(Topic ID: 126449)

LabVIEW Test Rigs - anyone?

By adalogue

8 years ago


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  • 23 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by adalogue
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    #1 8 years ago

    I started preparing a Bally driver board test routine in Signal Express LE (free to download) with a USB digital I/O interface, just to send a digital ramp signal to the driver board to test coil drive channels and also would work on a lamp board. Essentialy what Leon did in hardware, I'm trying to do in software on a PC.

    This got me thinking, what are the barriers to developing full board test rigs in LabVIEW? You can have more than enough digital I/O lines to interface, and open ended processing in LabVIEW. The only barriers I can think of are time to code the routines and cost (a full license of LabVIEW isn't cheap, $1,000 for Basic and you'd probably need some processing/decoding routines added).

    Anyone tried something like this? I searched LabVIEW on the forums and got ZERO hits.

    In theory, we could then distribute the LabVIEW VIs to others in the community and move beyond the days of the big test rigs.

    Interested in thoughts others may have on this.

    #2 8 years ago

    FWIW, LabVIEW Home (hobbyist license) is only $50!

    #3 8 years ago
    Quoted from adalogue:

    The only barriers I can think of are time to code the routines and cost (a full license of LabVIEW isn't cheap, $1,000 for Basic and you'd probably need some processing/decoding routines added).

    I guess you could always D/L the full from Kickass to make sure it will do what we need it to.

    Then once you are certain it's all it's cracked up to be, you could buy a license .

    #4 8 years ago

    Will post here after I have a proof of concept.

    #5 8 years ago

    Are you doing it for fun (yay) or function?

    There is not really any mystery to how the lamp driver and solenoid drivers work. You can stimulate the solenoid decoder with a 4 switch dip bank and some pull up resistors.

    #6 8 years ago

    Both.

    Ideally a full test rig, decode display data, diagnostic button controls, etc. I'm imagining plugging a Sys11 or WPC board into a logic interface and using LabVIEW as a test rig.

    Bally driver board test routine is largely a proof of concept due to simplicity.

    It would be great to have some development partners...

    #7 8 years ago

    Having a complete "test rig" for all the common board types would be a bench tech's dream.

    Not having to keep a bunch of displays around for all the different systems would almost be worth it by itself.

    #8 8 years ago
    Quoted from adalogue:

    Both.
    Ideally a full test rig, decode display data, diagnostic button controls, etc. I'm imagining plugging a Sys11 or WPC board into a logic interface and using LabVIEW as a test rig.
    Bally driver board test routing is largely a proof of concept due to simplicity.

    Awesome. Sounds like a good project.

    #9 8 years ago

    PM sent

    #10 8 years ago

    If you do not have any takers and would like some help I would be willing. My "daytime" job is software development, particularly Automatic Test Equipment and I have used LabView but been a while. We started using LabWindows CVI about 10 years ago.

    Bob

    #11 8 years ago

    I'll be glad to help in any way that I can. PM sent with details.

    #12 8 years ago

    Let me know if y'all need any internal support from NI with this.
    Think I know like half their executive team as former clients or family friends.

    #13 8 years ago

    Excellent, I was hoping this would spark some interest!

    If you want to be involved, please PM me with your contact info (email, etc.).

    We can put together a consortium of sorts, even brainstorming features and not doing development would be helpful.

    I suspect we'll need some sort of prime person that has more development experience that I do. I have done coding (C++, Basic, and Labview), but not individual pieces to bring things together into one package. Bob?

    My thinking was we could break it up into board set. I.e. 1-2 people per set (Stern/Bally, Sys3-7, Sys9-11, WPC, etc.) all following a standard GUI layout for the control panels, then bring them all into 1 VI.

    #14 8 years ago

    I think it would be best to scrub a material list to get an idea of what the final outcome would cost. While NI products are on the low end for test equipment it is on the high end for a hobby. I could see the hardware cost for a Sys 11 CPU/Driver board being $1500+ because of the need for over 100 connections. I know equipment can be reduced with hardware but that costs also.

    Bob

    #15 8 years ago
    Quoted from Big_Bob:

    I think it would be best to scrub a material list to get an idea of what the final outcome would cost. While NI products are on the low end for test equipment it is on the high end for a hobby. I could see the hardware cost for a Sys 11 CPU/Driver board being $1500+ because of the need for over 100 connections. I know equipment can be reduced with hardware but that costs also.

    I agree. I think the hardware side of this will be more complex than the software. For example, developing non-data interfaces (simulating a switch closure, sensing if a solenoid has been fired, etc.). I'm slowly building my own wpc test fixture and while building a setup to fire led's instead of solenoids is relatively simple, it gets more complex when you need to feed that info back to the software.

    #16 8 years ago

    Good point. I started counting up a Sys 11 test rig and came up with a bit under 70 connections excluding display and sound, so it's probably over 100 with everything, like suggested by Bob. Testing things like driver boards would of course be much lower channel count, except non-matrixed lamp driver boards (i.e. Bally).

    I suspect I'd want something that could sink some current and handle above 5V, so I figure combinations of 2 or 3 NI PCI-651x (64 channels each) would do the trick. They retail between $300 and $400 new but can often be had on eBay for half that. So even if 3 cards, that's $500-$600 with used cards. While not cheap, it is attractive to me to have all the rig in software and not have to worry about displays/etc. Just setting up displays (as Vid mentioned earlier) would run you hundreds per board type.

    If one could do it all with logic levels and not need to worry about isolation, the price falls to between $300 and $500 in hardware for 96 channels (i.e. USB-6509, PCI-6509, etc.).

    Also the time component is worth considering. While it would be time consuming to get everything running, once it is running, it can be shared with others. You can't share a hardware test rig with your pinball buddies, unless you want to haul it around town. But you could e-mail a VI (or post it online). They would have to buy some hardware (quantity depending on which tests they wanted to be able to run) and set up the LabVIEW environment ($50), but then theoretically it'd just be a matter of creating their wiring harness and mapping the I/O channels properly in the software.

    #17 8 years ago

    I looked into this a while back to test the Sys 11 MPU but my plan was to use a different piece of test equipment. It performed essentially the same function. My plan was to pull the CPU and the ROM and plug ribbon connectors into the sockets. This would allow the board to be tested easily. I planned to use an automatic probe feature to isolate the fault. I have access to a software simulator that would generate the diagnostic code. This approach would be just for me since the test equipment is very expensive. The end result would identify the failing part almost 100% of the time. Of course, only if the software simulation was written correctly.

    Bob

    #18 8 years ago

    After thinking more about the input from all of you, it may be more reasonable to focus on decoding the various display outputs (7-segment, alpha numeric, and DMD) and displaying those in LabVIEW, and perhaps a few other features like being able to operate the diagnostic buttons and reserve most of the other test functions (switch matrix input, solenoid output, lamp matrix, etc.) to external hardware that is readily available at very reasonable prices (Siegecraft) and use the built in diagnostics to control the tests (display, switch, lamp, solenoid tests, etc.).

    Some other features for certain boards would make sense since they are super straight forward and require a low channel count, such as controlling solenoids on stand alone driver boards (Bally, Williams, etc.).

    #19 8 years ago

    I would be Interested to see how this works out. Not sure I would have the programming experience to help but willing to bounce ideas.

    I built a couple of test kits. One tests all system 11 boards and I also have one that tests all WPC89 boards. They fold up in the case a they are easy to transport.

    image.jpgimage.jpg

    #20 8 years ago

    Cool set up! I'm starting with Bally boards, will post once I have something working.

    #21 8 years ago

    I wonder if Siegecraft would be interested in building an I/O board to handle switches, solenoids, etc. I presume he would need some type of minimum quantity, but it would be worth checking.

    Edit: I just shot Hans a PM and hopefully he'll jump in.

    #22 8 years ago

    I'd be more than happy to look into an I/O board, or other hardware needs, if that's needed in this project. I've always thought about some kind of universal system of that type, just limited in my abilities to do the programming and interfacing with a PC. Usually I calculate based on a 50 piece minimum for most kinds of boards as my break-even point, and I wouldn't see any issue with hitting that number in a project of this type.

    You'd probably need a different I/O board for each board set you're doing, but in all honesty I think that would be the easy part in this project. It's not like you'd be trying to simulate and emulate all the inputs and outputs via hardware like my current tester lineup does. It does help that the Williams systems didn't really change that much from generation to generation. You might be able to handle all Williams generations with a single I/O. Except for displays, of course. A multi-generational, multi-platform, PC interfaced display setup has been my pipe dream for a few years now.

    I wonder if you can use some basic hardware to cut the number of required channels down. After all, your standard 6821 PIA's are really only single byte I/O chips, with two channels per chip. It all depends on the complexity and cost of an I/O board, and how that pans out with pricing in comparison to a higher number of channels.

    But simulating the I/O functions on any pinball board is the easy part, the real trick is diagnosing the address and data bus lines, memory enables, and things like that. Driver boards tend to be fairly easy, it's a non-booting CPU situation that's the hardest to handle.

    Anyway, I'm in if you guys need me, and as time permits.

    #23 8 years ago

    It would be amazing to have you provide some hardware input on this Hans! I suspect primarily LED arrays and push button switches.

    My vision was to have harnesses that used molex connectors on the board headers. I know that makes for lots of wires, but it does provide for an end-to-end test of all components and connections, including headers. Nasty harnesses though, I know.

    I built a GUI test sequence written for a Bally Sol Driver board in LabVIEW last weekend, but still need to write the portion of the routine that outputs the logic values to the board. I'll post some video when it's working to get some feedback.

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