(Topic ID: 217506)

Kruzman restored and cleared creature playfield price?


By mmr61184

1 year ago



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  • 90 posts
  • 27 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by mmr61184
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    There are 90 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 1 year ago
    Quoted from 85vett:

    I honestly think you are doing more harm than good here. With the attitude you've presented so far I know I would never support you with work as I'd be afraid that if anything went wrong you would go all out crazy on me.
    Your post was ill placed but still informative. Had me interested so the marketing worked. Then the replies came. A simple, "you're probably right" would have gone over a thousand times better from your potential business clientele. Heck, even keeping your mouth shut would have been better.
    And by the way. "Can do" vs "should do" is what people with class think about before opening their mouth or take action. Their is a time and place and you missed both the time to bring up your company and the place.

    Well I'm glad to not do business with you, thanks for saving me the trouble! I'm sorry I like replying to all these smug narcissistic self centered pot shots. You want to have a conversation about class...you obviously couldn't.

    #52 1 year ago

    Wow.... ...

    #54 1 year ago
    Quoted from 85vett:

    I honestly think you are doing more harm than good here. With the attitude you've presented so far I know I would never support you with work as I'd be afraid that if anything went wrong you would go all out crazy on me.
    Your post was ill placed but still informative. Had me interested so the marketing worked. Then the replies came. A simple, "you're probably right" would have gone over a thousand times better from your potential business clientele. Heck, even keeping your mouth shut would have been better.
    And by the way. "Can do" vs "should do" is what people with class think about before opening their mouth or take action. Their is a time and place and you missed both the time to bring up your company and the place.

    I don't know gmkalos or Grizlyrig, but if someone accused me of being malicious, I'd probably react very strongly (more than gmkalos did). "Malicious" is a VERY strong word, and words have meaning. That's a RIDICULOUS accusation (how's that word?), absent some direct evidence of his intent. Yes, you can deduce from my screen name my profession, but I'm a prosecutor for national security cases, so hardly a slimy defense attorney...

    Personally, I didn't think it was malicious or in poor taste. Out of place, perhaps, but as you say, 85vett, it was informative, and didn't offend me in any way.

    Speaking of screen names and to veer even further off topic, where's the "e" and the end of yours, 85vett? Had a C5 and a C6 Z06; still have a '63 SWC.

    -1
    #55 1 year ago
    Quoted from gmkalos:

    Well I'm glad to not do business with you, thanks for saving me the trouble! I'm sorry I like replying to all these smug narcissistic self centered pot shots. You want to have a conversation about class...you obviously couldn't.

    Kind of like you now stalking all my post and down voting them all? Fortunately I don't care about that but seriously dude. Grow the F-up!

    And you speak about "class"

    #56 1 year ago
    Quoted from SeaLawyer:

    I don't know gmkalos or Grizlyrig, but if someone accused me of being malicious, I'd probably react very strongly (more than gmkalos did). "Malicious" is a VERY strong word, and words have meaning. That's a RIDICULOUS accusation (how's that word?), absent some direct evidence of his intent. Yes, you can deduce from my screen name my profession, but I'm a prosecutor for national security cases, so hardly a slimy defense attorney...
    Personally, I didn't think it was malicious or in poor taste. Out of place, perhaps, but as you say, 85vett, it was informative, and didn't offend me in any way.
    Speaking of screen names and to veer even further off topic, where's the "e" and the end of yours, 85vett? Had a C5 and a C6 Z06; still have a '63 SWC.

    Agree fully and I wasn't the one that called it malicious. It was informative but just ill placed IMHO. It was the reaction to the other poster that I felt would hurt his business. You may want to "fire back" at someone in a forum but if you're trying to sell your product (his post) then that type of reaction is counter intuitive.

    Honestly, not sure why I left the "e" off. Had a 81 and an 85 at the time of the screen name choice. The 85 was the one I restored with my father during college thus the priority of the year in my name. Almost pulled a trigger on a C6 ZO6 until I got a deal I couldn't pass up on a Viper. Will get one some day as it's my wife's favorite Corvette.

    #57 1 year ago

    Pinside, gotta love it

    #58 1 year ago

    Did the OP ever post any before and after pictures of this Creature playfield that he was trying to sell?

    #59 1 year ago
    Quoted from Tommy-dog:

    Did the OP ever post any before and after pictures of this Creature playfield that he was trying to sell?

    No, I am the OP what I was trying to do was get an idea on value. A NOS TAF playfield came up for sale recently and I was contemplating on selling this to fund that. I was trying to get an approx value. I never had before pics since it wasn’t my playfield I know Ron doesn’t really take blown out playfields to restore so it was in pretty good shape before to the best of my knowledge. Game was never touched it’s still in the original wood crate that Ron sent it in stored under a bed. It is a thing of beauty I can say that. If you know Ron you know that nothing less than perfection leaves his shop.

    #60 1 year ago
    Quoted from mmr61184:

    No, I am the OP what I was trying to do was get an idea on value. A NOS TAF playfield came up for sale recently and I was contemplating on selling this to fund that. I was trying to get an approx value. I never had before pics since it wasn’t my playfield I know Ron doesn’t really take blown out playfields to restore so it was in pretty good shape before to the best of my knowledge. Game was never touched it’s still in the original wood crate that Ron sent it in stored under a bed. It is a thing of beauty I can say that. If you know Ron you know that nothing less than perfection leaves his shop.

    I think you got a solid $1,600 pf there man. I recently sold a NOS TAF cleared by HSA on ebay for $1,600, and simultaneously there was another NOS TAF cleared by Kruzman up there for $2K that sold. And personally I think Creature is a way better game ascetically.

    PS sorry MMR for derailing your price quest mon, this comment is what I was originally going to segue to!

    #61 1 year ago
    Quoted from mmr61184:

    If you know Ron you know that nothing less than perfection leaves his shop.

    That is why I asked about pictures. I do know Ron and he is somewhat local to me but some of his work is hit or miss on the touch-up stuff.

    #62 1 year ago
    Quoted from Tommy-dog:

    That is why I asked about pictures. I do know Ron and he is somewhat local to me but some of his work is hit or miss on the touch-up stuff.

    It would be nice to see some pics, how can anybody get tired of seeing cleared playfields! lol

    #63 1 year ago
    Quoted from gmkalos:

    I think you got a solid $1,600 pf there man. I recently sold a NOS TAF cleared by HSA on ebay for $1,600, and simultaneously there was another NOS TAF cleared by Kruzman up there for $2K that sold. And personally I think Creature is a way better game ascetically.
    PS sorry MMR for derailing your price quest mon, this comment is what I was originally going to segue to!

    Ugh I wish I knew about that at 1600 I would have been all over it.

    #64 1 year ago

    This is the nos I was talking about

    https://images.pinside.com/1/d5/bb/1d5bb562cb175d210d2e21dd3abe225f69133c73.jpeg

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    #65 1 year ago

    I just finished clearing a TAF and I'd shoot that pf too just the same for $400 and you'd be sure to not loose out in value in the long run or have a difficult sale. I hate to be brutal but I've seen some killer restorations here on pinside using frisket and airbrushing far better than any of the touch ups some of the so called pros have been doing. I can do almost flawless touch-ups thinning out acrylics and applying multiple coats and doing some conventional masking. I spend about $100 in materials on every clear coat job. And I never charge anybody more than $100 for extensive touch-ups most of the time if there minor I'll just do them for free, because I like to use my own acrylic paints. Any run of the mill auto body shop is going to charge around $300 to clear coat a pf. Lets be realistic there are shitty clear coat jobs out there, but piling on the coats and doing the block sanding is really all that matters aside from good prep work. My policy is if the playfield touch-ups look perfect prior to clearing the final outcome will look killer. More importantly is what materials you are using, whats the point of paying for an aftermarket clear coat job if it's going to be too soft to protect against friction(wear) or dimple and just go to crap over the next year or so. In the past acrylics were too tough to use on a pf and would crack and chip but this company has blended them with soft resins to make one of the most durable and flexible clear coat systems to use on a playfield. There's a 3+ year old thread of more than happy pinsiders who practically swear by it like myself. You really have no idea the depth and durability of this stuff until you've seen it in person likewise. It's only downfall is that it is not uv protective, but that in my opinion is a good thing for black light lighting. And hardly any playfields ever fade without any protection anyways. The only thing on the market right now somewhat comparable to SprayMax2K from what I've seen is a ceramic clear coat that I heard Micro is offering?

    c (resized).JPGd (resized).JPG

    #66 1 year ago

    It’s important to understand Ron’s curing TIME between coats too. He will let a coat sit for quite a while curing, so that things are absolutely level and clear; it takes months. The clear seeps into the wood and that thing is rock solid but not brittle when done. I have a PF that took 5 months (overkill, I’m just trying to make the point) to cure. The lower layers are fully cured before shooting the next layer

    #67 1 year ago
    Quoted from gmkalos:

    "Can do" vs "Should Do" that's what people who "Do Nothing" say IMHO. I'm well aware Pinside is global and unlike some people I don't think I'm better than anybody else or vice versa.

    LOL. That is not my experience, that is Fox News talk. Everybody’s out to get you. I wasn’t trying to attack you, but I stand by what I said. Mebbe think about it

    #68 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    LOL. That is not my experience, that is Fox News talk. Everybody’s out to get you. I wasn’t trying to attack you, but I stand by what I said. Mebbe think about it

    Well I consider myself to be a conservative liberal but sorry dude I won't be changing my attitude or disposition in life anytime soon it suits me fine. Thanks anyways lol

    #69 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    It’s important to understand Ron’s curing TIME between coats too. He will let a coat sit for quite a while curing, so that things are absolutely level and clear; it takes months. The clear seeps into the wood and that thing is rock solid but not brittle when done. I have a PF that took 5 months (overkill, I’m just trying to make the point) to cure. The lower layers are fully cured before shooting the next layer

    I spray in one session, 12 coats become 1 thick coat annealed together that will generally cure and pass the fingernail test in about 2-3 days. It will completely harden within 2 weeks once the remainder of the thinners that keep the clear coat wet finally evaporate. In my experience when you block sand between coats with any clear coat if you examine it in the brightest of led lights you'll see each block sanding session's scratches in layers, so you want to keep that at a minimum because that dampers the clarity for me at least. I will do two block sanding sessions with this stuff, prep sanding and a final block sanding. If I'm spraying on a bare pf sometimes I'll shoot a diamond plate like clear coat on it first (2-3 coats) and let that sit overnight then prep sand it before I really start adding multiple coats, mainly just for the inserts to bond well to the clear. If you don't block sand between dried coats that just seems like a poor way to add multiple coats of clear just to achieve depth without giving any integrity (tooth) to make all those coats become one strong layer. Which is the point of spraying a clear coat in the first place to protect the artwork from wear and encapsulate the playfield. Everybody is working with different materials that have very different cure times and very different procedures they have perfected so there's really no comparing any of us.

    #70 1 year ago

    Here's that killer HSA clear job on a NOS TAF for comparison, were all learning from each other it's iron sharpening iron here.

    024 (resized).JPG
    #71 1 year ago
    Quoted from Saveleaningtower:

    regular creature playfield repaired and cleared by ron -1800 to 2200
    nude creature playfield repaired (even though from factory as work always needs to be done) and cleared by ron - 2800 to 3400

    Ok I’m sure I’ll sound like a prude here, but there’s just no way those nude playfields are worth 50% more than the regular playfields, probably worth less in fact. They’re a “custom” playfield, and while a few collectors might want them, the majority would not approve. Hell, most family game rooms couldn’t have that in there. I’ve seen a few of these playfields and it’s damn fine work. But it also changes a major part of the artwork for the game. To a “purist” or even just a regular collector, I would think that change would make people think hard before buying it. To each his own I guess!

    #72 1 year ago

    No disrespect to the guy touting his clear coat work - he may be awesome - BUT

    I know from experience that more layers of clear during the process is not necessarily better. Many layers of clear can look amazing and “like glass” on an unpopulated playfield. But after a month, a year, or a couple years you will have problems with the clear lifting at posts, playfield edges, and outholes. I know this all too well from experience with a game I bought with an after market clearcoat job.

    In Clay Harrell’s ‘This Old Pinball’ videos, he addresses this exact issue and list the same symptoms as potential problems due to umpteen layers of clear. In his tutorial episode he does only 2 coats.

    Again- no disrespect to anyone. I just know I got a little burned by this.

    #73 1 year ago

    This is correct , clear, cure for at least a few weeks, sand it down as much as you can, repeat two more times , then block/polish.

    Quoted from Elicash:

    No disrespect to the guy touting his clear coat work - he may be awesome - BUT
    I know from experience that more layers of clear during the process is not necessarily better. Many layers of clear can look amazing and “like glass” on an unpopulated playfield. But after a month, a year, or a couple years you will have problems with the clear lifting at posts, playfield edges, and outholes. I know this all too well from experience with a game I bought with an after market clearcoat job.
    In Clay Harrell’s ‘This Old Pinball’ videos, he addresses this exact issue and list the same symptoms as potential problems due to umpteen layers of clear. In his tutorial episode he does only 2 coats.
    Again- no disrespect to anyone. I just know I got a little burned by this.

    #74 1 year ago
    Quoted from Elicash:

    No disrespect to the guy touting his clear coat work - he may be awesome - BUT
    I know from experience that more layers of clear during the process is not necessarily better. Many layers of clear can look amazing and “like glass” on an unpopulated playfield. But after a month, a year, or a couple years you will have problems with the clear lifting at posts, playfield edges, and outholes. I know this all too well from experience with a game I bought with an after market clearcoat job.
    In Clay Harrell’s ‘This Old Pinball’ videos, he addresses this exact issue and list the same symptoms as potential problems due to umpteen layers of clear. In his tutorial episode he does only 2 coats.
    Again- no disrespect to anyone. I just know I got a little burned by this.

    No sweat man, your totally right with using something like varathane or even on the factory diamond plate clear coats I've seen the top coats lifting over inserts, cracking, chipping. Its soft stuff and has a hard time bonding to a plastic insert that has been polished and just has no bite.

    But this stuff is unlike your traditional clear coats and is mostly comprised of acrylics & resins (what they make bulletproof glass out of) much tougher than any soft 2-part urethane or lacquer. The resins bond it together I'm guessing, its kinda like super-glue meets crushed bulletproof glass. I can assure you as many of them as I've finished blocked sanded down now they get much stronger with more layers. In fact if I don't block sand them within 24 hours of finishing the coat it's like trying to file a rock down with a potato chip wet sanding with 2,000 grit. lol It is already time tested and has been used for over 3 years by hundreds of pinsiders, and I think we've somewhat perfected the application.

    Here's the link...
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-spraymax-2k-auto-clear-in-a-can-club

    #75 1 year ago

    Pics for
    Those that wanted to see it

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    #76 1 year ago

    Looks really nice. Mine is being worked on as we speak. I love knowing that he will not overlook any detail... it’s not just clear. Ron touch us up and improves any artwork he can, and the backside does not get ignored either

    #77 1 year ago

    Spectacular!

    #78 1 year ago

    What is up with the shooter lane? It looks like it was sanded too much and is too wide now. The bulb burn in the wood-grain areas should have either been sanded out or airbrushed on this restoration. It looks like an amateur did it. Who did the restoration on this?

    #79 1 year ago
    Quoted from Tommy-dog:

    What is up with the shooter lane? It looks like it was sanded too much and is too wide now. The bulb burn in the wood-grain areas should have either been sanded out or airbrushed on this restoration. It looks like an amateur did it. Who did the restoration on this?

    Ron Kruzman, definitley isn’t an amateur he is notoriously meticulous and beat clear coat around. I assume he left the bulb burn since they are areas that are hidden once the playfield is populated. Shooter lane is fine probably the reflection of the pic.

    #80 1 year ago

    Who restored the Creature playfield on page 1, post #38? That was a nice restoration.

    #81 1 year ago

    Good day folks. The only thing I have to say that has not been said over and over again, is when I do work for someone, or a restoration, I only worry about 2 people, My standards and the customers. I am not producing art for the museum and people to enjoy. I take someones pf, and I do the best work I can do that meets the customers budget, and my own standard of quality.
    The customers expectations are a mix of his /her money, along with my reputation from a decade of focusing on pf's, usually.
    My standards are a mix of what I can do, what I know can be done, and my procedure which has evolved from being a part of the community and getting to see my installed work after 10 years at someones house or at a show. So my clearcoat service has no options. I will only do the procedure that I believe will last the longest while looking fine. Also I wont clear a pf with what I deem flaws, like cracks around inserts, chips, or bad screening. I had to take that option away from the customer because the pf's change hands like trading cards, and the new owner may not know that the original customer didnt have the money to make a nos pf as nice as it was the day it was made.

    When it comes to restorations, I only work with a handful of people who know what to expect, and I know what they want. We put together a budget, and I fix the stuff that is most important, and then stuff that is biggest bang for the buck. Unfortunately, few customers have the money or need to go much further. For me as long as it is something I am proud of. Nothing has ever left my shop that I am not proud of. So if you know what my expectations are, you can decide if my work will be right for you, if not I can try to describe them. This is customer service. I am working t make a client happy. My work on pf's is not my manifesto, or an artistic statement. I am pretty sure anyone who does pf's or restorations for a living is looking at it the same way. It would be a different story, if I spent my free time doing one resto a year, and then had a showing. Man, would that be a blast, and it would probably turn some heads. Maybe later in life when I have the time.

    So , I just wanted to take a couple minutes of your time to make this point that is pretty obvious, clear, because I think it gets forgot. I have to say, it is pretty flattering to have my name discussed and recognized. It still hurts a little when someone is b.s'ing and saying things about my work because they dont like me, but its the net, and there is a clot of crazy stuff on it.

    As always, I seriously thank my supporters, and by that I mean the people I work for but also the people who know me, and my work, and are confident dropping my name when someone asks, "where can I get my pf fixed up" or if they have a question about pf's. I will keep doing, with this support, so thanks again.

    #82 1 year ago

    The IPB nude repros weren't cheap even back when Gene ran them. Years ago I got one second-hand, and Ron worked his magic on it. This was all before I even sourced a Creech for it. I was looking for a player's and ended up with a partially restored one which already had a pf that was touched up and cleared by Bill Davis. So, the new IPB nude is still not installed. I don't see the point in doing so until I have nothing better to do, so like, in ten years after I retire. Nevertheless, every pf that Ron has done for me over the years has been a work of art.

    To the OP's original question - I would value the Kruzman restored original higher than a repro. Many would value it higher than a repro that Ron subsequently fixed the clear on. I would tend to agree. You just have to find the right buyer.

    #83 1 year ago
    Quoted from mrbillishere:

    The IPB nude repros weren't cheap even back when Gene ran them.

    To the OP's original question - I would value the Kruzman restored original higher than repro.

    I remember paying Gene $100 more for the special nude version. I bought it directly from him at the Kalamazoo pinball show years ago.

    If you are referring to the one pictured in this post, I would value this restored playfield much lower to a repro new playfield. That restoration was terrible. The custom nude playfield on page one was extremely nice but I don't think Ron had anything to do with that restoration.

    I know Ron personally and would consider him a friend. Some of his restorations look ok, some are not. This Creature playfield that he did is not his best work, sorry to say but just being honest.

    #84 1 year ago
    Quoted from Tommy-dog:

    I remember paying Gene $100 more for the special nude version. I bought it directly from him at the Kalamazoo pinball show years ago.
    If you are referring to the one pictured in this post, I would value this restored playfield much lower to a repro new playfield. That restoration was terrible. The custom nude playfield on page one was extremely nice but I don't think Ron had anything to do with that restoration.
    I know Ron personally and would consider him a friend. Some of his restorations look ok, some are not. This Creature playfield that he did is not his best work, sorry to say but just being honest.

    I guess it’s all in the eye of the beholder to me it looks beautiful and am proud to put it in a game some day. The touch up work to me is perfect and so is the clear. I don’t think I know a single person that would say that kruzman s work is anything less than perfect. His name is among the top every time. I will take his work on an original over any repro out there. Sounds to me like there is an underlying issue here. I am not going to comment any further. The playfield is not for sale at this point I found the cash to fund my NOS Addams family.

    #85 1 year ago

    opinions. god bless them. I dont know tommy boy.

    #86 1 year ago
    Quoted from kruzman:

    opinions. god bless them. I dont know tommy boy.

    Do you know Tommy-girl? I ask as I know over the years that has been your preference.

    Brad

    #87 1 year ago

    Michael (op), is the date on the back of that pf? I think I found it in my file from 2011.

    #88 1 year ago
    Quoted from kruzman:

    Michael (op), is the date on the back of that pf? I think I found it in my file from 2011.

    I wouldn’t be able to tell you until this weekend. Playfield is at my in-laws place and I will be up there this weekend

    #89 1 year ago

    If there is a crown stamp on the back (from my great grandmothers polish grocery store) then it is from before 2011. maybe 2008-2010, Give or take, I hadn't figured out the best way to keep track of stuff, and my records look like I was still drinking back then. (since they dont make a lot of sense)

    #90 1 year ago
    Quoted from kruzman:

    If there is a crown stamp on the back (from my great grandmothers polish grocery store) then it is from before 2011. maybe 2008-2010, Give or take, I hadn't figured out the best way to keep track of stuff, and my records look like I was still drinking back then. (since they dont make a lot of sense)

    Hahah so if I see a crown should I worry about the workmanship . Just messing with you bud

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    Cabinet - Other
    PinGraffix Pinside Shop
    $ 65.00
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    Texas Pinball
    $ 15.00
    $ 90.00
    $ 29.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Full Tilt Pinball LEDs
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