(Topic ID: 249204)

Laguna Beach - too many balls

By KYBingo

4 years ago


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#4 4 years ago
Quoted from KYBingo:

When I start the machine, the ball lifter works; however, it lifts multiple balls. It lifts two and tries to lift a third but there is no room in the alley and it stops. If these ball are put into play, no other balls are lifted. I have cleaned and checked the switch under the where the balls rest before being shot. I have checked the switch in the gate at the top of the alley. I have checked the switches under the ramp (balls 1-8) and the switch under the lifter where the balls rest before being lifted.

Check the last trough switch (#8). It has a direct feed to the lifter motor on game start and might be arcing or stuck closed.

#9 4 years ago

There is a motor switch (the one closest to the shutter) that sounds like it is fouled or not making properly. It should make until the cam follower drops into the dwell on that cam.

That is, if the shutter is moving at all. If it is not, perhaps the ball guide on the bottom of the playfield is getting caught on the edge of the ball return board?

Congratulations on finding that problem. Weird add-ons are always interesting to find, and trying to put yourself in the mindset of the creator can be maddening, but I like solving a puzzle like that.

#13 4 years ago

Bally stopped adding knock off switches to the games around the end of '53. Laguna Beach was much later, so there would not be a factory knock off switch.

Your symptoms make it sound like the timer unit is not stepping. It should step 1 time as the initial ball is lifted to the playfield, which happens when switch 2A on the lifter motor assembly makes. As the first ball leaves the playfield, the relay closes for Lifter Start, then a ball should lift. When it does, it will step the timer again.

If the timer doesn't make the initial two steps, then balls will not be captured on the playfield, and the game won't operate properly.

#15 4 years ago

The timer unit advances one step every time a ball is lifted.

#20 4 years ago

How many balls are in the trough when you turn it on? Is the anti-cheat relay engaged?

#22 4 years ago

Gotcha, my comment was geared towards figuring out why five balls weren't immediately lifted. Asked and answered.

So, the circuit for the timer step up is relatively simple (for the first few steps).

It requires:
Lifter cam 2A (you've already checked, but listing here for completeness)
The timer unit being on a compatible rivet (0 would be compatible)
And control unit 14B moving.

Since you've checked the first two, time to check 14B. Verify switch stack in your manual. Remember to count switch stacks from left (motor side) to right, just as they are in the manual. When in doubt, double-check the picture in the manual.

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from KYBingo:

I need to be told about...and thelocation of the anti-cheat relay.

Oh, also, the anti-cheat relay is in a bank of four or five relays mounted vertically on the right hand side of the head when looking in the back door.

#27 4 years ago

That would come down to trough switch issue. If I had to guess I'd say #1.

#29 4 years ago

Trough switch #1 is not attached to the trough, but mounted underneath the lifter assembly. Won't hurt to check the other switches, but something to make note of!

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from KYBingo:

After simulating the lifted ball into play on the play field another ball ISN'T lifted and the shuttle does not close. Because I am a tinker, I discovered that if I release the "anti-cheat" relay, the machine tilts and the shuttle closes!!!

The anti-cheat is what I like to call a soft tilt. It doesn't throw the tilt relay, but it can be the canary in the coal mine about problems with your 50V. It sounds like that is all working as expected.

Regarding the manual ball lift button... in most games there are two switches - one NC and one NO behind this button. I am not certain on Laguna, but can you verify if you have two switches physically present behind there?

I would suggest removing the modification once you verify that they did not physically move part of the game to the bottom... or else intentionally misadjust it closed and see if the behavior changes. Pardon if you've already tried that - busy day and just trying to help!

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

also to correct post #29, trough switch #1 is on the ball trough. The switch under the lifter that a ball operates via pushing down the pin is called the "ball lifter sw" on the schematic. The trough switch numbering doesn't really make sense ... see:

Ah, the problems of going off of (shaky) memory. Thanks baldtwit !

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