(Topic ID: 249204)

Laguna Beach - too many balls


By KYBingo

11 days ago



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  • 31 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 14 hours ago by okorange
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#1 11 days ago

I have been working to resolve this problem for a while and ... *%& ... I haven't gotten it fixed yet.

When I start the machine, the ball lifter works; however, it lifts multiple balls. It lifts two and tries to lift a third but there is no room in the alley and it stops. If these ball are put into play, no other balls are lifted. I have cleaned and checked the switch under the where the balls rest before being shot. I have checked the switch in the gate at the top of the alley. I have checked the switches under the ramp (balls 1-8) and the switch under the lifter where the balls rest before being lifted.

Here is the clue that has had me scratching my head: If I take three balls out, it will lift one ball. Then if I drop a ball into the ball re-shoot hole, it will lift one ball. Drop another..and it lifts another. Drop two and it will lift two.

I know that there are a dozen jokes about balls in this somewhere.

I need some suggestions to get this game playable again. Thank you.

#2 11 days ago

I would check everything in the 'Ball lifter motor' circuits.
1. Manual lift button...... closed ?
2. Timer stepper unit..... verify it moves smoothly by manually stepping/ reseting it.
@ should reset to Zero position , then step up one rivet ( position 1).
3. Extra Ball unit........... same as above.
ScreenHunter_165 Aug. 11 18.21 (resized).jpg

#3 11 days ago

Frank, I had a problem similar to yours
In my case all the balls would lift out.
For some reason when I lifted up my playfield and then
put it back down in place this started to happen.
I moved my playfield back and forth and got it back inplace
(I guess) to the position where every thing was good.
Terry K

#4 11 days ago
Quoted from KYBingo:

When I start the machine, the ball lifter works; however, it lifts multiple balls. It lifts two and tries to lift a third but there is no room in the alley and it stops. If these ball are put into play, no other balls are lifted. I have cleaned and checked the switch under the where the balls rest before being shot. I have checked the switch in the gate at the top of the alley. I have checked the switches under the ramp (balls 1-8) and the switch under the lifter where the balls rest before being lifted.

Check the last trough switch (#8). It has a direct feed to the lifter motor on game start and might be arcing or stuck closed.

#5 11 days ago

Because this is my first machine, sometimes I need to be lead to the solution. Or in this case, to the Timer stepper unit.

Location please?

#6 10 days ago

One of these units in the picture. There should be a label near the unit to identify it.
Verify the unit moves freely when you Step & Reset it manually.
*** I mentioned this in a previous Post...

ScreenHunter_166 Aug. 12 09.30 (resized).jpg
#7 10 days ago

Thanks... I'm headed to the game room to see if I can figure this out.

#8 10 days ago

Okay...here is what I found.

The manual lift button was closed...but... there has always been this extra button on the bottom of the cabinet on the opposite side from the on/off switch. I thought that one day I would understand what it was for. That day has come. I guess that at some point there was a short of something and someone added this push button and wired it to the #8 trough switch. It acted as a manual lift button. The actual manual button does nothing. In my investigation I discovered that the wires from that switch were arching at the switch making like there was someone leaning on the manual button. Before locating this arching switch, the lifter would lift five balls.

The way I discovered this was by removing all the balls and replacing them with a strip of wood engaging all the trough switches. Then reaching into the lift chamber and pressing the switch (like there was a ball ready to be lifted) the lifter lifted and lifted and lifted. A shorter piece of wood that didn't open the #8 trough switch, again imitating a ball ready to lift, nothing happened. However, if while doing this and then pressing the #8 trough switch, the lifter lifted.

Does that make sense?

I also did check the Timer stepper unit to verify it moved smoothly by manually stepping/ resetting it.

Now the balls just drop through the playfield because the tray that moves to prevent the balls from dropping through...doesn't. I have checked the fuses. It isn't that it moves but not far enough..it doesn't move. With the playfield lifted, I can move this. It doesn't seem to be jammed.

As Rosanna Danna said, "If it isn't one thing. it is something else."

#9 10 days ago

There is a motor switch (the one closest to the shutter) that sounds like it is fouled or not making properly. It should make until the cam follower drops into the dwell on that cam.

That is, if the shutter is moving at all. If it is not, perhaps the ball guide on the bottom of the playfield is getting caught on the edge of the ball return board?

Congratulations on finding that problem. Weird add-ons are always interesting to find, and trying to put yourself in the mindset of the creator can be maddening, but I like solving a puzzle like that.

#10 10 days ago

Tomorrow I will look into it again. Thanks for heading me in the right direction. I don't think it was getting caught. I had the ball return board out while chasing the ball lifter puzzle. I will check the motor switch.

Correct me if I am wrong. The shutter moves after the first ball enters the play field. Not before. Not when the machine cycles after a coin is drop and the game begins. A ball has to enter the play field.

#11 10 days ago

Bally Bingos also had a 'knock-off' switch under the cabinet so the store owner could reset the
Replay Counter to payoff Winners when the player wanted to 'Cash out'.
Are you sure the switch in question is not a 'Knock-off' switch.
The manual Ball Lift button has a purpose.

#12 9 days ago

"I get by with a little help from my friends" - Joe Cocker

Up from the play room with this report:

My Bally Bingo does not have a "knock off" switch. Originally, I thought this ADDED switch might have been that. However, I never had a chance to test it. Now I know that it is wired to the switch for the #8 ball in the trough and acts as a manual ball lift switch. I am thinking about removing it and seeing it I can get the REAL manual ball lift switch to work.

Here is where I am with the ball lifting and no shutter (I will try to use correct terminology). I tried to follow a playing sequence to identify where the failure is happening:
1. I turn the machine on with the #8 ball not in the trough and the shutter closed.
2. I drop a coin and the the shutter opens and the #8 ball is returned to the trough. Ball one is lifted.
3. I trip the hair on the switch at the bottom of the alley and the Lifter Starter Relay clicks energized).
4. I release the hair switch at the bottom of the alley and trip the switch at the top of the alley and the Lifter Start Relay releases.
5. The shutter does not close; however, if I pull slightly on the arm on the shutter and begin the motion, the shutter will close.
6. I open a switch in a ball hole on the play field and the light lights on the card.
7. No next ball is lifted.

If I open the #8 ball switch in the trough, the next ball lifts. Same as if I pressed the ADDED switch. It's the manual mode.
Again, I checked all the fuses. I also inspected all the switches that I think are involve to insure that wires leading to them are not arcing or shorted together.

Your wise counsel is appreciated.

#13 9 days ago

Bally stopped adding knock off switches to the games around the end of '53. Laguna Beach was much later, so there would not be a factory knock off switch.

Your symptoms make it sound like the timer unit is not stepping. It should step 1 time as the initial ball is lifted to the playfield, which happens when switch 2A on the lifter motor assembly makes. As the first ball leaves the playfield, the relay closes for Lifter Start, then a ball should lift. When it does, it will step the timer again.

If the timer doesn't make the initial two steps, then balls will not be captured on the playfield, and the game won't operate properly.

#14 9 days ago

I will be looking at the timer unit on my next visit to the game room. I have the back of the game open and I have checked to make sure that it's steps and releases freely. As I start the game, before I drop a coin, the timer unit should have already advanced one step(?). Once the ball is in play and in a hole, the timer should have advanced again(?).

Do I have that right?

#15 9 days ago

The timer unit advances one step every time a ball is lifted.

#16 9 days ago

Good morning from the game room.

I have the manual out and open to the timer unit. I have checked that the unit. When the game is turned on and a coin is dropped, the unit has advanced one rivet. If I cause the machine to lift a second ball - after simulating that the first was put into play - the timer unit does not advance.

#17 9 days ago

I have tried listing additional balls but the timer unit does not advance

#18 8 days ago

Check switch 2A on your lifter motor cam.

#19 8 days ago

I have cleaned switch number two on the lifter motor cam. According to the schematic it should be normally open. It is. My thought is when the machine is turned on I should be able to close that switch and have the timer unit advance. With the machine on if I close the switch the timer unit does not advance.

#20 8 days ago

How many balls are in the trough when you turn it on? Is the anti-cheat relay engaged?

#21 8 days ago

When I turn the machine on, there are 7 balls in the trough. After a coin drop, i place the 8th ballin the trough. This is how i prevent 5 balls being lifted when i turn the machine on.

I need to be told about...and thelocation of the anti-cheat relay.

I am labeling things as I learn their physical location. I've learned to find things on the schematic and in the manual. Sometime I feel like a nut, sometime I don't.

#22 8 days ago

Gotcha, my comment was geared towards figuring out why five balls weren't immediately lifted. Asked and answered.

So, the circuit for the timer step up is relatively simple (for the first few steps).

It requires:
Lifter cam 2A (you've already checked, but listing here for completeness)
The timer unit being on a compatible rivet (0 would be compatible)
And control unit 14B moving.

Since you've checked the first two, time to check 14B. Verify switch stack in your manual. Remember to count switch stacks from left (motor side) to right, just as they are in the manual. When in doubt, double-check the picture in the manual.

#23 8 days ago

I am labeling things as I learn their physical location. I've learned to find things on the schematic and in the manual. Sometime I feel like a nut, sometime I don't.
*************************************************************************
You have to have a 'Good sense of humor' when you work on these Bingos.
A large bottle of aspirin also helps!
We are lucky to have nick here helping us.......all the others must be on Vacation still.

#24 8 days ago
Quoted from KYBingo:

I need to be told about...and thelocation of the anti-cheat relay.

Oh, also, the anti-cheat relay is in a bank of four or five relays mounted vertically on the right hand side of the head when looking in the back door.

#25 8 days ago

Tomorrow morning I'm going to check 14B on the control unit again. I looked at it today after noticing it was in the circuit. As I remember, it was closed while the schematic said it should be open. The cam in the control unit was just shot of the lobe that would have opened switch 14B.

I will also try to identify the anti-cheat relay.

#26 4 days ago

Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends...

I took a day off (wedding anniversary) and took a deep breath before ramping up the enthusiasm.

I did check the 14B on the control unit. Cleaned and it appears open. This raised the question: When is the machine like the schematic?

I also check the "anti-cheat" to make sure it was engaged...guess what? ..it wasn't. So I gave it a push and it engaged. I returned to the shooters stance and turned the machine off and on again (I.T. folks suggest that first LOL) . Reached in a simulated a coin drop and the machine went wild!! Cycling, cycling, cycling. Walked around to watch it happen through the open back door. WOW everything setting and resetting. Solenoids clicking and switches switching. I watch in amazement for a sort time before walking around the front to see the shuttle shuttling - open and close and open and closed. Watched the game counter count one and none, one and none. It really was better than anything at the State Fair.

After I calmed down, I thought, "Why is this happening?"

With the playfield up I could see the back of the coin mechanism. The wire that the coin (or my big fingers) trips was caught down. Once released, the machine landed and came to a rest in the start play position. One ball up.

After simulating the ball lifted, shot, and into a numbered location in the playfield, I am back to the "when and why won't the machine lift a second ball"?

#27 4 days ago

That would come down to trough switch issue. If I had to guess I'd say #1.

#28 4 days ago

Today the trough comes out.

#29 4 days ago

Trough switch #1 is not attached to the trough, but mounted underneath the lifter assembly. Won't hurt to check the other switches, but something to make note of!

#30 3 days ago
Quoted from KYBingo:

Today the trough comes out.

That will be Fun..........
There are only a few circuits for ball lifting; I would try to isolate the problem first before doing that.
****** Edit...... I would wire in that manual Ball Lift switch first, if I was T/S this, but that's me.
Just my thoughts.
ScreenHunter_171 Aug. 20 10.33 (resized).jpg

#31 14 hours ago

I have had issues with switch 2 on the ball lift that caused the problem you are describing. Have you tried jumping 43-2 to 27-2 on the lifter? Just bypass the switch with clips and see if it works. It may not be making properly even though visually it appears to be.

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