Lamps on a circuit only work after pinball's on for a while

(Topic ID: 223292)

Lamps on a circuit only work after pinball's on for a while


By bivo

3 months ago



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  • 14 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 88 days ago by bivo
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circuit-1 (resized).jpg

#1 3 months ago

I've got a strange problem on my CFTBL. 4 lamps on the same circuit (P-A-I-D) are not working when the pinball is turned on. The test "All Lamps" doesn't turn them on. Then suddenly, when the machine has been on for a while (approx 30min), all lamps are working. Then when I turn it off and on within the minute everything works. But, when it's off for a while, I get the same non-working behaviour. The soldering on the circuit seem fine as I can see. Anyone had this experience or any ideas how to do some troubleshooting? "Feels" like something with the heat generated does some magic?

Cheers.

circuit-1 (resized).jpg

#2 3 months ago

Lamp matrix shows Q98 drives that column. Any issue with the other lamps in the column, Left Jet, Right Jet, Bottom Jet, and Admit One?

#3 3 months ago

Yeah, you're right. All three Jet lamps and Admin One are also not working at the moment - when the pinball has been off for a while. They'll probably behave in the same manner when the pinball gets "hot".

#4 3 months ago

The heat isn't magical. It just affects the expansion or contraction of metals. If you have a cracked solder joint on your plug pins, for example, it may not work when the game starts and the metal is cold. That's because the crack is preventing a good connection between the board and the pin. But, once you heat it up some, the metal expands on a microscopic scale. It may not seem like much, but it can be enough to make a steady connection between two otherwise unconnected points. The same thing can happen with a failing component.

In the meantime, I'd try wiggling plug J137 on your power board, and see what happens. If your lights change state (go from working to not or not working to working), it's a good sign you probably have a cracked solder joint on pin 1.

#5 3 months ago

Yes, you're absolutely right about the cracked solder joint, which was just what I was looking for, but only on the lamp circuit . Should have checked the rest as well - J137 and maybe soldering of Q98 (as implied by YeOldPinPlayer).

#6 3 months ago
Quoted from CadillacMusic:

try wiggling plug J137 on your power board, and see what happens. If your lights change state (go from working to not or not working to working), it's a good sign you probably have a cracked solder joint on pin 1.

You'll find a drawing of your power driver board that shows the location of J137 on page 3-22 in the manual. Reflowing the solder on pin 1 may be all you need.

#7 3 months ago

Yeah, I located it in the bottom right corner of the board, it's just one wire on it. Hopefully it'll help just detaching it and then reattaching, otherwise it seem like a minor pain in the b**t to take down the whole board, just to check the soldering on the back.

#8 3 months ago

(Just removed rambling)

#9 3 months ago

I would reflow the connections on the lamp board too, the photo looks like it’s showing some hairline cracks in the solder around the pins.

#10 3 months ago
Quoted from Crash:

I would reflow the connections on the lamp board too, the photo looks like it’s showing some hairline cracks in the solder around the pins.

Yeah, that will be the last step I guess. Since the whole row is not working, it "should" be the soldering on Q98. Then, if all lamps work except for PAID, it's probably cracks in the PAID circuit as well, which'll have to be reflowed as well.

Quoted from CadillacMusic:

I'd try wiggling plug J137 on your power board, and see what happens. If your lights change state (go from working to not or not working to working), it's a good sign you probably have a cracked solder joint on pin 1.

Unfortunately the wiggling did not help, so I'm left with taking down the whole circuit.

#11 3 months ago

I think it's more likely to be cracked solder at J137. You may be able to test the output of Q98 easily if you can get to it with your meter.

#12 3 months ago

Ok, but either way I'll have to take down the circuit to be able to get to the back of the board and reflow. It's incredibly tight but I'll try to get to Q98 with the meter.

#13 3 months ago

Just tested Q98 and got a reading of approx 0.6 and 0.5.

#14 88 days ago

I've just done a reflow on Q98 and on the 3rd pin on J137 and now all lamps are up and kicking. Don't know which one of the reflow did it, but it looked like Q98 was quite bad. Huge thanks to all of you and your great analysis, input and superb help , appreciate it a lot.

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