?

Few more notes:

Looks like the 4001's control the digits, and the 7180's and 4050's control the segments. I ordered some of each, but I'll be replacing all 4 of the 4001's next and putting them in sockets as well.

Something did a doozy on this display board.

Also was able to finally verify that player 1 and 2 glass displays are good.

Update again in a few days.

IMG_0554 (resized).JPG

FINALLY, we have full operation of all displays! I replaced all 4 of the 4001's on the display driver board and everything is now up and running 100%. Wow. New transformer, rebuilt HV on power supply, proper jumpers, new C5 rom, replace and socket all 4 UDN6118's on display driver board, replace and socket all 4 4001's on display driver board, and we finally have full display operation.

That's got to be the most extensive display operation project ever.

Thanks for everyone's patience, help, and suggestions along the way. It is much appreciated!

Now, it's game time.

I knew you were gonna get it! Great work!

any alternate backglass ideas or ones made?

I was going to say order a new translite from Marco Spec.... but I just checked and the site says they are sold out now. I got one just in time then!

I do have the old one from my game that is somewhat faded and has some tape around where the score displays go. If yours is in real bad shape with missing pieces and cracks everywhere, it might be better than that one and worth trying to remove the tape around the display windows.......

**UPDATE**

I fixed it. Turns out it WAS a fuse -- the far right one on the GI fuse block, right under the power supply board.

Now to that misbehaving set of lamp sockets.........

Hi Folks -

Still making my way through fixing up my Laser War, and ran into what hopefully is not a huge show stopper tonight.

I was trying to test out a possibly bad lamp socket in the backbox with my multimeter.....when I noticed every light in the backbox was now off. I recycled power, nothing. The game seems to play fine and everything on the playfield that works still does.. just no head lighting except for flashers! So, maybe this is just a GI issue?

I eyeballed (and ran continuity tests) on the fuses, and saw no problems there. With that being said, it certainly FEELS like a fuse issue given everything is off. I tested the fuses while still in the fuse block..should I maybe pull them and test again?

To make things even more odd.. the coin return lights, which have not worked in literally years, are now lighting up.

HELP!

Thanks a ton in advance, everyone. I'm hoping this is an easy one!

-Craig

Pull the fuse and test it for sure, I wouldn't rely on testing it in the holder. Do you have any voltage at any of the sockets?

On my laser war the connector in the backbox that runs the backbox gi burned up. See if it looks toasty, its over on the left.

I'll be totally straight with you -- I'm not even sure if I'm testing the sockets in question correctly. Can you point me to a YouTube video (or other link) that shows the correct way?

It ended up being the fuse on the far right of the GI fuse block. It was quite toasty and stuck to the fuse block. Ended up breaking it during removal. Had some spares on hand, thankfully!

Glad you got it! I've had that issue before and the fuse was also the culprit. For future reference you just put your positive lead on the socket tab and the other lead on ground, the backbox ground strap is usually the easiest and look for around 6.3v.

GI is AC. That measurement technique is for DC. I honestly do not think that will work but I could be wrong.

Now that you mention it I think you're right, I need to double check. In my defense I was pretty drunk when I posted that...

I am planning on creating decals for the ion cannon and the apron. Does anyone have good, hi-res photos of the apron decals? When I'm done, I can make the vector files available.

Laser War Typical Insert Decals

Decals.pdf

Ion Canon Decals (thanks for the source by Toeckeder) in PDF vector, actual size ready for print.

Canon Decals_Actual Size.pdf

Can you make the pop bumper cap decals too?

Just picked up a Laser War that is missing the backbox hinges (weird, never seen that before). Does anyone know what size they are? Same as Williams early system 11? Thank you!

Heck, I got you, fam.
One catch..... The pop bumpers are shiny silver with red monster heads. You would need special laser film on which you print red and some way to cut them out. If you have that capability, I will post or send the files. If not.... I can mail you some. It might take me a bit of time to get around to it. DON'T FORGET THE SPINNER DECALS!! Them too. Also, I have updated decal files because I forgot a few.

Would love to have those files!
Awesome you posted these.
Thank you.

I'm having an intermittent problem with my Laser War that maybe someone can help point me in the right direction. Sometimes when playing, the game locks up. Sound still runs, GI lights are on, but everything else stops. No flippers, bumpers, display, etc... basically everything controlled by the CPU. A quick reboot gets is going again, but that's not good when people are over and I have to do it multiple times.

It seems to happen most when there is a lot going on during the game... multiball, lots of coils firing, etc. Part of me thinks it might be power related because of that. Everything gets busy, power dips for a second, CPU freezes. (The soundboard is on it's own power supply for speaker hum elimination.)

Fuses are all fine, there are no burnt wires, no bad smells, no shorts. Just the random lockup. I'm not even sure how to test for or force the problem to happen.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

I'd start by pulling all the boards and making sure there are no cold solder joints on the connectors. You can clean those pins up while they are out as well. Also, if there are any chips on the boards that are in sockets, pull them, clean the legs, and put them back in. Every new game I get, I go through all the boards and re-flow all connectors, clean the connectors, and socketed chips. It fixes untold numbers of issues.

**UPDATE**

I exercised the tilt switches (anyone have any idea if Switch #9 is near the left flipper assembly?) that I could find.....and the issue stopped. Played a couple of games and did not get 'TILT RESET'.

I did, however, find a few rollovers that don't work. Once I get the flipper issue sorted out, my plan is to go over the entire machine with a fine-toothed comb and order parts en-masse to get it as close to 100% as I can.

Wanted to thank all of you who have replied to my posts in the past. Not sure what I'd do without you all!

-Craig

Hi Folks -

Been away for a while, but finally got around to beginning the flipper rebuild project to hopefully fix THAT issue, but now a new problem has arisen that has made the game more or less unplayable.

I had done some under-the-playfield inspection prior to beginning to desolder the flipper EOS switch + coil. I manually exercised the right flipper (this is the one that's been giving me trouble) a few times, set the playfield back down and fired it up.. TILT RESET! What?

Cycled power and was able to start a game, but it only took a few seconds for TILT RESET to occur again. Cycled power a third time, hit the start button, and can get TILT RESET just by hitting one of the lower slingshot targets or even just pressing a flipper.

Did some quick searches but came up empty handed for where to even start looking at this one.

Any help here would be unbelievably appreciated!!

Thank you!

The flipper EOS switches are in column 6 of the matrix. Check your switch tests first to make sure that when you flip the EOS, only that switch goes off, because switches 54.55 and 62,63 are not used, but the MPU tends to map them to things outside its scope, like 'Return to Base' or 'Tilt Reset' which aren't even switches! (I know, right?) There's a good chance that the column transistor is bad or the (God forbid) maybe the PIA controlling the switch drive and return. Left flipper row is 'Tilt reset' I think, and it's also left slingshot so if either cause the tilt reset, then its time to look at the switch return 7 or a grounded row 7.

Could someone post up close, detailed photos of the flipper wiring (especially the right flipper) on both the coils and EOS switches? A previous owner royally botched a repair job on mine and as a result, the entire mech is hanging by a single green wire -_-

Thanks!

This is fantastic info. I did the full flipper rebuild this weekend (including EOS switches) and did not see Tilt Reset once after playing a couple of test games. In the good news column, neither flipper sticks now. Horray! One issue solved!

Now if I could just get a few hours of uninterrupted time so I can come up with firm list of issues and try to determine their cause. Am sure I'll be back here asking for more help.

Thanks a ton for your reply. I really appreciate it.

-Craig

Just took this one. As far as I know, the wiring in mine is all factory -- it sat in a warehouse for a few years until coming into one of our homes in 1991.

Let me know if you want any others and I will get them for you!

-Craig

IMG_5498 (resized).JPG

Thank you very much Craig! Will report if the re-wiring works...

anyone have a good one of the large 2 3/4" circle insert in the center of playfield ?

picked up a Laser War over the weekend , I find it a pretty fun game , but unfortunately at some point in this particular ones life it had some flasher bulbs freeze on or something & melted parts of the ramp & the center circle 2 3/4" red insert , (game still plays good, just looks awful & there is a soft spot) I ordered insert from PBL & I plan to fix this myself ... now I could just do a red insert with a mylar circle over it but hoping someone here could help with a good scan or advice on possibly making an insert decal to go over it ??

20180827_192823[1] (resized).jpg

20180827_192831[1] (resized).jpg

Sending good wishes on the repair.

I plan on working on that decal some time in the future. Mine was a bit beat, but I did not replace it because... well because. I've already completely refurbished my playfield, replacing all the standard inserts (is why I needed the decal sheet). I found when I repainted the black, the entire field just popped, and I didn't need to touch up the small stuff. I started working on this decal, but ended up just touch-painting around it. Mostly-after and before pics:
I couldn't find green large arrow inserts, so I used clear with green lamps. MUCH BETTER LOOKING.

BTW.... Vid's guide is on fleek!

IMAG0002 (resized).JPG

IMAG0003 (resized).JPG

Take this advice with a grain of salt, but I strongly recommend Vid's guide on flipper repair if you are going to rebuild or replace the flippers. Ugrade those old busted serial coils to the new hotness parallel coils. The parallel coils certainly feel superior, but I'm sure that I'm biased. If you go the distance to upgrade all the way to the fliptronic spring system... bam! Ken Layton says to replace the flipper bases because the original Data East design is weak. So you might want to do that too.

Have made a ton of progress on my Laser War, but am stuck on a couple things and could use some advice. A couple of these are probably easy, but figured I'd ask prior to ordering parts.....

1. I recently did a flipper rebuild and while that completely cleared up the sticking issue, it did not solve the problem where the left flipper is unquestionably weaker than the right. Seems like a coil replacement (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/090-5000-00) is in order here. This is the same part number as the stock Beast coil -- any reason why it won't work?

2. My yellow base spinner is missing entirely. The manual says this is part # 515-5004-10, and I'm having trouble finding one to buy. Can anyone recommend a solid replacement? Would be willing to buy the entire assembly if necessary. My red spinner also works most of the time, but from looking under the playfield, I am unsure if the actuating arm is connected to the switch correctly. Can someone post a pic of theirs so I can see how it should be done?

3. When turning the game on, one of the red canon flashers (see attached pic) turns on and simply stays on. The yellow canon flashers don't flash at all when they should, and the blues seem to be intermittent, similar to the W-A-R flashers. I have to think this is all related to a common issue. Not really even sure where to start on this one -- my guess is a transistor or diode may be shorted, but really could use some advice on tracking this one down. (side question -- should the flashers turn on during the 'All Lamps' test? Mine don't)

4. Would like to do a cap/rebuild kit on the power supply board and was looking at this one -- https://www.arcadepartsandrepair.com/store/components/data-east-520-5000-00-power-supply-105c-cap-kit/ -- has anyone else done one of these? Have had a few random lockup issues in the past, so I figure that doing the cap kit and re-heating the edge connectors certainly can't hurt given the age of the machine.

Thanks for your help in advance, everyone. I don't know what I'd do without this forum!

-Craig
stuck flasher (resized).JPG