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(Topic ID: 282017)

Lamp Matrix problems Twilight Zone *** SOLVED ***


By Adams_Tales

4 days ago



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  • 10 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by Adams_Tales
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Lamp matrix ghosting TZ (resized).jpg

#1 4 days ago

I have a problem with the lamp matrix on my newly restored TZ. Since I bought the machine there has been minor ghosting issues on the inserts; "the Camera" and "Clock Millions". After I put playfield back in ad assembled things and turned on the machine, there has been some sewere ghosting problems, both in attract mode, in game and on test mode, single lamp test. I have been reading different posts here and elsewhere, tested a lot, but problem still there. I'm stuck

As illustrated on attached illustration, when I test a lamp from row #2 also the lamp in row #6 lights up, almost as bright. When I test #7 also the lamp in row #6 lights up. Thats goes for all collumns. So a clear pattern here.

What I have done
1) I have connected red wire from one column to another, which moved the issue to corresponding lamps in that column (I haven't done so with yellow wire though - maybe I ought to?)
2) I have tested continuity tested between transisters to spot a potentil short. there was none.
3) I have measured transistors - all of them measured in the right ranges
I guess that rules out a board problem??

4) I have measured all diodes connected to lamps, also on the lamp boards
5) I inspected all diodes on lamp sockets to check for obvious shorts - none

I have also read this recommended link about lamp matrix problems (but it seems only to give a description of shorts between columns caused by a broken diode - not between rows): https://homepinballrepair.com/pinball-lamp-matrix-theory-and-troubleshooting/

The game was fitted with inexpensive LED's when I got it. I will give it a try swapping to incandescent bulbs. I have read it could be an issue.

But apart from that I feel stranded. I am much more into mechanics tha electric problems. So any help will be deeply appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Thomas

Lamp matrix ghosting TZ (resized).jpg

#2 4 days ago
Quoted from Adams_Tales:

The game was fitted with inexpensive LED's when I got it.

Install incandescent bulbs or non-ghosting LEDs.

#3 4 days ago

If not isn’t the LED’s, it might be a bad TIP 107 transistor on the lower right part of your driver board. These drive the lamp matrix . I see these get weak, or in some cases completely short out. Change the Tip107 on that row and see if it gets better

#4 3 days ago

Update

I changed all bulbs for incandescent except popbumpers, startbutton and Buy in button. apparently all is good, but by second look the culprits still glowing slightly though not disturbing like before. But problem is still there. pinballmaniac40 could those 5 bulbs cause that same pattern of ghosting (I would guess no)??

athens95 even though i didn't measure any shorts on transistors and the values passed the right measurements when measuring the legs, could it still be weak, causing those problems? And thus worth giving a try replacing?

Please bare with my rookie questions - and thank you both for replying.

Thomas

#5 3 days ago

If I were you I would first try to swap the game Rom with a Rom that had the non ghosting patch applied.

The absolute best solutions, although not cheap at all, is to add both a GI OCD and LED OCD to completely eliminate LED issues, including ghosting and GI dimming flicker.

https://github.com/Pwedge/wpclp For the ROM patcher

#6 3 days ago

I never needed any OCD boards. That is just one's preference. .

#7 3 days ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I never needed any OCD boards. That is just one's preference. .

No, it is not a preference.. LEDs do not act like typical light bulbs. The way you dim an LED totally differs on how they dimmed bulbs, which creates flicker. If you don't mind the flicker, that's your preference, but it is not how LEDs should be driven.

Whether you like OCD or not, doesn't change the fact that once it is installed LEDs will be properly driven by changing how LEDs should be powered.

Just look at this video.. This isn't a preference, this is the result of properly driving LEDs.

The first thing to do, update game code to stop ghosting. Williams themselves fixed the code on later games and It was back ported to earlier games.

To fix general illumination dimming, you NEED a GI OCD. If your game also dims playfield lamps, then you need LED OCD to get the proper effect, no game code will suddenly dim LEDs.

#8 3 days ago
Quoted from Roamin:

No, it is not a preference.. LEDs do not act like typical light bulbs

It is a preference. I use Comet non-ghosting LEDs in the inserts and they work for me as the LEDs are either off or on. I use regular Comet LEDs in the GI and turn off the GI dimming in the adjustment menu. Works for me and many others.

I just choose not to put a magnifying glass to every aspect of every game. What's next, you are going to tell me what games to buy?

#9 3 days ago
Quoted from Adams_Tales:

I changed all bulbs for incandescent except popbumpers, startbutton and Buy in button. apparently all is good, but by second look the culprits still glowing slightly though not disturbing like before. But problem is still there. pinballmaniac40 could those 5 bulbs cause that same pattern of ghosting (I would guess no)??

Since you can still see some glowing with regular bulbs, this does not sound normal. Can you go into the single lamp test and see if those are still ghosting when you page through each bulb?

Can you describe how and which transistors you tested?

Quoted from athens95:

If not isn’t the LED’s, it might be a bad TIP 107 transistor on the lower right part of your driver board. These drive the lamp matrix . I see these get weak, or in some cases completely short out. Change the Tip107 on that row and see if it gets better

I lean the same as athens95 mentions.

#10 1 day ago

*** UPDATE - SOLVED ***

Thank you roamin athens95 and pinballmaniac40 for your contributions.

I just performed more testing, which made me find the culprit - lamp #85 Slot machine. Here is what I did:

1) First of all I made at test securing 100% that it was not board related, ruling aout any component. I made a single lamp I could attach directly to the driver board, bypassing the wire harness.
2) I then did the single lamp test again. I found that the lamps in row 2 and 7 no longer made row 6 ghost/flicker. Ex I tested lamp #12 and then (still testing lamp #12) moved my wires to pins on driverboard for lamp # 16. there was no longer ghosting, ruling out a board problem.
3) Knowing it wasn't board related, I tested the rows individually by deattaching J133 followed by making connection one row at a time.
4) During this I learned that lamp # 85 was lit way more than i was supposed to be, amking it a candidate for thorough inspection.
5) The socket on # 85 was bent slightly making contact to adjacent ball guide. I bent it back and isolated it with some duck tape and also added a diode on that socket.

And now the ghosting has disapeared.

/Thomas

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