I fixed the 100pt relay stuck issue, but now on to the new problem (thanks for helping me troubleshoot it).

On start up the score reels 0 out and then the card reel adds from 2-5 points before the ball is ejected. After that game play is normal until you hit a 1pt switch. Investigation of the playfield revealed the following - when I fire any 10pt switches everything works fine. Same for 100pt switches. When I fire a 1pt switch the following happens:

1) Score motor activates
2) Bell, 10pt DU wheel and card score increase by 5 (ding, ding, ding, ding, ding)
3) Eject relay activates eject from the Jokers

Cycle will repeat until I fire a 10pt switch again (bumpers or advance roll over work).

Am I looking at the 1pt relay circuit here or somewhere downstream of the 1pt relay?

Funny you should say that. I've been thinking that since the Player Card is scoring the same number, it could be scoring the lit card - advance moves the cards from 1-10, so it could be that it was on 5. I'm going to check this out later.

The 10pt DU coil is firing as many times as there are numbers on the No Match SU. So if there is 5, I get 50pts, if there is 9, I get 90pts. Then it starts over again - i.e. stuck in this loop. I think I narrowed it down to these circuits. No time to test till next week, unfortunately.

1ptRelay (resized).png

Having cleaned many switches on many relays now, I am still stuck. I have traced several circuits that include the 1pt RE, the 10pt RE and the 1st Bumper RE (which stops the cycling) as well as the change relay. I am stumped. I have learned a few more things.

1) The 1pt RE fires and then the cycle of 10pt RE and 1pt Card DU starts. After the first cycle the 1pt RE is stuck on.
2) Hitting the #1 Bumper RE will stop the cycling (I tried this because it looks like it would work if the change RE sw is open that should be closed). This does not stop the 1pt RE from staying energized.
3) On start up the score reels all rest to zero, but then points will score on the card DU matching the number of points for the card showing. Then play is fine until you hit the 1pt RE.

Any suggestions welcome. This has been a difficult issue to deal with and I have not playing the game in weeks now - it was paying fine for the last two months.

Cheers,

LTR

The score reels rest, then the card drum scores as many points as the card showing, then the ball kicks out.

I know where the Eject RE is in the cabinet. It does trigger on start up - can't remember when. Are you asking when during start up the points appear? Before the ball kicks out. I will check this tonight, though.

Rolf,

It seems like the player card score step up is advancing before the outhole kicker serves the ball. Further, the eject saucers appear to fire when they shouldn't. At the beginning of a game. Do not operate in game over mode (seems like they should). They fire continuously when the game is tilted. I think it has something to do with the eject relay. All of this applies to both player 1 and player 2.

Got it. I will check all of these switches tonight and post my results.

This makes sense. The eject-hole should fire until the ball is gone, but there was no ball in the hole and then it must kick a ball out to stop. Makes sense.

Update for Rolf:

First off, I know where Switzerland is located. In fact, last year I visited a friend in Lugano and rode around the lakes (Como and Maggiore) on a Moto Guzzi.

Now, an update to your queries. All of the switches that should be open in the above circuits are indeed open. Here are some photos of the Eject RE and the Tilt RE and the switch on the score motor (6A). All seems OK. They open and close as they should - I think.

What next?

Eject_RE (resized).jpg

Switch_6A_Score_Motor (resized).jpg

Tilt_RE (resized).jpg

On Tilt the eject coils fire then deactivate then fire again until the ball drains and the outhole relay kicks in. This loop is stopped by the ball draining.

Another point or two to notice - or maybe make things more complicated:

1) If I am on Player #1 and the cycling of the 1pt score starts - points, bell and card drum - but the ball drains, and I got to player #2, it continues the cycle on player #2 until the 1st position bumper is activated (just as for player #1).
2) Although the score appears to be registering on the card drum, I just played last night and had 20, ball drained and the dealer score came up 19. I did not get an extra ball. This may be related somehow to the main problem, but I thought I would add that to the mix.

I am open to suggestions. I was about to trace everything back from the 1pt card drum unit since that is firing after the eject sw but before the ball kicks out.

Thanks for you help.

LTR

Blocking either No 1 Relay switch 1D or No 2 Relay 1D stops the Eject Relay from firing during start up.

LTR

Well, that almost sounds like back to the drawing board! I'll check these potential issues. I found something new today, though. I can get the 1pt Card DU to stop scoring during start up by blocking switch 2C on the "A" Player RE. This switch is located at E-8 on the schematic. There must be a switch upstream of this switch that is firing during start up. Not sure if that helps, but I may try to do this for a few more switches until I can figure something out.

Cheers,

LTR

Breakthrough! I tried blocking a few switches in or around circuits I think are involved using a piece of old playing card. I found a switch on the Tilt RE that is typically closed. When I block switch D between the Grey-Blu and Blu-Y contacts, the pin will start up normally and NOT score points on the Card Drum. It will also play normally. Hitting the 1pt switches scores one point, but does not affect the 10pt score reel or the 1pt card drum. The only things NOT working are the two jokers - i.e. they don't acknowledge the ball or eject the ball, but they will light up. Getting closer. This switch energizes the No 1 RE through the 2 Joker Eject switches. Any idea where to look next?

LTR

I've made some progress on the circuit, but I need some input. Blocking Yellow switches will fix the start up and the 1pt scoring issues, but the eject switches won't work. Blocking Pink will fix everything but the 10pt score reel issue and blocking Red will not fix anything.

Eject_Circuit.pdf

Rolf - the switches in yellow are all supposed to be closed. I put a playing card piece between the connections to keep them open - then started up the game. Does that make sense? I only checked the RO switches by eye - that they were open. Have a nice night.

Yes. That does stop the cycling when I hit the 1pt switches on the playfield. Now what? I cleaned these two blades and that did not solve the problems.

Rolf - I am sorry to hear about your health issues and hospital stay - I will say that I value your input, so feel good that you can still help someone like me over the internet!!

OK. Here is my attempt to describe the issues I have at the moment.

First Problem. Starting a new game the following things happen:

1) Start up sequence begins and all score reels zero out
2) The eject coils fire (both)
3) Before the ball gets kicked out the Card DU scores as many points as the card shown on the card advance - (1-10 points depending on the card).
4) The ball kicks out and the game starts.

Second Problem (related to first). When hitting any 1pt score switch on the playfield:

1) The score motor starts and 10pts are awarded for each Card point (1-10) depending on the card advance card showing.
2) The Card DU scores as many points as the card shown on the card advance.
3) The eject coils fire
4) This cycle starts again (until you hit either right or left Jet Bumper).

On the schematic in answer #20 I have indicated some closed switches that I opened by blocking with a playing card. When these are blocked (yellow) the start up sequence is correct and the 1pt scoring scores one point and stops. When they are blocked the eject coil does not work and eject relay does not fire. Other than that, you can play a game.

Does this help explain where I am at right now?

Cheers,

LTR

Rolf - I picture is worth a thousand words, so this video is worth much more, I hope. Here is the actual problem in action.

Try this one....

When lit, you get points on the Card DU - as many as you get for the card showing on the "Advance Card", you also get 100pts
When not lit, you get 100pts.

This is more complicated. I will need to test that.

Excellent! Isn't the internet grand? Have a nice night and take a look at it tomorrow.

Cheers,

LTR

Did David Lynch shoot this video? Very strange for the type of music. Would you be offended if I said it looks better than it sounds?

LTR

Try this one....

Blocking just one of the yellow switches - doesn't matter which one - will stop the start up issue of scoring Card DU points.

Just one switch.

This I will need to test and get back to you this weekend. Thanks!

No.

Finger on the outhole makes no difference.

Here is the No 1 RE during start up.

FYI - if I place a playing card between the G-W and the Blue-Y switch on the Change RE I can cure the start up scoring and the 1pt playfield switch cycling issues. I even tested the eject holes and they work with a ball in place - i.e. they eject the ball after the score motor turns on. What can I do to check this switch or circuit? I seem to have found the issue, but nothing is wrong with the switch.

pasted_image (resized).png

Both! In fact, I used some electrical tape and can play an entire game. I am only having a problem now with "beating the dealer" on player 1. It just doesn't ever work. I can beat the dealer and get a free ball on player 2. I can't find anything else that is going wrong with this tape in place, except maybe the match numbers are not working now.

This is a good thing to try. I have looked at the switch itself and can't find a fault, but maybe the wire is fouling somewhere on the way to the switch!

Good test! I will try this tonight.

And now the exciting climax! Here is the RO switch before and after I bent the tension blade back.

Before_RO (resized).JPG

After_RO (resized).JPG

I would like to get some help with the new problems - not as much of a rush, but I will post a new topic. Thanks for all of your help, Rolf.