(Topic ID: 298204)

Laser Ball displays wonky on player 3 & 4 only

By Spybryon

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 7 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Quench
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

4543_TruthTable.png
wolfpactech (resized).JPG
#1 2 years ago

Working on a Williams Laser Ball with wonky displays on player 3 & 4 only.

It has a new set of LED displays.

In display test player 3 & 4 display the following digits :

Correct / Player 3&4
000000 / 888888
111111 / 999999
222222 / Blank
333333 / Blank
444444 / Blank
555555 / Blank
666666 / Blank
777777 / Blank
888888 / 888888
999999 / 999999

There's also a single bad segment, the bottom segment on player 4 thousands digit never turns on.

Video :

I could use some ideas what to check into for this problem?

I have a logic probe to help figure it out.

#2 2 years ago

Bump, I think that you may have a chip problem, but I don't know which one. Sorry but it is a bump regardless.

#3 2 years ago

I'm not a Williams guy but looking at the schematics, you have a bad connection between the MPU board J5 pin 5 and the master display board at J6 pin 8.

Check if pin 4 on IC 8 (4543 chip) on the master display is pulsing during display test. The incorrect/blank numbers indicate that pin is stuck high not allowing numbers under 8 to be displayed for players #3 and #4.

I'm presuming the LED master display board has the same chip number locations as the factory boards.

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

I'm presuming the LED master display board has the same chip number locations as the factory boards.

The video shows that it's using Wolffpactech displays.

Found the schematic here, https://ea220797-3ca6-4fed-a391-47553096ec99.filesusr.com/ugd/07f9d3_be3cf58e859849b18712cbb95ea4155b.pdf

Looks like Q1, which is a ULN2803 could be the problem since it's driving display 3 & 4?

EDIT: OR possibly U3 or U4 since those are inputs to Q1.

wolfpactech (resized).JPGwolfpactech (resized).JPG

#5 2 years ago

The signal chain through J7, U3, U4, Q1 is used to select display digits, i.e. 10's, 100's, 1000's etc digits. That path doesn't control what numbers are displayed.

The signal path for displays 3 and 4 used for number decoding is through J6, U2 then U7.
U2 is a chip that converts a binary number input from connector J6 into a 7 segment display number output for the displays. Your problem is that this chip is lacking activity on one of the binary inputs used to select numbers 0 through to 7. This is pin 4 on U2. Check it with your logic probe. No activity means there's likely an open circuit from the MPU board to it.

#6 2 years ago

Thanks to your great advice Quench, the displays are now fixed and working perfectly.

Using a logic probe on IC chip U2 on the master display there was good pulse on pin 4. It was also noticed that all 4 displays worked correctly for a brief time after powering off / on and starting the display test, than started to fail again soon after.

Next I noticed pushing down on the pins of U2 with the logic probe allowed the digits on player 3 & 4 to be temporarily started all working during display test. So the solution was simply reflowing the solder on all the pins of U2. This IC had been poorly soldered to the board and reflowing the solder was the solution.

Next, the individual display with a segment out on player 4 1000s digit, that was solved by reflowing the solder on that individual 1000s digit LED. Once that was done the segment of the display was working correctly.

#7 2 years ago

Cool,
For your reference, below is the truth table for the 4543 decoder chip at U2 showing how the output is affected by the input logic levels.
You can see that display numbers 0 through 7 require data input "Dd" (pin 4) to go low. When you were having the suspect connection the chip was only seeing seeing it as a logic high level.

4543_TruthTable.png4543_TruthTable.png

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
From: $ 11.00
$ 170.00
Displays
Digipinball Shop
 
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 20.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
From: $ 9.00
$ 44.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
 
$ 12.50
Lighting - Led
RoyGBev Pinball
 
$ 9.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
From: $ 90.00
Tools
Pincoder Store
 
From: $ 1.25
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/laser-ball-displays-wonky-on-player-3-amp-4-only and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.