(Topic ID: 137180)

Large Sega display worked fine till it was moved


By atariaction

4 years ago



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  • 71 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by atariaction
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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There are 71 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 4 years ago

Just picked up a Batman Forever. The display worked fine for the seller until he moved it out of the bedroom to the living room where I was to inspect it. The display stopped working entirely. It is blank. No lines, no glitching, nothing.

I reseated all the cables. I checked all the fuses (I don't think I missed any) and there is still nothing on the display.

Can a display outgas that fast? Or is that something that happens over time?

To me it seems like there is no power to the display but I did not check voltage.

Any suggestions on the next step to take? If I need to check the voltage how exactly do I do that?

#2 4 years ago

Been a while since I had one of these, but I remember I had to order some type of wiring kit from Marco to draw the power supply from some other place on the board. This was about 10 years ago so I am kind of shooting from the hip so to speak.

#3 4 years ago

I did read about that kit and I will order one up

#4 4 years ago

Same thing happened to ours not long ago. Went out just like that, all of a sudden. Hate to say this but on closer examination, there were what appeared to be two or three solder points that had failed and were arcing behind the small connector at the bottom of the DMD. Worst part: they were unreachable! Couldn't just repair it. Had to bite the considerably large bullet ($475 at Pinball Life) and purchase a new one.
Best Wishes

#5 4 years ago

I have a Maverick. Is it ok to move the Maverick display to the Batman and test that or could I damage the Maverick display this way?

#6 4 years ago

I believe there is a fuse in the backbox below the power supply that isn't mounted to a board. It's sometimes hidden behind wires. Make sure it is not blown.

#7 4 years ago

Got it. Tested and good.

#8 4 years ago

Not sure if this is related but every time i turn on the machine the audio says "suppose we.." and then cuts out. I'm guessing that is not correct?

#9 4 years ago

That is normal from what I can tell. Mine does it as well.

#10 4 years ago

really? that seems odd. well i swapped my maverick display with my batman. didnt work. swapped the display boards and the board worked. so i guess the display is bad anyone have one for sale?

#11 4 years ago

Now might be the time to seriously consider the DMD extender and put in the color. Pieced out, should be cheaper as well. Will be converting mine in the next month or so... Just waiting on a few parts.

#12 4 years ago

Message me, a friend of mine has a stack of NOS displays for much cheaper.

#13 4 years ago

I agree with hd. My large display went out in frankenstein a few months ago. I did the dmd extender and am extremely pleased. Take a look at those threads.

#14 4 years ago

Mike - these displays create have their own power supply, so if this fails, the display can as well. I second the option of the DIY colour display over another original if you think you are going to keep it for a while, may be cheaper, look better and increase the value more. Talk to Darrell, as he did this with his SW. I planned on going this route if my Mav display ever kicks out.

But if not, looks like Kris above knows of some at a cheaper price.

#15 4 years ago

I just remember when we tested the voltage it was about 4.75 or so and I read that if it is below 4.9 it may not work. I think the bridge on the power supply board is responsible for this. Is there a chance that if I replaced the bridge and brought it up to 5v then it may work?

Maybe if i stick my Maverick display on my batman and the display does not work then I can suspect something else (like the ps board).

Is there any risk of damaging my Maverick display if i stick it in my Batman Forever?

#16 4 years ago

Double check that the power supply wired into the displays are the same first and if that's OK, then you can swap the displays back and forth between the games with little risk.

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from kbliznick:

Message me, a friend of mine has a stack of NOS displays for much cheaper.

Now you tell me!
Are you talking about the large Sega DMD's? If so , price?
Thanks

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from rollitover:

Now you tell me!
Are you talking about the large Sega DMD's? If so , price?
Thanks

Did you have the BF at the Pinball BBQ this spring?

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

Did you have the BF at the Pinball BBQ this spring?

Twasn't me....

#20 4 years ago

First of all, where did you test your 5v supply? What you're saying with voltage tolerance is correct, but it's only the display driver board that requires 5.0v and virtually no less. Since you have ruled out the display driver board being the culprit (you also answered your own cross-compatibility question) then the issue is either with the display itself (likely) or, if you're lucky, the 5v and/or 18v/24v supplies going to the display. Check your voltages at the DMD power connector as described below.

Super-Size 192x64 DMD, connector P3:

P3 pin 1: +5 volts
P3 pin 2: Ground
P3 pin 3: Ground
P3 pin 4: +24 volts

The wiring harness upgrade is most likely already present in your machine.

There is an update kit available from DataEast/Sega/Stern for the large dot matrix display games. This kit is a wiring harness that goes directly between power supply and the large dot matrix display which runs the +5 vdc directly from the power supply to the dot matrix display. The kit is part# 500-6326-00, and costs about $11. The kit can be purchased from Stern, or self-manufactured (many distributors do not stock this kit). Also the kit can be made for much less than $11.

If these are within spec then I believe you are out of luck. This particular large display is known for just failing for no apparent reason. The high voltage driving circuitry typically fries itself/shorts out. Vishay used to repair these, but they no longer do. In my opinion the only reasonably priced alternative is DMD Extender.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/diy-addams-family-poor-mans-color-dmd

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

First of all, where did you test your 5v supply? What you're saying with voltage tolerance is correct, but it's only the display driver board that requires 5.0v and virtually no less. Since you have ruled out the display driver board being the culprit (you also answered your own cross-compatibility question) then the issue is either with the display itself (likely) or, if you're lucky, the 5v and/or 18v/24v supplies going to the display. Check your voltages at the DMD power connector as described below.

The wiring harness upgrade is most likely already present in your machine.

If these are within spec then I believe you are out of luck. This particular large display is known for just failing for no apparent reason. The high voltage driving circuitry typically fries itself/shorts out. Vishay used to repair these, but they no longer do. In my opinion the only reasonably priced alternative is DMD Extender.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/diy-addams-family-poor-mans-color-dmd

Excellent! I will test the voltages thanks! Im sure the upgrade kit is not in the machine. Been home use since 1999 and he did not know much about pinball. His only game.

#22 4 years ago

Wow. That's the first game I've heard of not having the upgrade kit. Can you do me a favor and trace the harness from the DMD connector to the rest of the backbox? I'm curious to know where the DMD power cable originally ran (guessing somewhere on the driver board).

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from atariaction:

I have a Maverick. Is it ok to move the Maverick display to the Batman and test that or could I damage the Maverick display this way?

Yes. They are interchangeble (verify power supply wire first). Baywatch, Batmab, Maverick and Frankenstein all use the large dmd and will work in eachother. All are sensitive to the 5 vdc power wire feed them too. If it drops to like 4.82 vdc, as an example, you can usually expect problems. Like you mentioned, there is a kit to address that issue. Fairly easy to install.

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Wow. That's the first game I've heard of not having the upgrade kit. Can you do me a favor and trace the harness from the DMD connector to the rest of the backbox? I'm curious to know where the DMD power cable originally ran (guessing somewhere on the driver board).

Here are both ends. Connected to PS.

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006.JPG

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from Warbound:

Yes. They are interchangeble (verify power supply wire first). Baywatch, Batmab, Maverick and Frankenstein all use the large dmd and will work in eachother. All are sensitive to the 5 vdc power wire feed them too. If it drops to like 4.82 vdc, as an example, you can usually expect problems. Like you mentioned, there is a kit to address that issue. Fairly easy to install.

OK thanks. I just wanted to make sure that there will be no damage inflicted to my good display if I tried swapping. But if my old bad one is gassed out then that is nothing that my machine caused to the display. That is just an old display doing what it does....dying!

#26 4 years ago

That's upgraded. Otherwise that header on the power supply would have nothing installed there.

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

That's upgraded. Otherwise that header on the power supply would have nothing installed there.

Really? So the original operator must have got the service bulletin and did the upgrade I guess. So I guess I do not have to order the upgrade kit!

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from atariaction:

OK thanks. I just wanted to make sure that there will be no damage inflicted to my good display if I tried swapping. But if my old bad one is gassed out then that is nothing that my machine caused to the display. That is just an old display doing what it does....dying!

Didn't your display just go all out though? I have never heard outgassing blip a dmd out all at once. Did you try your dmd in another pin? That way you can rule out the display and focus on low and high voltage circuits feeding it within your pin.

#29 4 years ago

Not outgassing, as that happens over time with some usable image still on the screen.

#30 4 years ago

Try pushing the wire more into the connector. That worked temporarily on a Baywatch I worked on at the Dallas Pinball Fest 2 years ago.

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from Warbound:

Didn't your display just go all out though? I have never heard outgassing blip a dmd out all at once. Did you try your dmd in another pin? That way you can rule out the display and focus on low and high voltage circuits feeding it within your pin.

Yes went from working to completely dead in a blip. I tried the dmd in my maverick and it did not work there.

#32 4 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Not outgassing, as that happens over time with some usable image still on the screen.

That is what I thought but was not sure.

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Try pushing the wire more into the connector. That worked temporarily on a Baywatch I worked on at the Dallas Pinball Fest 2 years ago.

Ok will try that. I reseated all cables 3 times but didn't try pushing harder to make a better contact.

#34 4 years ago

Can you push the high voltage connector like halfway o the pins at tbe dmd? Then probe the dmd pins with your multi meter? This is to make sure the voltage is reaching the dmd pins. I do this all the time when I test out my dmd issues.

#35 4 years ago
Quoted from Warbound:

Can you push the high voltage connector like halfway o the pins at tbe dmd? Then probe the dmd pins with your multi meter? This is to make sure the voltage is reaching the dmd pins. I do this all the time when I test out my dmd issues.

Yeah that's what I was thinking too. It's strange for it to go out all at once since it was just working. And check all the pins in the cable for continuity.

#36 4 years ago

check the connector going to the DMD, not the DMD controller board. There are at least 3 different manufacturers of the large display and some of them have a different pinout to the 4 pin connector (or was it 3 pin) going to the DMD itself. I have encountered this once on a Frankenstein.

#37 4 years ago

I tested the voltage tonight:
pin 1 = 4.94v,
pin 2 = 0,
pin 3 = 0,
pin 4 = 18.24v.

On my maverick the connector is reversed so pin 1 = 17v+/- (fluctuates and never settles on a number)
pin 2 = 0,
pin 3 = 0,
pin 4 = 4.99v.

So I'm guessing that since the voltages are correct my display is officially dead?

Also i cant slide the connector up the pins a bit to access them to test if the voltage is getting to the dmd. (see pic)

005.jpg

#38 4 years ago

Confirm DMD is at fault by connecting it up to Batman Forever. I hope it turns out to be ok.
You could even test out the DMD power cable in BF as well.
I would bet on a ribbon cable or DMD controller board to be at fault.

#39 4 years ago

Man that stinks bud. I wish I was a board expert. I usually learn as I go. As expensive as these dmd's are, you sure want to make darn sure it's dead before you buy another. Having said that. Why don't you take a close up pic of the dmd and dmd board and post here. Maybe a guru here will see something that could lead to another path attempt at bringing this thing back to life. Who knows, maybe a capacitor looks odd or a pcb trace looks cooked for example. It is worth a try anyway.

#40 4 years ago
Quoted from atariaction:

Also i cant slide the connector up the pins a bit to access them to test if the voltage is getting to the dmd.

You could use one of those 3M squeeze wire connectors (can't remember what it's called) on #1 and 4 with a short wire coming out of each connector and test from them. When done take the connector off and wrap each wire with electrical tape. That's the down and dirty way. But if it didn't work in your Maverick then it's probably dead.

#41 4 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

if it didn't work in your Maverick then it's probably dead.

Yep I'm afraid that may be the case. I did try the BF Display in the Maverick and nothing.

#42 4 years ago
Quoted from atariaction:

Yep I'm afraid that may be the case. I did try the BF Display in the Maverick and nothing.

Bummer. It is a Vishay DMD? If so, they do still repair them less than $200

#43 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Bummer. It is a Vishay DMD? If so, they do still repair them less than $200

I heard they don't repair anymore. I have 2 used ones with partial issues coming form overseas. Fair price but one cracked and one semi gassing. Better than nothing and better than $700+ new after exchange rate, tax, and shipping.

#44 4 years ago

As of 2 months ago, Vishay was still repairing their brand of DMD's.

From a pinside member who contacted Vishay.
Lynn @ VISHAY called me back today -- GOOD NEWS !!
They are still taking on DMD Plasma Repairs and they are still manufacturing Plasma DMD's for retail sales.

FYI they also make LED DMD's in multiple colors.

Should I start a new thread titled VISHAY / DALE DMD's Still Being Repaired ?

Current Repair Prices:

192 x 64 $180.92
128 x 32 $86.53
128 x 16 NLA - Balance of 128 x 16 parts & stock bought out by MAD Amusements

She is THE contact at VISHAY for all Plasma Repairs:
Lynn Coulter - phone:
402.563.6286

Email:
Lynne.Coulter@vishay.com

Only caveat I will toss out there is they ONLY Repair VISHAY, VISHAY/DALE or DALE Plasma Displays - if you have a Babcock, Cherry or anything else they won't Repair it.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-my-dmd-repairable#post-2496799

#45 4 years ago
Quoted from atariaction:

Yep I'm afraid that may be the case. I did try the BF Display in the Maverick and nothing.

I'm confused. You said the connectors are different (reversed) between the displays in the 2 games. If that is correct than of course the displays wont light when you switch them between the games.

#46 4 years ago

Also, I have been able to repair 2 non working/partial working large displays by changing the large caps on the board.

#47 4 years ago
Quoted from atariaction:

I heard they don't repair anymore. I have 2 used ones with partial issues coming form overseas. Fair price but one cracked and one semi gassing. Better than nothing and better than $700+ new after exchange rate, tax, and shipping.

You could always do the extender for way cheaper like mentioned above.

#49 4 years ago
Quoted from kbliznick:

I'm confused. You said the connectors are different (reversed) between the displays in the 2 games. If that is correct than of course the displays wont light when you switch them between the games.

Good point. Hey O.P. did you improvise? Used jumper wires to compensate for different pin-outs? If no then possible this thing is not a dead dog yet. If so, I would agree withe earlier posts to get it tested in another game ASAP!!!! Pronto!

#50 4 years ago
Quoted from kbliznick:

I'm confused. You said the connectors are different (reversed) between the displays in the 2 games. If that is correct than of course the displays wont light when you switch them between the games.

If he did that wouldn't he have blown something? 18v going into something that was designed for 5v.

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