(Topic ID: 302512)

Laser kick, flipper problems DE Simpsons

By Icarved2

2 years ago


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#1 2 years ago

Newb at posting and fixing here. I have a Simpsons with what I think are two separate problems, or maybe not. The down and dirty is that I keep blowing the F-5 fuse and the Transistor at Q5 the TIP36C, on the Playfield Power Board, (PPB). I have been trying to troubleshoot this since Jan. of this year to no avail. Problems started with the power up and the Laser Kick coil fried, bad. Replaced Coil, its diode, the Q-5 transistor and the F5 fuse. Power up, blow Q-5 transistor and F-5 fuse. Have tech come to house, he replaces the aforementioned parts and it works till I power up two times later, back to the same thing, take machine to shop, advised everything in circuit replaced, playing fine in shop, bring it home played maybe 5 more times, back to blowing transistor and fuse. Trying to figure this out, and fix it once and for all.
When the game is turned on, with the parts blown, and before starting a game, hitting either flipper with make the laser kick shoot out, and the flippers move slightly. When the game is started and when either flipper is hit, the laser kick shoots out and you can hear the coil humming, and it is immediately shut down.
Please, give me a starting point to diagnose this machine. I have tried reading past posts, but no posts seem to hit on this exact problem.
I have checked grounds from the plug to the boards and between, including all screws in all boards, there are no breaks in ground that I can determine. I have replaced the Tip36C transistor and the F-5 fuse with the proper replacements, so i really dont want to power this up until I have checked everything possible beforehand. And that’s where this community comes in, any help is greatly appreciated!
Gary

#2 2 years ago

Have you also tried replacing the other 2 transistors in the circuit for the laser kick? Q5 on the PPB is "pre-driven" by a TIP122 at Q23 of the CPU board, which is driven by a 2N4401 at Q15. It's also worth checking the resistor array in that part of the circuit on the CPU, RA25.

It's usually recommended if you have a TIP36 fail, you should also replace the TIP122 and 2N4401 at the same time...or else they might fry the new TIP36 again.

These problems can be difficult to solve, but you'll get there if you stick to it for long enough.

#3 2 years ago

Frunch, ran into a small Covid problem, but as soon as this clears I will change out those components and post back. Thanks for the response.

1 week later
#4 2 years ago

Frunch, The resistor array at RA25 checked within tolerance. And both the TIP122 and the 2n4401 were replaced, by the tech at the shop. However, the 2N4401 was replaced with a 2N3904-H25 could this be a problem or is this just a stronger transistor for that slot?

#5 2 years ago

Not sure, to be honest. Looks like they are equivalent, though I can't say I've ever made that substitution myself.

Has the coil diode been changed again since the board work was performed?

#6 2 years ago

Yes, the diode on the laser kick coil was changed when the other work was done, but not since I changed it this time but, a check of the diode with one leg removed show it to be working. So I’ve ordered the 2n4401 and will replace it, and the Tip122. With that done, do you think a power up, would be safe to try?

#7 2 years ago

Well, I did a bit more digging and it appears the 2N3904 is a viable substitute from what I gather.

Be sure to check the coils resistance before proceeding. Not sure what it should be, but hopefully there's other similar coils under the playfield to compare with. Basically want to make sure it's not fried/shorted internally.

Make sure to install the correct wires to the proper sides of the diode. Yellow/violet to banded side, brown/gray to non-banded.

If the TIP36, the tip122, the 2n4401, and the coil diode is good and wired up properly on a good coil...then I suppose it's time to test. If problem continues, it could be the PIA or 7406 chip that drives the 2N4401.

Good luck!

#8 2 years ago

I have worked several DE games that laser kick coil was smoked along with drive transistor. I replaced burnt coil with weaker coil and added under playfield fuse for that coil

#9 2 years ago

Most often I've found a bad power supply to be the root cause of data east coils repeatedly burning up.
The power supply tends to have bad caps, burnt ac plug going in and sometimes bad fuse holders.
The tip 36 transistors fail quick if they are locked on too long.
Many people have swapped the gas display with an led version. This can push a marginal power supply and or associated connectors over the edge.

#10 2 years ago

So the 7406 chip was replaced the tip122, 2n4401. And as previously stated the tip36c and f5 fuse were replaced. Within 4-5 seconds of powering it on, it blew the tip36c and the coil for the laser kick shot out and remained out until powered down, within 1-2 seconds. Talk about frustrated!!!
Edit: any bad caps on the power supply board we’re replaced back when machine was in shop last Jan. I believe!

1 year later
#11 1 year ago

Any update to this? I have the exact same problem and I am completely stumped.

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