(Topic ID: 308619)

Laguna Beach magic screen coil

By plumbertim1

2 years ago


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    #1 2 years ago

    I have a Bally Laguna beach magic screen feature unit issue. The step-up coil is overheating. The first one caught on fire and I replaced it and now it is getting very hot and smoking. It is a 25-GG-7 coil. Any ideas what is causing this?

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    #2 2 years ago

    Check your CU cam #5D. This switch should be normally open. If it is closed there will be 50 volt on the step up coil. See diagram F34.
    There could be another possibility. Check Mixer & Spotting 16 pulse cam #1A. This switch should be really open and close.

    #3 2 years ago

    Thanks for the info, but I'm a novice (at best). All I have is the Laguna Beach operating and parts catalog. Trying to find a schematic.
    In the mean time I can check the power to the coil for power, should I assume 50 volts is good or bad?
    Tim

    #4 2 years ago
    Quoted from plumbertim1:

    Thanks for the info, but I'm a novice (at best). All I have is the Laguna Beach operating and parts catalog. Trying to find a schematic.
    In the mean time I can check the power to the coil for power, should I assume 50 volts is good or bad?
    Tim

    The operating manual Is better for a novice to find the Cu cam “5D switch as will show a picture of exactly where it is. Also the mixer switch that bingobeast pointed you to.

    Good luck

    #5 2 years ago

    Here's a link to the schematic. Plus there is alot of good reading here too.

    Look down the right side of the page (Resources)

    https://bingo.cdyn.com/machines/bally/laguna_beach/

    #6 2 years ago

    If you're new in the world of Bally Bingo, the best advice I can give you is to read the stuff Phil Hooper wrote about it. On his site you can find all manuals and schematics and the explanation how to read them. Just as smohr wrote

    #7 2 years ago

    Thanks guys, this information helps a lot. I'll let you know how it shakes out.
    Tim

    #8 2 years ago

    if you can figure out what the guy is talking about, see this:

    http://wiki.cdyn.com/wiki/index.php/Magic_Screen_Feature_Unit_Burnt_Coil

    since very few people can make sense of it ... including the guy who wrote it ... the short answer is your reflex unit wipers are likely out of range and causing a short.

    post a pic of your reflex unit wipers ... need to see where the 6 finger span is wrt the wiring on the disc edge.

    #9 2 years ago

    Great information Baldtwit, now if I can find what you are talking about. Attached is the picture of what I have. Is that the right one? I did check the switch that BingoBeast suggested (5D), it was open.
    The guy that wrote that fix has to be a bingo savant-like dude!
    Learning this part of bingos is going to be a big curve, but so far I like it.

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    #10 2 years ago

    Holy smokes look at them wipers - so many! I hear them asking for some PBR grease. I wonder what went wrong in the past to add those jumper wires...

    #11 2 years ago
    Quoted from Seamlesswall:

    I wonder what went wrong in the past to add those jumper wires...

    jumper wires? The added wires on the main harness in the background? Those could be anything - need to see where they go.

    the wires on the wiper fingers go thru the coil spring and attach to solder lugs. A good test is to grab each one and give it a tug. If it pulls off the finger, it was due for a resolder anyway.

    if using something like pbr grease, a really thin smear is good enough. If you can tell it's there, there's probably too much

    pic needed is the reflex unit ... bottom left one on back door. The bottom of the trip bank will block the view of the wipers a bit, but do the best ya can.

    #12 2 years ago

    The wires that were added was before my time. I did check for loose wires, so far its good. You are right, it is hard to see. I took it loose for the picture.
    How does it look?

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    #13 2 years ago

    ok, that's bad.

    don't know if the reflex unit is reset, but the wipers are probably on backwards. Remove the center screw, pull off the wipers, spin 180 degrees and put them back on.

    when the reflex unit is reset (see step 1 of https://bingo.cdyn.com/techno/howto/reflex_wipers/), the wipers on the inner and middle rings should be on the end rivets of the 3 rivet arcs.

    the entire writeup at the above link applies to your game, so the pic in step 6 is where the wipers should be at reset. Diagram below.

    the wipers should never be able to reach where they are now. If when manually spinning the reset ratchet the wipers don't stop, a pin is broken inside the unit. You can either fix the pin or disable the reflex unit stepping after setting the wipers in a safe place ... usually the normal reset position so the game is as liberal as possible.

    btw, in this case, it's not the 6 finger span causing the problem, it's the wipers with the sharpie marks. The short circuit is caused by the 10:00 one resting on the wiper feed (the wiper poking up from the contact plate).

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    #14 2 years ago

    Phil, I first manually reset the reflex unit. Now it looks like the diagram shows. After seeing the sharpie marks there is no telling what is wrong with it. I checked the wires for the coil and they are still showing 50v, should it be? Where should I go from here?

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    #15 2 years ago

    So it is not the Reflex Unit.
    Try my suggestion now.
    Find wire 45-6 on the left side of the Spotting Disc. In the diagram is it on position F34 and in the manual you can find it on page 162.
    May be it is not in the correct groove or does it contact another wire.
    Please disconnect it and check if there is still 50 volt on the step up coil.

    #16 2 years ago

    here's a pic of part of what bingobeast is saying ... make sure the slip ring wipers are in the right grooves.

    in this case, it's easy ... one per groove.
    int-laguna_beach-spotting_wipers2 (resized).jpgint-laguna_beach-spotting_wipers2 (resized).jpg

    there's many wires on the spotting disc edge which if shorted to adjacent wires could cause the problem, so do a quick visual check.

    it's not that, verify the 50V disappears when if you push down the armature plate on the yellow score stop relay.

    if it does, stick a piece of paper between the contacts on the top switch of the yellow score stop relay. That'll keep the 50V off the MSFU coil. Leave a meter probe on the fat orange wire 70 and move other probe to wire 93-12 on the MSFU disk (see manual diagram). If you have the 50V there, you can take your time sticking paper between switch contacts and under wiper fingers to figure out where it's coming from.

    you familiar with reading the schematic?

    your reflex unit is not resetting to the most liberal position ... but that isn't causing the problem and you can fix that later.

    #17 2 years ago

    I did find a wire off on the spotting disc (picture) I put it back and now the coil doesn't have continuous power. I tried playing the machine and everything works except it doesn't ring up games and OK doesn't work.
    I couldn't find the 45-6 wire on the diagram and schematic doesn't help me. I'm not good at this at all but I am trying.
    I attached pictures of the spotting disc and it looks like a mess at the top of the small board. Ideas?

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    #18 2 years ago

    45-6 is attached to a slip ring wiper and is feeding spotting wiper D. It's in the chart at the top/right corner of the diagram. Not obvious, right

    unfortunately, a wire off the disc wouldn't hurt unless it was shorting to something.

    next test is to turn the spotting wipers counter-clockwise with your finger and see if any position of the wipers causes the MSFU step-up coil to stick on. The ratchet will make click noises ask you turn the wipers.

    when turning wipers backwards, watch and make sure the tips of the wiper fingers don't snag rivet edges. If they snag and you keep pushing, you'll bend the wiper finger and you'll probably have to remove the wipers to straighten it back out.

    one problem is when you cycle the game, it's possible for the circuit to be disconnected by other things ... then you wind up with a problem that only happens when a circuit is active, and that can be random.

    if spinning the spotting wipers backwards doesn't make the MSFU coil power, you're going to need to make sure some of the circuit is closed. Put one meter probe on wire 70 and the other on wire 91-13 on the MSFU. Cycle game until you see 50V, then turn the spotting wipers backwards.

    if you want to see bad unedited video, look at https://bingo.cdyn.com/video/spotting_wipers.m4v. You can see the 16 pulse cam switches toggling in the lower right corner of the video.

    back to bingobeast post #2 ... check 16 pulse cam switch 1A to make sure it opens. You can do that with the power off and spin the mixer motor fan blade with your finger which watching the switch.

    if you can get the coil sticking on, and it's not 1A, hopefully you can hear when the coil is on ... it often buzzes. If you turn off the game, you can manually hold down the anti-cheat relay coil armature when turning it back on (use a power strip with a switch). With the anti-cheat active at power on, the game keeps doing whatever it was doing when you turned it off.

    per the diagram on manual page 165, 1A is the switch at the "bottom" of the stack. Pic below of where the 16 pulse cams are.

    if not sure, try taking a video of the switches when the motor is running ... camera looking at the sides of the stacks so you can see the contacts, and it can help to hold a piece of paper between the two stacks to block the stack(s) behind the one you want to watch.

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    #19 2 years ago

    Currently there is no power on the step up coil on the MSFU (I'm not sure how this changed, all I did was reconnect the wire on the spotter that was loose) .
    I went through step one moving the wiper blades backwards. It went well with no hangups. I kept the meter on the coil. At one point the reset coil activated and there was just a blip of power on the setup coil. After that, everything seems ok.
    Step two, I can't find the 91-13 wire on the MSFU. My operating manual is a copy of a copy, plus these old eyes can't see well. I will keep looking and go through the other steps. The machine is here at my office and I have dedicated my whole day to find the problems.
    Everything is running good, screen and OK is moving good. The only issue is that it won't ring up games or run OK. Go figure.
    Thank you for your help, I am trying to learn as I go.

    #20 2 years ago
    Quoted from plumbertim1:

    Currently there is no power on the step up coil on the MSFU (I'm not sure how this changed, all I did was reconnect the wire on the spotter that was loose) .

    you never cycled/reset the game?

    Quoted from plumbertim1:

    At one point the reset coil activated and there was just a blip of power on the setup coil.

    the reset coil on the MSFU? The only time the reset coil should power is when the playfield shutter slides open to dump the balls. The MSFU, score units and red letter unit all reset at the same time. If one coil powers, they all should.

    sounds like you have a short or partial short someplace.

    Quoted from plumbertim1:

    Step two, I can't find the 91-13 wire on the MSFU. My operating manual is a copy of a copy, plus these old eyes can't see well. I will keep looking and go through the other steps.

    grab this:
    https://bingo.cdyn.com/machines/bally/laguna_beach/resources/manual-laguna_beach.pdf

    you can zoom in on the pages.

    91-13 is on the top lugs. It's the 9th one away from the back door wood.

    Quoted from plumbertim1:

    Everything is running good, screen and OK is moving good. The only issue is that it won't ring up games or run OK.

    after you shoot the 4th ball, the before 4th selector lock trip relay should trip. That will enable the R button. Push the R button and the search wipers release and scan for a win.

    are you getting that far?

    #21 2 years ago
    Quoted from baldtwit:

    you never cycled/reset the game?

    I have powered it off them back on. Is there a procedure to cycle/reset?

    the reset coil on the MSFU? The only time the reset coil should power is when the playfield shutter slides open to dump the balls. The MSFU, score units and red letter unit all reset at the same time. If one coil powers, they all should.
    sounds like you have a short or partial short someplace.

    When I was turning the spotting disc it happened once but not since.

    grab this:
    https://bingo.cdyn.com/machines/bally/laguna_beach/resources/manual-laguna_beach.pdf
    you can zoom in on the pages.
    91-13 is on the top lugs. It's the 9th one away from the back door wood.

    I was looking at the wrong page. I found it. It does have power 70 to 91-13.

    after you shoot the 4th ball, the before 4th selector lock trip relay should trip. That will enable the R button. Push the R button and the search wipers release and scan for a win.
    are you getting that far?

    Everything started working except it wouldn't ring up games (it would make the sound its suppose tobut no games would click up).

    Today I was thinking about the spotter disc and it seemed to be out of line. I put it where the drawing shows. Now the game works, everything. I have been playing for over an hour and no issues, no hot coils. The only other thing I did was clean the contacts and put grease on all the disc. (you cant tell there is grease on them, I put a very small amount like you said)

    I did check the pulse cams, took a bit of videoing to see but they are doing just what they should be.

    Think there are gremlins in my machine? They are laying low now I guess.
    Tim

    #22 2 years ago

    A wise man told me the right thing about Bally bingo's:
    "Just play a bingo and they repair themselves."
    I think your Laguna Beach is example of that

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from plumbertim1:

    Today I was thinking about the spotter disc and it seemed to be out of line. I put it where the drawing shows ...

    don't really understand what you mean there since the spotting wipers spin every time the game is cycled (you play coins/credits to try and improve the scores and enable features).

    were the contacts on the spotting wiper fingers bridging rivets when the wipers were locked and you moved the spotting index unit to center the contacts on the rivets?

    if the wipers were bridging rivets, that could create your MSFU issue. Causing a payout problem isn't likely, but as beast said, just playing the game tends to scrub contacts and flaky circuits can work better.

    #24 2 years ago

    I wasnt sure why I moved the spotter to the position in the manual. Figured it couldn't hurt. I had been staring at everything and just noticed they weren't where the book said. The fingers were on the rivits. I lubed them and every wiper I could get to. Must have hit the magic connection somewhere.
    Since it started working I have played a lot. Hopefully I can get it moved to its forever home soon without having any more problems. Still some touch-up painting and changing some bulbs.
    Thank you for your help Phil and Beast! I still have a lot to learn but y'all have taught this rookie a lot.
    Next project is a King Kool unless I can find another bingo. I like the bingos
    Tim

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    #25 2 years ago

    You need a nice set of wood legs
    Big fan of the wood legs, especially with wood side rails.
    Terry K

    #26 2 years ago

    The wood legs do look good, I may try to find some when I get ready to bring it home.

    #27 2 years ago

    if you go with wood, make sure the horizontal reinforcement bolts are in the tops to help prevent splitting.

    they even reinforced the metal legs with additional material welded inside each leg. It's marginally inconvenient to grab the front of the game and pull to slide it away from the wall and have the legs collapse due to the weight of the head

    #28 2 years ago

    Here is a pic of my "Hybrid" Bikini machine
    Also a "Wood" leg info sheet.
    Terry K

    Hy brid complete (resized).JPGHy brid complete (resized).JPGLEG stats (resized).jpgLEG stats (resized).jpg
    #29 2 years ago
    Quoted from Terry1:

    You need a nice set of wood legs
    Big fan of the wood legs, especially with wood side rails.
    Terry K

    Did bingo heads weigh much less that had originally wooden legs. Couldn’t imagine my Can Can bingo machine head not on metal legs. I recently relocated my game and tried to use the harbor freight skates and it crushed the pair on the back legs.

    #30 2 years ago

    I get great action on my machine.
    Very sturdy.
    You can see the device under the back of my machine.
    I just jack up the back and wheel the bingo around,
    just like a wheel barrel

    #31 2 years ago
    Quoted from baldtwit:

    if you go with wood, make sure the horizontal reinforcement bolts are in the tops to help prevent splitting.
    they even reinforced the metal legs with additional material welded inside each leg. It's marginally inconvenient to grab the front of the game and pull to slide it away from the wall and have the legs collapse due to the weight of the head

    The back legs have the reinforcements, without it it wouldn't hold very well. The old machines are very heavy.
    Can you buy the wooden legs or would you have to make them?

    #32 2 years ago
    Quoted from SteveinTexas:

    Did bingo heads weigh much less that had originally wooden legs. Couldn’t imagine my Can Can bingo machine head not on metal legs. I recently relocated my game and tried to use the harbor freight skates and it crushed the pair on the back legs.

    they switched to metal on the first screen game - carnival queen. Whether is was costs, the weight, availability of the wood, the occasional split/collapse problem ... who knows. Even on lighter 6-card games that came after carnival queen, they used metal legs. No point in stocking/using both types.

    the game before carnival queen was beach time. It used wood legs and wasn't a lot lighter than a cq ... 'course, they already knew what was coming and how much the weight was going up on future screen games at that time.

    metal legs is correct for laguna beach, but if you like the wood look better, don't drag the game much on the back legs and have the reinforcing bolts, a piece of the right kind of wood (I think vertical grain/furniture grade maple) is certainly strong enough to support the weight.

    the pacific pinball museum bought some new wood legs a few months ago. I assume they came from pinball resource, but I'd have to ask. Boxes say they were made in china and they may not be correct dimensions for a bingo.

    below is more info on legs if you wanted to make them. Not shown is the bottom of the leg which has a recess cut for the metal leg leveler mounting plate and hole drilled for leveler shaft. Shape of the recess depends on the shape of the plate. There were round and rectangle ones.

    antisplit (resized).jpgantisplit (resized).jpgbingo_legs (resized).pngbingo_legs (resized).png

    #33 2 years ago
    Quoted from baldtwit:

    they switched to metal on the first screen game - carnival queen. Whether is was costs, the weight, availability of the wood, the occasional split/collapse problem ... who knows. Even on lighter 6-card games that came after carnival queen, they used metal legs. No point in stocking/using both types.
    the game before carnival queen was beach time. It used wood legs and wasn't a lot lighter than a cq ... 'course, they already knew what was coming and how much the weight was going up on future screen games at that time.
    metal legs is correct for laguna beach, but if you like the wood look better, don't drag the game much on the back legs and have the reinforcing bolts, a piece of the right kind of wood (I think vertical grain/furniture grade maple) is certainly strong enough to support the weight.
    the pacific pinball museum bought some new wood legs a few months ago. I assume they came from pinball resource, but I'd have to ask. Boxes say they were made in china and they may not be correct dimensions for a bingo.
    below is more info on legs if you wanted to make them. Not shown is the bottom of the leg which has a recess cut for the metal leg leveler mounting plate and hole drilled for leveler shaft. Shape of the recess depends on the shape of the plate. There were round and rectangle ones.
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    Pinball Resource has the anti-split hardware:

    HDW-ANTISPLIT

    Wooden-Leg Anti-Split Post and Screw

    $0.79ea

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