(Topic ID: 291891)

Lamp Row Issue - on Data East Game

By brainmegaphone

3 years ago


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  • 15 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by northvibe
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#1 3 years ago

New (to me) game. Data East Jurassic Park.

Row 2 lights are out (Q73). This was clearly replaced and the work was a little messy so I was hopeful cleaning it up would fix the issue. In circuit it tested slightly out of spec to the rest of them. I removed it, cleaned up the area and replaced with a TIP 102. No go - entire row still out.

I ground the metal tab of Q73 during test and the entire row lights up. I also connected another row (Pin 1 of CN5) to this row (Pin 2) and the entire row lights up in test. This leads me to conclude the Q73 is fine. I checked the ceramic resistor to make sure it was on the board and had continuity throughout per a guide's recommendation.

According to the same guides my next step is the Q82 which is a 2N5060 (NTE5400) silicone controlled rectifier or the PIA. I don't have any of these in my stash but I can order some.

Is there anything else simple I'm missing here given the troubleshooting I listed above? I don't believe it is anything else downstream right given the row lights up when jumpered to another row?

#2 3 years ago

So I do have 2N5064 on hand because Great Plains Electronics sold them to me as the substitute for the 2N5060 which I must have needed for another project. Installed that without any change.

#3 3 years ago

Since you mentioned previous work, I would verify you have continuity between the cathode of D9 and the base of Q73.

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#4 3 years ago

Yes thank you I do have continuity there. Doing further tinkering tonight I did notice two additional things:

1. The 7406 associated with the lamp return has a short between pin 7-8. The other 7406 near it does not have this same short. I think this may be the problem.

2. D9 was open - not working at all.

I replaced D9 and no change (but still see pin 8 open to ground on the 7406). My next best guess is the 7406 needs replacing but I do not have one. Unless someone thinks I'm on the wrong track I'll plan to cut it out and install a socket (which I have) and wait for the part to come in. I'm wondering if something took out this entire line (the transistor, diode, scr, and 7406).

#5 3 years ago

Just linking and archiving in case future people read this thread.

Very helpful info here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/7406-inverter-test#post-1017085

#6 3 years ago

Further follow up...

I installed a socket and replaced the 7406 located at F-12 (F 12). This is the one that was shorted. All lights appear to now be working properly. I had two lights stuck on but realized after that the lights over the in-lanes ("Lite Dock and Lite Adv X") are tied to GI and not controlled so they are operating normally.

I have noticed if the game runs for a bit that a few of the controlled lights stop working in attract or test mode. If I push on the connector they work again so I am hoping this gets resolved when I replace the IDC connectors and evaluate the headers.

NVRAM and some other parts (flipper rebuild) arrive today. My ground braid behind the DMD is broken and I'm hoping fixing that helps with the hum. I know the DE/Sega games are loud but right now it is too loud.

I'll update this thread if I discover anything else on the board that I had to fix related to the lights worth documenting for future readers.

1 week later
#7 3 years ago

This will be my last and final post as I consider my issue resolved. I replaced the applicable connectors (in this case CN 6 and CN7) with new molex connectors. These were original to the game I believe as it still had the weak IDC ones installed. That resolved the remaining issues with the lights.

All lights work as normal.

In conclusion - Row 2 was out and when a Q73 replacement did not resolve the problem I ultimately traced it to a faulty 7406 located at F-12 (F 12) and an open D9. Residual light outages were the result of old connectors on the board which were replaced. Everything appears to be working normally now on the controlled lights.

2 years later
#8 7 months ago

I stumbled upon this thread with a similar issue.
LW3 row 1 is all out at q72

Anywho, I grabbed my logic probe and tested the two 7406's and the one tested funny, most/all logic legs on the left one were high/low but on the right side it was either or. We need to do the diode test on the legs per the schematics. Seems like this video makes it easy

#9 7 months ago
Quoted from northvibe:

I stumbled upon this thread with a similar issue.
LW3 row 1 is all out at q72
Anywho, I grabbed my logic probe and tested the two 7406's and the one tested funny, most/all logic legs on the left one were high/low but on the right side it was either or. We need to do the diode test on the legs per the schematics. Seems like this video makes it easy

Glad my old thread may have helped out. In my case the 7406 was shorted...

#10 7 months ago
Quoted from northvibe:

I stumbled upon this thread with a similar issue.
LW3 row 1 is all out at q72
Anywho, I grabbed my logic probe and tested the two 7406's and the one tested funny, most/all logic legs on the left one were high/low but on the right side it was either or. We need to do the diode test on the legs per the schematics. Seems like this video makes it easy

Can confirm, that video does make it easy...
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#11 7 months ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Can confirm, that video does make it easy...
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Can we diode test the 7406 in circuit?

#12 7 months ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Can we diode test the 7406 in circuit?

We can.
Some readings will be off, but a short will always show as a short.

Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
Thank you for checking out the PinWiki - http://www.PinWiki.com/

3 weeks later
#13 6 months ago

OK, gonna need some help on this one.

LW3
We found column 5 was not working. didn't noticed row 1 yet. checked the diode and transistors, seemed to be all working. Traced the yellow/green to each lamp and found that Center pop light was wired incorrectly. It was wired to a different row return. I corrected the pop lights and the column works! but then we noticed row 1 was all out.

Traced all lamps on row 1, tested diodes at each lamp. They all tested good. I just tested the two 7407's via diode test, the chips test good. Q72 tests good, D7 test good, Q81 tests the same as Q82. When we ground the tab of Q72 the row lights up.

The two 7406's were replaced and socketed at one point, I could still try to test traces for the socket replacement. Anything else I should check/test?

Screenshot 2024-01-12 at 10.44.47?AM (resized).pngScreenshot 2024-01-12 at 10.44.47?AM (resized).pngScreenshot 2024-01-12 at 11.03.39?AM (resized).pngScreenshot 2024-01-12 at 11.03.39?AM (resized).png
#14 6 months ago

Replace Q72 even though it diode tests good.
Diode test can absolutely flag a failed part.
Diode test can not prove a part is good.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#15 6 months ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Replace Q72 even though it diode tests good.
Diode test can absolutely flag a failed part.
Diode test can not prove a part is good.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Almost was thinking that…

Board is in the game, forgot my alligator clips but have a logic probe, found interesting info.

On the Q81
Cathode low
Gate low
Anode high pulsing

On working Q82
Cathode low
Gate low
Anode low pulsing

Q72
Base low
Collector nothing
Emitter low

Q73
Base low
Collector low pulsing
Emitter low

D7 Low
D8 low
D9 low pulsing
D10 low
D11 low pulsing
D12 low

EDIT:
Was looking at D7 and the pad looked funny, the connection from the d7 to the resistor was not connected. Going to make a stitch to fix that pad.

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