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» Large Sega display worked fine till it was moved

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Large Sega display worked fine till it was moved

By Shenanigander

8 years ago

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71 posts
16 Pinsiders participating
Latest reply 8 years ago by Shenanigander
Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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Batman Forever Sega, 1995

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There are 71 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

#51 8 years ago

KLB

kbliznick

Firebird Pinball

Phoenix, AZ

11y 63,900 2,438 5 4

Checked the Baywatch manual as it has the schematics for 3 different manufacturers of the large display. Power inputs at the display are as follows

Pins 1 2 3 4
Cherry 12V gnd gnd n/c
Babcock 12V gnd gnd n/c
Dale 5V gnd gnd 24V

(I think in all cases it's 18 volts used for the higher voltage)

Now most of the wiring harnesses for these games have a main harness that should likely be the same for all the games that terminates into a flat wide large 4 pin connector and then a small secondary harness that is only 4-10" long that attaches at one end to the main harness and the other end directly to the display.

I attached a picture of the main harness to secondary harness connector.

If you are swapping displays between games and they are different brands then I believe you have to keep the secondary harness matched with the display brand. (I am not 100% sure so double check the power with a meter at the connectors).

Maverick_backbox.jpg

#52 8 years ago

ICK

Shenanigander

Pinside member

London, ON

11y 78,625 2,213

Yes the pins are reversed in maverick and batman but the connector must have been angled at the two corners on maverick as it is on batman so that it only plugs in the correct way. I will check tomorrow and take pics.

Ok ok I promise I will look into the DMD extender link (again) but it looked beyond my ability or interest in spending endless time on one. Maybe it is not so bad but will reinvestigate

Huh maybe I got some bad info about vishay. How do I find what brand my DMD is?

Do you have to remove the glass to change the caps?

#53 8 years ago

KLB

kbliznick

Firebird Pinball

Phoenix, AZ

11y 63,900 2,438 5 4

OP
Quoted from Shenanigander:
Yes the pins are reversed in Maverick and batman but the connector must have been angled at the two corners on Maverick as it is on batman so that it only plugs in the correct way.

No guarantee on that. From the schematics it looks like you may have run 18V into the 5V line depending on the game

OP
Quoted from Shenanigander:
Huh maybe I got some bad info about vishay. How do I find what brand my DMD is?

Should be printed on it. You may have to disassemble the metal shields to see more of the circuit board

OP
Quoted from Shenanigander:
Do you have to remove the glass to change the caps?

No, You can't remove the glass on these boards as it's a glued ribbon cable and not pins that you can desolder. IIRC I had to bend the old caps in order to cut them off and then soldered in new caps higher than the board so that I could reach the solder pads. Don't recall which brands I did that one.

#54 8 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

14y 234K 17,632 104

OP
Quoted from Shenanigander:
How do I find what brand my DMD is?

It should be printed on the green board on the back of the DMD. it should be noticeable.
Snap a picture of the whole DMD if you don't mind.

1 week later

#55 8 years ago

ICK

Shenanigander

Pinside member

London, ON

11y 78,625 2,213

Sorry guys for the hiatus. Well I finally got back to Batman today, only to add more LED's but when I turned the machine on the display came on and stayed for 30 min while I led'd the machine and then played a full game. Very cool dots by the way!

006.jpg

Notice there is a vertical line out. Well stranger yet, after I played my game the line came back to life:

008.jpg

This is funny because I just had not given up hope on this display yet but can anyone explain what the heck just happened? Remember I tested the voltages to the display and they were all within spec.

#56 8 years ago

ICK

Shenanigander

Pinside member

London, ON

11y 78,625 2,213

Here are the voltages from my test before:
pin 1 = 4.94v,
pin 2 = 0,
pin 3 = 0,
pin 4 = 18.24v.

#57 8 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

Berea, OH

11y 113K 11,267 3 12

I cannot say for certain the specific cause of your problem. Realize that you can measure correct voltages, but still have a problem with the amount of current being supplied. It is also possible that this is not supply related at all, but could be data related.

Another thought: originally this problem started when it was moved, and now display operation has mysteriously returned. A loose or broken connection of some type, cracked trace or header perhaps somewhere might be possible. If it were me, I'd probably be tapping around with the back of a screwdriver, shaking the game, trying to see if I could duplicate the outage from some type of mechanical vibration.

#58 8 years ago

RST

PinRob

Pinside member

11y 103K 3,765 39

A little off topic but are you LEDing the machine while it's on? That may lead to trouble IMO

#59 8 years ago

PAB

MustangPaul

LED Leg Light-Ups

Saint Paul, MN

11y 136K 23,313 10

Quoted from PinRob:
A little off topic but are you LEDing the machine while it's on? That may lead to trouble IMO

I did that once and blew a transistor on my NASCAR. But it didn't affect the dmd.

#60 8 years ago

RST

PinRob

Pinside member

11y 103K 3,765 39

Quoted from MustangPaul:
I did that once and blew a transistor on my Nascar. But it didn't affect the dmd.

I know it's unrelated to the DMD. I was just cautioning him about LEDing a machine powered up.

#61 8 years ago

ICK

Shenanigander

Pinside member

London, ON

11y 78,625 2,213

Quoted from PinRob:
A little off topic but are you LEDing the machine while it's on? That may lead to trouble IMO

I do know better but haven't learned the lesson the hard way yet so I keep up with the bad habit

#62 8 years ago

ICK

Shenanigander

Pinside member

London, ON

11y 78,625 2,213

Looking like I should redo the 5v connection on the power supply board. Reflow headers and new molex connector.

#63 8 years ago

PAB

MustangPaul

LED Leg Light-Ups

Saint Paul, MN

11y 136K 23,313 10

OP
Quoted from Shenanigander:
Looking like I should redo the 5v connection on the power supply board. Reflow headers and new molex connector.

At least you know how to do that, I haven't the faintist idea how to do stuff like that.

#64 8 years ago

ICK

Shenanigander

Pinside member

London, ON

11y 78,625 2,213

Quoted from MustangPaul:
At least you know how to do that, I haven't the faintist idea how to do stuff like that.

I'll likely hire my friend

2 weeks later

#65 8 years ago

ICK

Shenanigander

Pinside member

London, ON

11y 78,625 2,213

Hey all! So good and bad news. The display is randomly turning on and off. Sometimes it lasts for one game, sometimes longer. So I think I can rule out that the display is dead or that is it outgassed. I've been testing voltages and for the most part are testing fine. Not a full 5v though. More like 4.92v but I'm guessing that is close enough. I'm going to reflow the header pins top right of this pic (5v to dmd control board). I think I was losing a bit of voltage from the molex to the board but very minimal.

030.jpg

Quoted from kbliznick:
Also, I have been able to repair 2 non working/partial working large displays by changing the large caps on the board.

The caps you are referring to are these?

031.jpg

I'm thinking cold solder somewhere or maybe the caps. If the caps should I be doing the dmd caps, dmd control board caps or the psu caps?

#66 8 years ago

ICK

Shenanigander

Pinside member

London, ON

11y 78,625 2,213

Crap I forgot to reread page 2 so maybe my last post may have been redundant sorry. Will re-read page 2 and edit f needed.

#67 8 years ago

ICK

Shenanigander

Pinside member

London, ON

11y 78,625 2,213

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
It should be printed on the green board on the back of the DMD. it should be noticeable.
Snap a picture of the whole DMD if you don't mind.

Looks like a Babcock.

043.JPG

#68 8 years ago

ICK

Shenanigander

Pinside member

London, ON

11y 78,625 2,213

Quoted from kbliznick:
Checked the Baywatch manual as it has the schematics for 3 different manufacturers of the large display. Power inputs at the display are as follows

Pins 1 2 3 4
Cherry 12V gnd gnd n/c
Babcock 12V gnd gnd n/c
Dale 5V gnd gnd 24V

With the display folded down is pin 1 on the left? From this pic (left to right) I get 4.92v, gnd, gnd, 18.24. And I have a Babcock.

031.jpg

#69 8 years ago

ICK

Shenanigander

Pinside member

London, ON

11y 78,625 2,213

PROGRESS (I think): I can completely rule out the display driver board. I forgot that when I was swapping with Maverick that I actually left my Maverick display board on my Batman display and Maverick has never had a display problem.

In other words Maverick display board never had a problem when in Maverick but Batman is having same issue with either display boards.

So ruling out the display driver board and not reflowing the headers on it.

#70 8 years ago

2+2

Jgaltr56

Pinside+ Member

9y 76,350 1,200 15

I just replaced my power supply board in BF with a X pin XP-DE5047. The display was resetting during gameplay, usually when a solenoid fired. Not sure but most likely was the 5V supply dropping too low. Works great now, problem solved. It's a nice design, and is a drop in replacement.

#71 8 years ago

ICK

Shenanigander

Pinside member

London, ON

11y 78,625 2,213

Quoted from Jgaltr56:
I just replaced my power supply board in BF with a X pin XP-DE5047. The display was resetting during gameplay, usually when a solenoid fired. Not sure but most likely was the 5V supply dropping too low. Works great now, problem solved. It's a nice design, and is a drop in replacement.

Excellent. I'm going to rebuild the 5v on the ps board 1st and see what happens but yours is a good option. Thanks for sharing!

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