(Topic ID: 217506)

Kruzman restored and cleared creature playfield price?

By mmr61184

5 years ago


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  • 90 posts
  • 27 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by mmr61184
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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    -4
    #42 5 years ago

    I believe in giving credit where credit is due and Kruzman is the best hands down, but there's others out there like myself working to be as good!

    I use SM2K (acrylic & resins) apply 12 heavy coats, then block sand it wet flat as glass. One of the hardest 2-part clear coat systems out there, these clear coats do not dimple or seem to have any imperfections after 1,000's of games on my own Party Zone, and on other playfields I've cleared. Reasonably priced at $400 plus return shipping, here's a link...

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/playfield-clear-coat-service-for-pinball-machines

    #44 5 years ago
    Quoted from Grizlyrig:

    I think your post or advertising in this topic is being done maliciously and is poor taste.
    We are clearly talking about the pricing of a specific playfield that Ron Kruzman worked on.
    Whether or not you do good work or want to compare against someone else this was not where to do it. You can very easily go back to say the Centaur playfield that Ron Kruzman did(plenty of pics on pinside) and make a topic of you VS Kruzman showing lots of pics too please. Looking forward to your topic.
    -Mike

    Dude are you serious...I can post wherever I want there's nothing malicious, I've talked with Kruzman and the Op of this thread many of times about clear coating chill out. Next time maybe don't "think" out loud and especially when you're showing such little class as to try and belittle me dude!

    #46 5 years ago
    Quoted from Grizlyrig:

    Yes I was serious. If you are going to advertise in a topic that has nothing to do with your work I think you would have already setup a vs topic. If others can do all these machine vs machine then why can't I suggest a clearcoater vs clearcoater? I don't feel I'm out of line.
    -Mike

    Dude this is a FREE country I'll gladly chime in and say whatever I'd like to regardless of what you "think" thank you...even if it is a little bit of shameless self promoting. lol

    -1
    #49 5 years ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    Good snapshot of current US misunderstandings of “can do” vs “should do”. Also, let’s not forget Pinside is international

    "Can do" vs "Should Do" that's what people who "Do Nothing" say IMHO. I'm well aware Pinside is global and unlike some people I don't think I'm better than anybody else or vice versa.

    #51 5 years ago
    Quoted from 85vett:

    I honestly think you are doing more harm than good here. With the attitude you've presented so far I know I would never support you with work as I'd be afraid that if anything went wrong you would go all out crazy on me.
    Your post was ill placed but still informative. Had me interested so the marketing worked. Then the replies came. A simple, "you're probably right" would have gone over a thousand times better from your potential business clientele. Heck, even keeping your mouth shut would have been better.
    And by the way. "Can do" vs "should do" is what people with class think about before opening their mouth or take action. Their is a time and place and you missed both the time to bring up your company and the place.

    Well I'm glad to not do business with you, thanks for saving me the trouble! I'm sorry I like replying to all these smug narcissistic self centered pot shots. You want to have a conversation about class...you obviously couldn't.

    #60 5 years ago
    Quoted from mmr61184:

    No, I am the OP what I was trying to do was get an idea on value. A NOS TAF playfield came up for sale recently and I was contemplating on selling this to fund that. I was trying to get an approx value. I never had before pics since it wasn’t my playfield I know Ron doesn’t really take blown out playfields to restore so it was in pretty good shape before to the best of my knowledge. Game was never touched it’s still in the original wood crate that Ron sent it in stored under a bed. It is a thing of beauty I can say that. If you know Ron you know that nothing less than perfection leaves his shop.

    I think you got a solid $1,600 pf there man. I recently sold a NOS TAF cleared by HSA on ebay for $1,600, and simultaneously there was another NOS TAF cleared by Kruzman up there for $2K that sold. And personally I think Creature is a way better game ascetically.

    PS sorry MMR for derailing your price quest mon, this comment is what I was originally going to segue to!

    #62 5 years ago
    Quoted from Tommy-dog:

    That is why I asked about pictures. I do know Ron and he is somewhat local to me but some of his work is hit or miss on the touch-up stuff.

    It would be nice to see some pics, how can anybody get tired of seeing cleared playfields! lol

    #65 5 years ago

    I just finished clearing a TAF and I'd shoot that pf too just the same for $400 and you'd be sure to not loose out in value in the long run or have a difficult sale. I hate to be brutal but I've seen some killer restorations here on pinside using frisket and airbrushing far better than any of the touch ups some of the so called pros have been doing. I can do almost flawless touch-ups thinning out acrylics and applying multiple coats and doing some conventional masking. I spend about $100 in materials on every clear coat job. And I never charge anybody more than $100 for extensive touch-ups most of the time if there minor I'll just do them for free, because I like to use my own acrylic paints. Any run of the mill auto body shop is going to charge around $300 to clear coat a pf. Lets be realistic there are shitty clear coat jobs out there, but piling on the coats and doing the block sanding is really all that matters aside from good prep work. My policy is if the playfield touch-ups look perfect prior to clearing the final outcome will look killer. More importantly is what materials you are using, whats the point of paying for an aftermarket clear coat job if it's going to be too soft to protect against friction(wear) or dimple and just go to crap over the next year or so. In the past acrylics were too tough to use on a pf and would crack and chip but this company has blended them with soft resins to make one of the most durable and flexible clear coat systems to use on a playfield. There's a 3+ year old thread of more than happy pinsiders who practically swear by it like myself. You really have no idea the depth and durability of this stuff until you've seen it in person likewise. It's only downfall is that it is not uv protective, but that in my opinion is a good thing for black light lighting. And hardly any playfields ever fade without any protection anyways. The only thing on the market right now somewhat comparable to SprayMax2K from what I've seen is a ceramic clear coat that I heard Micro is offering?

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    #68 5 years ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    LOL. That is not my experience, that is Fox News talk. Everybody’s out to get you. I wasn’t trying to attack you, but I stand by what I said. Mebbe think about it

    Well I consider myself to be a conservative liberal but sorry dude I won't be changing my attitude or disposition in life anytime soon it suits me fine. Thanks anyways lol

    #69 5 years ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    It’s important to understand Ron’s curing TIME between coats too. He will let a coat sit for quite a while curing, so that things are absolutely level and clear; it takes months. The clear seeps into the wood and that thing is rock solid but not brittle when done. I have a PF that took 5 months (overkill, I’m just trying to make the point) to cure. The lower layers are fully cured before shooting the next layer

    I spray in one session, 12 coats become 1 thick coat annealed together that will generally cure and pass the fingernail test in about 2-3 days. It will completely harden within 2 weeks once the remainder of the thinners that keep the clear coat wet finally evaporate. In my experience when you block sand between coats with any clear coat if you examine it in the brightest of led lights you'll see each block sanding session's scratches in layers, so you want to keep that at a minimum because that dampers the clarity for me at least. I will do two block sanding sessions with this stuff, prep sanding and a final block sanding. If I'm spraying on a bare pf sometimes I'll shoot a diamond plate like clear coat on it first (2-3 coats) and let that sit overnight then prep sand it before I really start adding multiple coats, mainly just for the inserts to bond well to the clear. If you don't block sand between dried coats that just seems like a poor way to add multiple coats of clear just to achieve depth without giving any integrity (tooth) to make all those coats become one strong layer. Which is the point of spraying a clear coat in the first place to protect the artwork from wear and encapsulate the playfield. Everybody is working with different materials that have very different cure times and very different procedures they have perfected so there's really no comparing any of us.

    #70 5 years ago

    Here's that killer HSA clear job on a NOS TAF for comparison, were all learning from each other it's iron sharpening iron here.

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    #74 5 years ago
    Quoted from Elicash:

    No disrespect to the guy touting his clear coat work - he may be awesome - BUT
    I know from experience that more layers of clear during the process is not necessarily better. Many layers of clear can look amazing and “like glass” on an unpopulated playfield. But after a month, a year, or a couple years you will have problems with the clear lifting at posts, playfield edges, and outholes. I know this all too well from experience with a game I bought with an after market clearcoat job.
    In Clay Harrell’s ‘This Old Pinball’ videos, he addresses this exact issue and list the same symptoms as potential problems due to umpteen layers of clear. In his tutorial episode he does only 2 coats.
    Again- no disrespect to anyone. I just know I got a little burned by this.

    No sweat man, your totally right with using something like varathane or even on the factory diamond plate clear coats I've seen the top coats lifting over inserts, cracking, chipping. Its soft stuff and has a hard time bonding to a plastic insert that has been polished and just has no bite.

    But this stuff is unlike your traditional clear coats and is mostly comprised of acrylics & resins (what they make bulletproof glass out of) much tougher than any soft 2-part urethane or lacquer. The resins bond it together I'm guessing, its kinda like super-glue meets crushed bulletproof glass. I can assure you as many of them as I've finished blocked sanded down now they get much stronger with more layers. In fact if I don't block sand them within 24 hours of finishing the coat it's like trying to file a rock down with a potato chip wet sanding with 2,000 grit. lol It is already time tested and has been used for over 3 years by hundreds of pinsiders, and I think we've somewhat perfected the application.

    Here's the link...
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-spraymax-2k-auto-clear-in-a-can-club

    1 week later
    #77 5 years ago

    Spectacular!

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