(Topic ID: 249204)

Laguna Beach - too many balls

By KYBingo

4 years ago


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#35 4 years ago
Quoted from KYBingo:

I did check the 14B on the control unit. Cleaned and it appears open. This raised the question: When is the machine like the schematic?

you're screwed. This switch needs to be closed when the replay cams underneath it are locked. If this switch is open, the timer unit won't step up ... which means the shutter won't close and you're endlessly shooting a ball that drops thru the playfield.

for the CU switches on the schem, "normally" is when the cams/wipers are locked. 'course, there's a couple cams that are always turning on the CU and mixer shafts, so those switches are constantly toggling. Sometimes it's easier to just look at the assembly and verify the switch changes state when the cams turn, the relay powers, or whatever moves the switches moves them. If you suspect a switch that looks closed isn't, move it more, jumper it or get out the voltmeter.

the timer unit is almost always one of the steppers on the bottom of the back door. Usually it's the middle unit (just right of the reflex unit) ... which it is on laguna. JKnPA has the right idea in post #6, but he didn't notice the pic is the score units in the middle of the door instead of the stuff along the bottom.

unfortunately, the laguna pics on bingo.cdyn.com are poor ... too low a resolution and don't have images of the entire back door or inside head to made drawing arrows easier.

anyway, get the timer unit stepping correctly first:
1] fix 14B so it's closed
2] if raising a ball or manually closing ball lift 2A switch does not step the timer unit for the first 3 steps, verify the timer unit is resetting properly. Check the wipers look like as shown in the manual diagram at reset.
3] grab a voltmeter and put probes on the 2A switch blades. If you don't see 50VAC, you've got a problem.

-------------------------------- ignore the below unless you want to be confused about ball lifting ---------------------------------------

the manual lift button and trough 8 aren't related to each other, and your sequence in post #12 is all correct behavior.

on laguna, the manual lift button has two switches:

1] a NO bypass for the ball lifter pin switch at the bottom of the lifter. If the pin switch is not working, the manual button will replace it's function
2] a NC switch that can unpower the lifter start relay when the manual lift button is pressed. This deals with a flaky ball gate switch - the switch at the top of the runway that opens when the ball enters the top arch.

when the pin switch and ball gate switch are working right, the manual lift button won't do anything. The only thing you can use it for is shooting a ball partway up the runway - enough to get it off the runway switch rollover wire - and push the manual lift button to raise another ball (if the other circuitry allows it).

ball trough switch #8 serves one function only - when the game is reset and therefore the timer unit is reset, balls cannot raise until all 8 balls are in the trough. The goal is really to prevent the shutter from closing until all 8 balls started in the trough. On a couple of the early games, you can reset the machine, use the manual lift button to get 3 balls in the runway, then reset the game and cycle multiple times for scores/features. When you shoot all the balls in the runway, the game thinks you only shot 1 ... so you get extra balls for just the cost of the original coin/credit to load up the runway.

the key thing is balls must raise to step up the timer unit, and if the timer unit does not properly reset or does not step to the first step when the first ball is lifted, you're basically screwed. The shutter only closes when the timer unit steps to the second step.

the trough switches on the schematic are drawn in the state when no ball is on the rollover.

wrt the added button on the bottom:
- if they wired that button in parallel to trough switch #8, then they were working around a switch issue on the timer unit or EB trip #2 or a plug connection problem.
- if the added button has one wire going to wire 38-3 on trough 8, and the other wire goes elsewhere, it sounds like someone added an extra button to the bottom of the game that turned on the ball lift motor....basically let them get extra balls without the pain of playing for them. Why they connected to trough 8 instead of going all the way to the lift motor who knows ...it's the same wire in both spots.

also to correct post #29, trough switch #1 is on the ball trough. The switch under the lifter that a ball operates via pushing down the pin is called the "ball lifter sw" on the schematic. The trough switch numbering doesn't really make sense ... see:
https://bingo.cdyn.com/techno/howtheywork/ball_lift/

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