(Topic ID: 327433)

Laser engraving & cutting for pinball

By 8bitrobo

1 year ago


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  • 26 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by 8bitrobo
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    There are 110 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
    #1 1 year ago

    I am working on a homebrew pinball of my own and also laser engrave for work. I've been using the laser to help with my project, and want to share any info I can. Working with laser engravers is something I randomly fell into, so there is a lot I still need to learn.

    Using a laser is great making acrylic plastic protectors or petg playfield protectors. Cutting a 1/2in piece of wood can be hard but is possible. Marking lines on wood to route by hand is also useful.

    Types of lasers
    Co2 laser: What you will see in more industrial machines. They take up a lot of space and will be in the 50w-100w power range. Engraving is easy and can cut most material.

    Diode: These are what you will mostly find on Amazon or eBay for home use. The cheaper ones are compact and power ranges from 5w-40w. Mostly for engraving but at 40w you can start to cut useful stuff.

    Fiber: This is for cutting and engraving bare metal. Just use SendCutSend.com to cut stuff.

    Safety
    If you buy a laser and just comes with pair of glasses for safety and no enclosure, I strongly suggest making some kind of enclosure. Make a wood box or use plastic that will filter out the light. Risking a laser to the eye is not worth it. An exhaust is a must to the outside or to a filter.

    DO NOT laser vinyl, ABS, or polycarbonate the fumes are very toxic.

    For programs I use Coreldraw with Lightburn. There are free options but Lightburn is a lot better to use.

    #2 1 year ago

    Can you cut petg with a diode laser? If so how thick of material can be cut with a 40w?

    #3 1 year ago
    Quoted from abjr:

    Can you cut petg with a diode laser? If so how thick of material can be cut with a 40w?

    Diode lasers will not cut clear materials due to the wavelength. You must step up to at least a 40W CO2 laser which can cut clear materials significantly thicker than whatever you might need for pinball use.

    #4 1 year ago
    Quoted from abjr:

    how thick of material can be cut with a 40w?

    Lots advertise 5mm solid color acrylic and 1/4in wood depending on the wood. That's best case and not mentioning how many passes. I have read that blue colored diodes cut the best.

    #5 1 year ago

    No laser here but Following

    #6 1 year ago

    I came following this from the 3d printing thread.
    Looking forward to contribute here, as I used lasers for architectural model building pre-2010.

    I didn't comment there about the topic of laser to cut whitewoods, my perspective is that (non-industrial) lasers just typically aren't that big to cut in one pass, while CNC setups are regularly the size of a playfield at the professional level.
    The discussion has been cut vs surface etching; there is the ability to do some partial depth etching, but typically on plywood the depth will be a little inconsistent in the same way that it might struggle to cut through harder sections such as a knot. It would take a lot of dialing in to get a measured depth or to create a sloped area.

    #7 1 year ago

    Here's a couple things from my 60 watt laser.
    Santa, Bourbon box, Godzilla key chain. Yellow Laser machine.

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    #8 1 year ago

    Anyone looking to getting into Laser Cutting, just make sure you check the materials you are cutting, use proper ventilation, and do not risk your health.

    Also, if you are looking to cut your own protectors, unless they don’t already exist, PBL’s prices are extremely reasonable and comparable to cutting your own, especially when factoring the time to create the cut vectors.

    #9 1 year ago

    I have never attempted to cut PETG. But my understanding is that it's not an easy material like acrylic, can yellow and melt funky if not cut right.

    1 month later
    #10 1 year ago

    Bumping this thread. We keep getting off topic in the 3D printing thread, and want to be respectful of that topic there, but people are doing a lot of things that would be very simple with lasers. If you're 3D printing lots of flat shapes to make signs etc it's taking you hours and you're always fighting the textures from the filament. Laser will whip that out, and the finished surfaces will look great.

    Honestly 3D printing and lasers are awesome together, it's really understandable that the two topics would keep colliding. If you've seen my new version of my Metallica hammer for instance:

    IMG_6051 2 (resized).jpgIMG_6051 2 (resized).jpg

    That's a PETG 3D printed core, with laser cut wood wrapped around it. 3D printing gives me the structural geometry, and the laser gives me the ability to work with real materials like white oak and have a pleasing exterior.

    IMG_6077 (resized).JPGIMG_6077 (resized).JPG

    This is a custom fight stick I designed, multiple layers of different materials, acrylic, wood, leather, foam, and satin, all cut and etched on my laser, with the custom brackets everything is bolted to 3D printed. Same idea, laser gives you all these big surfaces to work with, 3D printer gives you a way to make it dimensional.

    image (resized).jpegimage (resized).jpeg

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    #11 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Bumping this thread. We keep getting off topic in the 3D printing thread, and want to be respectful of that topic there, but people are doing a lot of things that would be very simple with lasers. If you're 3D printing lots of flat shapes to make signs etc it's taking you hours and you're always fighting the textures from the filament. Laser will whip that out, and the finished surfaces will look great.
    Honestly 3D printing and lasers are awesome together, it's really understandable that the two topics would keep colliding. If you've seen my new version of my Metallica hammer for instance:
    [quoted image]
    That's a PETG 3D printed core, with laser cut wood wrapped around it. 3D printing gives me the structural geometry, and the laser gives me the ability to work with real materials like white oak and have a pleasing exterior.
    [quoted image]
    This is a custom fight stick I designed, multiple layers of different materials, acrylic, wood, leather, foam, and satin, all cut and etched on my laser, with the custom brackets everything is bolted to 3D printed. Same idea, laser gives you all these big surfaces to work with, 3D printer gives you a way to make it dimensional.
    [quoted image]
    [quoted image]
    [quoted image]

    That’s pretty amazing stuff! The hammer is particularly great due to all the materials in use. Great work on the arcade stick too

    #12 1 year ago

    Any recs for a best bang for buck engraver?

    #13 1 year ago
    Quoted from JakePG:

    Any recs for a best bang for buck engraver?

    So as I was just ranting a little bit in the 3D printing thread I really would avoid these open models that are just a bare x-y axis frame. They're starting to get more powerful (40W wtf), and as the opening post notes you really want an enclosure and exhaust for safety and practicality.

    If that laser bounces off something into your eye it will fuck it up good. And the smoke and fumes might not be utterly toxic (you want to avoid cutting things that will do that) but you still want to vent them out and not breathe them in. Not great for your lungs, not something you want to coat your workshop/garage/room's walls and ceiling with. And some things smell pretty bad while being cut.

    You could build an enclosure for one, but I'd just buy a fully set up one, and go CO2 over diode. Diodes can't really cut clear acrylic, and that's sort of a pinball staple thing.

    My go to just to get a sense for the market is https://omtechlaser.com

    They're basically selling the same Chinese lasers as everyone else, but they actually have a US presence and I've heard you can get someone on the phone if something goes wrong.

    What you want to look at just to get a sense for prices is power and cutting area. 40W is enough to do most anything you want, higher power gives you more cutting depth and speed, but if you start getting too high it will be mostly good for cutting and etching will suffer. I personally am using 50W at the moment, it's a pretty good sweet spot.

    You'll notice the cheap 40W machines have a cutting area about the size of a piece of paper. If that feels too limiting that's something to watch for, if you're thinking smaller scale experimenting it can still do a lot. I'd recommend the upgrade card to allow you to use better software like Lightburn.

    There's really no avoiding that if you want to play with 'real' cutting areas and a proper machine setup you're going to spend at least $3k though.

    #14 1 year ago

    eBay 50w co2 as it's all from China anyway. Companies might be in the US but they are all using the same Chinese parts.

    Biggest bang for the buck seems to be building one from a diy CNC kit and adding on the mirrors, lense, and tube. Could take a lot of time though. I might do this as I want a long a skinny work area.

    I wouldn't trust companies advertising with customer support to actually get it. Last time I had to call Epilogue Laser nobody picked up the phone. At Boss Laser it started out fine, but it seems their whole customer support quit at some point. I had to call the sales department to even get someone. I read the Lightburn forums for help now.

    #15 1 year ago
    Quoted from 8bitrobo:

    I wouldn't trust companies advertising with customer support to actually get it. Last time I had to call Epilogue Laser nobody picked up the phone. At Boss Laser it started out fine, but it seems their whole customer support quit at some point. I had to call the sales department to even get someone. I read the Lightburn forums for help now.

    I agree with this, my OmTech comment about the phone was more about if it shows up fucked up, something is broken out of the crate etc, you might able to actually get a human being to take care of their screwup. As opposed to trying to deal straight with China.

    Their prices are about the same as all the other eBay sellers, exact same content in the crate, just has the extra bit of hopefully going slightly smoother after delivery. I think I ordered through their Amazon storefront, I figured that was an extra layer of protection if I got a lemon.

    But honestly it was easy. I ripped out the shit stock exhaust and replaced it with a quality inline fan (thanks indoor cannabis industry for making these readily available), put a proper chiller on it that actually chills, and drilled out the front to wire in an analogue ammeter to keep an eye on the power. Otherwise it's just worked for the most part.

    You shouldn't own a laser if tinkering or problem solving isn't in your wheelhouse imo.

    And yeah, I'd turn to Lightburn forums first too. Really recommend getting a machine compatible with that software.

    #16 1 year ago

    That's a good point about the shipping, especially when it involves a big glass co2 tube.

    #17 1 year ago

    I've looked at getting into lasers to cut my own plastics and new ball guides for some of my old williams machines that have flipper hop from the original stainless ball guides being hammered down around the flippers. I happened upon this thread and have been reading a bit. I don't really care much about etching and was looking at this omtech after Aurich shared the link above: https://omtechlaser.com/collections/mf-series-co2-laser-engravers/products/60w-co2-laser-engraver-cutter-usb-6b57-us

    I'm thinking this may work for my purposes. At this point it's just letting the idea roll around in my head for a bit.

    #18 1 year ago
    Quoted from dyopp21:

    I've looked at getting into lasers to cut my own plastics and new ball guides

    Keep in mind CO2 lasers cannot cut metal. You won’t be making steel ball guides with that machine.

    With 60W you can easily cut ¼” wood, quality plywood, acrylic and of course natural materials like leather and paper and cardboard etc.

    Also for 60W I would budget at least $500 for a chiller.

    #19 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Keep in mind CO2 lasers cannot cut metal. You won’t be making steel ball guides with that machine.

    I currently make ball guides with 3/8" acrylic and a scroll saw. It works but isn't as precise as the laser would be.

    #20 1 year ago
    Quoted from dyopp21:

    I currently make ball guides with 3/8" acrylic and a scroll saw. It works but isn't as precise as the laser would be.

    That's very interesting. How are they installed? Bolt trough the acrylic or a bracket? I thought of using something like 1/8" but wasn't sure how it would hold up over time.

    #21 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Keep in mind CO2 lasers cannot cut metal. You won’t be making steel ball guides with that machine.
    With 60W you can easily cut ¼” wood, quality plywood, acrylic and of course natural materials like leather and paper and cardboard etc.
    Also for 60W I would budget at least $500 for a chiller.

    Chiller is a must. It is funny the aquarium pump and bucket of water that OMTech gives as an OOB solution lol. The advantage? You replace that tube faster ha.

    I think I went with the CW5200 for about $399 2 years ago... now it's $549.

    Edit:

    And OMTech ebay is CHINA support, not USA... you specifically have to buy from USA site or it has to say USA support (I'd call the US OMTech number to verify).

    My ebay listing said US support and was sold shipped from Orion Motor Tech. Gave the serial and it was for China support (they were kinda responsive so not a total let down). In case others run into the same.

    #22 1 year ago
    Quoted from P1nhead:

    Chiller is a must. It is funny the aquarium pump and bucket of water that OMTech gives as an OOB solution lol.

    Yeah, it's utter shit. It's a bit like buying a cheap Ender 3D printer with the understanding that it's rubbish until you do some upgrades. You get the cheap Chinese laser, but you need to take care of a few things.

    Prices are up on everything, like well, everything else. But I'd still spend the cash for something like a CW5200, that's what I use too. Been totally reliable so far.

    #23 1 year ago

    Something for the workshop

    B36F683F-D7D4-41D5-A69A-E0F757A2DDD8 (resized).jpegB36F683F-D7D4-41D5-A69A-E0F757A2DDD8 (resized).jpeg
    #24 1 year ago
    Quoted from Cmartin1235:

    Something for the workshop

    Was that actually done on a laser? From the photo it looks routed.

    #25 1 year ago

    Made this for my niece, used about 12 colors of card stock. Picture may or may not be in correct order.

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    #26 1 year ago

    We use Laser etched acrylic, edge lit by LED's for custom made toppers for our pins.

    It is VERY VERY VERY important:

    Do not look at Laser with remaining eye!

    A little reflection and you without your laser eye protection on, and you can/will suffer permanent eye damage.

    A lot of hobbyist people are buying amazingly cheap laser engraver/cutters. It's very easy to be too casual about eye damage.

    Saftey first.

    They don't make replacement eyes.

    #27 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinRetail:

    We use Laser etched acrylic, edge lit by LED's for custom made toppers for our pins.

    If people haven't seen my take on this idea yet I'm using my laser to make toppers for Tron. They're technically engraved, not etched, because I'm not using any raster fill on them. I'll post a lovely little video review one of my customers put up the other day to show it off:

    I've posted plenty of details about how it's made in my thread, but it's not really a technical conversation there, so if there's anything people have questions on in regard to how I did any of it be happy to answer them here.

    #28 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    If people haven't seen my take on this idea yet I'm using my laser to make toppers for Tron. They're technically engraved, not etched, because I'm not using any raster fill on them. I'll post a lovely little video review one of my customers put up the other day to show it off:

    I've posted plenty of details about how it's made in my thread, but it's not really a technical conversation there, so if there's anything people have questions on in regard to how I did any of it be happy to answer them here.

    That looks pretty amazing - is it multiple layers of acrylic, or are the colors all coming from LEDs?

    #29 1 year ago

    Aurich You are quite correct about the above plaque being routed rather than laser engraved. I have a diode laser and can’t do clear plastic. The plaque hangs on my workshop door. When I am using the laser on my CNC table, I light it up as a warning to family members not to open the door. Also, it serves as a reminder to me to protect my vision.

    #30 1 year ago
    Quoted from Cmartin1235:

    Aurich You are quite correct about the above plaque being routed rather than laser engraved. I have a diode laser and can’t do clear plastic. The plaque hangs on my workshop door. When I am using the laser on my CNC table, I light it up as a warning to family members not to open the door. Also, it serves as a reminder to me to protect my vision.

    What’s the story with the clear plastic and the diode? If you put a mask over the plastic will it cut then?

    #31 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    That looks pretty amazing - is it multiple layers of acrylic, or are the colors all coming from LEDs?

    There are 8 separate pieces of acrylic in two layers, all optically isolated from each other in both the X-Y and Z axis. That's 6 for the bottom part, and 2 for the FLYNN'S sign.

    Everything is lit by 4 separate RGB strips, but they're daisy chained in a breakout board on the back to be treated as one by the Arduino.

    Once you put light into acrylic it bounces around like crazy inside of it, it can go around corners, make 180° turns, and jump gaps to light up other pieces. So if you want effects where you light sections independently and want other parts to actually stay dark you really have to block the light transmission between them completely.

    So for example, to get the N to flicker like it does in the film is an easy bit of code, but if I didn't cut out the N piece separately and mask it off from the other letters it wouldn't actually go dark when I turn it off. The light under it would turn off and the lights for the other letters would still keep it at 90% brightness.

    For the part with two layers I'm also masking between them, sandwiched between the layers all the way around, and down between the strips to keep them from bleeding any light over.

    I put a bunch of pics documenting how it all goes together in this post in my thread:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tron-interactive-topper-pre-orders-aurich-mod/page/3#post-7365240

    #32 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    What’s the story with the clear plastic and the diode? If you put a mask over the plastic will it cut then?

    The diode laser wavelength passes right through clear acrylic. With a CO2 the wavelength is absorbed, vaporizing it.

    If you put a mask over it you'd cut the mask, but it won't change the wavelength absorption in the acrylic itself.

    #33 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    The diode laser wavelength passes right through clear acrylic. With a CO2 the wavelength is absorbed, vaporizing it.
    If you put a mask over it you'd cut the mask, but it won't change the wavelength absorption in the acrylic itself.

    That kind of sucks - very glad I stuck with the CO2 laser, although I didn’t understand all the differences at the time. I cut a LOT of clear acrylic, and it is really damn amazing how clean it comes out. Embossing/engraving is a little more hit or miss with fine details

    #34 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    That kind of sucks - very glad I stuck with the CO2 laser, although I didn’t understand all the differences at the time. I cut a LOT of clear acrylic, and it is really damn amazing how clean it comes out. Embossing/engraving is a little more hit or miss with fine details

    Cutting and etching clear acrylic was the main reason I wanted a laser for years. Once I finally got one I came to appreciate how useful of a tool it is for all sorts of other uses.

    I had a similar experience with owning a 3D printer, I got one for a reason, and then once I had it I discovered how essential of a tool it really is.

    3 weeks later
    #35 1 year ago

    I was looking at these sad Ali pop caps yesterday and had the idea about laser engraving reproduction pop bumper caps.
    89C2AC3B-57CF-459D-83BF-ECD323026D6A (resized).jpeg89C2AC3B-57CF-459D-83BF-ECD323026D6A (resized).jpeg
    These and many others likely will never get hot stamped repros made. Even ones that are reproduced aren’t done fully as they don’t have the lines around the edge. They’d need to be hand painted but just having the lines would make that a paint by numbers affair.

    But reading this thread and being a complete imbecile in terms of lasers, are pop caps made with one of those toxic to cut chemicals?

    Would any of you laser having dudes be interested in doing this?

    #36 1 year ago

    https://www.ulsinc.com/materials/abs-plastic I think the modern caps are made of ABS plastic. According to this you can engrave it. Can anybody confirm?

    #37 1 year ago

    I wouldn't do it in ABS. It is toxic and burns/melts. You could try of colored acrylic. It would have to be machine to get the exact shape.

    #38 1 year ago

    Good to know. My buddy is going to try and etch them on his CNC machine. Maybe lasers won't be needed afterall.

    #39 1 year ago

    I would like to have a piece of 3/16" clear polycarbonate cut. I have a cardboard template of what I need cut and I would want about 100 copies with the possibility of buying more. Rough measurements are 14 inches long by 5 inches wide.

    Where would I go to see about having this kind of work done? The only "plastics" places I can find in my local area just sell sheets of plastic. I can't seem to find any place that can do this kind of custom work.

    Can anyone here offer suggestions?

    #40 1 year ago
    Quoted from John_C:

    I would like to have a piece of 3/16" clear polycarbonate cut. I have a cardboard template of what I need cut and I would want about 100 copies with the possibility of buying more. Rough measurements are 14 inches long by 5 inches wide.
    Where would I go to see about having this kind of work done? The only "plastics" places I can find in my local area just sell sheets of plastic. I can't seem to find any place that can do this kind of custom work.
    Can anyone here offer suggestions?

    Pinball Life can do that for you.

    https://www.pinballlife.com/in-house-manufacturing.html

    #41 1 year ago

    John_C I would try any place that makes signs.

    #42 1 year ago

    CO2 Laser cannot cut Polycarbonate. John C can it be acrylic? CO2 laser can cut that.

    Other wise you are looking at CNC router, but that will not leave a real nice edge.

    #43 1 year ago

    The original piece is polycarbonate but I suppose I could use acrylic. I do want a very clean cut edge.

    #44 1 year ago

    To make those pop bumper caps, you might do better 3D printing it with an appropriately colored translucent resin.

    1 week later
    #45 1 year ago
    Quoted from BobLangelius:

    CO2 Laser cannot cut Polycarbonate. John C can it be acrylic? CO2 laser can cut that.
    Other wise you are looking at CNC router, but that will not leave a real nice edge.

    I mean, you CAN laser PC... just breath in those cyanates and bad double bonded nasties that end in ene.

    PETG can be lasered and will withstand an edge impact from a pinball much more resiliently than acrylic will.

    1 month later
    #46 1 year ago

    Finally did some pinball related acrylic cutting. A book display with working drop targets.

    IMG_20230506_195232 (resized).jpgIMG_20230506_195232 (resized).jpg
    #47 1 year ago

    I had some 1/8in acrylic laying around so I'm trying out using it for ball guides. Time will tell if it will hold up.

    16834283101103369498488584803553 (resized).jpg16834283101103369498488584803553 (resized).jpg
    #48 1 year ago

    After a couple of years, I finally pulled the trigger on a CO2 laser. My main issue has been space, but with the new table top lasers I was able to find a way. I have a ledge at the front of my garage about 30" deep, so I'm adding a 24" deep table there which still allows plenty of room to park my car in it's usual spot as long as I don't pull up as far.

    Ended up going with the OMTech Polar (50W CO2 laser) and also purchased Lightburn to run it. I may end up adding a control panel and red laser for dot alignment (will be using if/when using passthrough for larger projects). The main purposes is for cutting custom/reproduction pinball plastics (a service I offer), which I currently outsource but now looking forward to using my imagination for a multitude of other projects.

    #49 1 year ago
    Quoted from 8bitrobo:

    I had some 1/8in acrylic laying around so I'm trying out using it for ball guides. Time will tell if it will hold up.
    [quoted image]

    In my experience extruded acrylic has served as a great material for pinball plastics, and I think cast acrylic is probably a little less impact resistant but etches better, in general. What type of acrylic did you make these from? BTW, you might consider rounding the corners of the lead edges where they could potentially take a direct ball impact.

    Also, I do my plastics in 3/32" material but if/when knows to be high impact areas (e.g. certain plastics are known to break frequently) then I use 1/8" extruded acrylic.

    #50 1 year ago

    I was always under the impression that casted acrylic was stronger and more scratch resistant. Extruded was good for price and forming because it easier to heat up.

    As for the acrylic I used it was just some stuff I had sitting around. I'm assuming it is extruded. This was more of a test fit.

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