Fairfield, CT
Hi trying to get an idea on what I can get for a beautifully restored and cleared by Ron Kruzman creature from the black lagoon. Was saving it for a rainy day but running out of room for another game
(Topic ID: 217506)
post some pics but if restored by one of the best, i would say 8000 to 8500. but impossible to tell without more details
Quoted from mmr61184:Hi trying to get an idea on what I can get for a beautifully restored and cleared by Ron Kruzman creature from the black lagoon. Was saving it for a rainy day but running out of room for another game
Kruzman ONLY does playfields, so you would need to post pics of the cab and the rest of the game to get an accurate idea. I would say in the 7s but what do I know.
Are you just talking about the playfield?
Or is it you have a nice creature with a cleared playfield by Kruzman installed. Is there any mods? Or is it just stock.
Having some of the key mods make a big difference.
1. Tailgate mod.
2. Snack bar mod
3. Mike D mod
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Kruzman ONLY does playfields, so you would need to post pics of the cab and the rest of the game to get an accurate idea. I would say in the 7s but what do I know.
I agree.
This should be interesting. I will throw this out also.
I have 1 of 25 of the Illinois pinball original nude playfields with v legs in car cleared by kruzman also.
How about speculation on both.
Magicchiz
Not to hijack, but interested to see if there is a $ difference.
regular creature playfield repaired and cleared by ron -1800 to 2200
nude creature playfield repaired (even though from factory as work always needs to be done) and cleared by ron - 2800 to 3400
Quoted from Saveleaningtower:regular creature playfield repaired and cleared by ron -1800 to 2200
nude creature playfield repaired (even though from factory as work always needs to be done) and cleared by ron - 2800 to 3400
So Kruzman - as far as I k ow and talked to him last week - is no longer doing restorations, just clear jobs. For clear he charger between 500-700. As I myself have a creature playfield in need of restoration and with HSA no more it’s slim pickings
Quoted from Saveleaningtower:regular creature playfield repaired and cleared by ron -1800 to 2200
nude creature playfield repaired (even though from factory as work always needs to be done) and cleared by ron - 2800 to 3400
I'm tight with money but I was thinking you were $200- to much on the low side and high side, unless it's with free shipping.
-Mike
Quoted from mmr61184:Interesting, no remakes on the horizon either
Stephen from Mirco will be shipping Creature Playfields soon.
Quoted from Soulrider911:So Kruzman - as far as I k ow and talked to him last week - is no longer doing restorations, just clear jobs. For clear he charger between 500-700. As I myself have a creature playfield in need of restoration and with HSA no more it’s slim pickings
So who still does playfield restorations? The only two I can think of are Neo and HEP.
Quoted from gweempose:So who still does playfield restorations? The only two I can think of are Neo and HEP.
You are correct and some other lesser know names
Quoted from mmr61184:Yes but how many have the quality Kruzman clear coat
At the quoted prices of $1800-$2200 all of them could 
It's not NOS though so that may make a difference to some.
Quoted from 85vett:At the quoted prices of $1800-$2200 all of them could
It's not NOS though so that may make a difference to some.
Most of the playfield remakes have less than desirable clear jobs is what I am getting at.
Quoted from mmr61184:Yes but how many have the quality Kruzman clear coat
Dont care. Nothing against his work. Just not something I absolutely must have.
Nobody can even say they come close to Ron's work. I've seen ALOT of other peoples clears and touch ups and there is just no comparison by far. Sure Ron is expensive but I've always believed you get what you pay for and this is a perfect example of that. If you want it cheaper then by all means let someone else do it but don't be surprised you regret it in the end and that's after its installed. If your gonna have it done why not have it done the best that it can be by someone that's done it for years with a 100% positive rating. For a few extra hundred then what someone might charge it's well worth the extra money. Only problem is that Ron is his own worst critic and it will not leave until he as scrutinized every little detail and yes he will still do some touch ups on a NOS/Repro playfield like around light inserts if needed. Now getting him to do an entire restore is a different story and I don't blame him. Should he be getting $10 per hour or $1 per hour? Because that's pretty much what the difference is between doing just a clear and doing a full blown restoration. The choice is obvious all though it took him years to start turning away playfields that were a wreck to begin with and he finally came to his senses. This is his ONLY income and he has to feed himself and pay the mortgage and bills all on playfield clear coating.
Off my soap box now.
John
Quoted from NPO:Dont care. Nothing against his work. Just not something I absolutely must have.
Probably because you’ve never seen his work in person
Quoted from Dayhuff:Nobody can even say they come close to Ron's work. I've seen ALOT of other peoples clears and touch ups and there is just no comparison by far. Sure Ron is expensive but I've always believed you get what you pay for and this is a perfect example of that. If you want it cheaper then by all means let someone else do it but don't be surprised you regret it in the end and that's after its installed. If your gonna have it done why not have it done the best that it can be by someone that's done it for years with a 100% positive rating. For a few extra hundred then what someone might charge it's well worth the extra money. Only problem is that Ron is his own worst critic and it will not leave until he as scrutinized every little detail and yes he will still do some touch ups on a NOS/Repro playfield like around light inserts if needed. Now getting him to do an entire restore is a different story and I don't blame him. Should he be getting $10 per hour or $1 per hour? Because that's pretty much what the difference is between doing just a clear and doing a full blown restoration. The choice is obvious all though it took him years to start turning away playfields that were a wreck to begin with and he finally came to his senses. This is his ONLY income and he has to feed himself and pay the mortgage and bills all on playfield clear coating.
Off my soap box now.
John
All you need to do is see one PF done by literally anyone, past or present, and see it side by side with a Kruzman “looks-like-glass” PF.
And then look at one in 6 months after 1000 plays. Kruzman’s will look the same.
I get it that there are people who don’t think it’s a “must have” - that’s a shoot, none of us “NEED!” these games. But if you are serious about a title, there’s no alternative. Plus Ron is a super up front guy who never gets the credit he deserves.
Quoted from Dayhuff:Nobody can even say they come close to Ron's work. I've seen ALOT of other peoples clears and touch ups and there is just no comparison by far. Sure Ron is expensive but I've always believed you get what you pay for and this is a perfect example of that. If you want it cheaper then by all means let someone else do it but don't be surprised you regret it in the end and that's after its installed. If your gonna have it done why not have it done the best that it can be by someone that's done it for years with a 100% positive rating. For a few extra hundred then what someone might charge it's well worth the extra money. Only problem is that Ron is his own worst critic and it will not leave until he as scrutinized every little detail and yes he will still do some touch ups on a NOS/Repro playfield like around light inserts if needed. Now getting him to do an entire restore is a different story and I don't blame him. Should he be getting $10 per hour or $1 per hour? Because that's pretty much what the difference is between doing just a clear and doing a full blown restoration. The choice is obvious all though it took him years to start turning away playfields that were a wreck to begin with and he finally came to his senses. This is his ONLY income and he has to feed himself and pay the mortgage and bills all on playfield clear coating.
Off my soap box now.
John
Couldn’t be said any better my friend
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:All you need to do is see one PF done by literally anyone, past or present, and see it side by side with a Kruzman “looks-like-glass” PF.
And then look at one in 6 months after 1000 plays. Kruzman’s will look the same.
I get it that there are people who don’t think it’s a “must have” - that’s a shoot, none of us “NEED!” these games. But if you are serious about a title, there’s no alternative. Plus Ron is a super up front guy who never gets the credit he deserves.
This is what makes it so hard to sell. I don’t think I can
Interesting the timing of this topic. So I just found a brand new ipb creature playfield. Known for having some of the best clear jobs of any reproduction playfields. But guess where it’s going, directly to Ron. Some may same I’m crazy. But this game is a grail Pin for me and when I restore games I go above and beyond.
How about Bill Davis cc'd playfields. Same, better or worse than Kruzman? Kruzman said he was the best and learned from him.
Quoted from robotron911:Probably because you’ve never seen his work in person
I have. I just don't "need it that badly".
Just because other people do does not necessarily stipulate I MUST have it too...
Quoted from mmr61184:Most of the playfield remakes have less than desirable clear jobs is what I am getting at.
I've got that but what I'm saying is for less than what people are valuing this at you could buy a Mirco PF and have Ron clear it for several hundred less. This will probably be a $900 shipped playfield by Mirco. Send it to Ron and pay the higher side of his rate at $700 and you are still less than the low end of the $1800-$2200 that was quoted.
That is why I said, you'd need to find someone that wants NOS vs Repo.
If this was a FS thread I'd keep my mouth shut but since this was a thread asking for feedback on value. Knowing the following makes it hard for me to agree on some of the values being proposed:
- a repo is coming
- Not everyone wants/needs the extra perfect CC jobs
- you could get your repo cleared by Ron and it would be cheaper
- The Mirco PF's are coming will pretty good clears now. Not to the level of Ron but will satisfy most of the non super high end restorer population. That population would prefer a restored original/NOS anyways
All you can do is place it for sale for what you are willing to take. If it sells, great. If not, then you know the market.
Quoted from robotron911:Probably because you’ve never seen his work in person
I think we all agree his work is super top-notch, doesn't mean peeps want to pay a ton for it whether it's worth it or not.
Quoted from mmr61184:This is what makes it so hard to sell. I don’t think I can
Easy to close the thread
Quoted from 85vett:I've got that but what I'm saying is for less than what people are valuing this at you could buy a Mirco PF and have Ron clear it for several hundred less. This will probably be a $900 shipped playfield by Mirco. Send it to Ron and pay the higher side of his rate at $700 and you are still less than the low end of the $1800-$2200 that was quoted.
That is why I said, you'd need to find someone that wants NOS vs Repo.
If this was a FS thread I'd keep my mouth shut but since this was a thread asking for feedback on value. Knowing the following makes it hard for me to agree on some of the values being proposed:
- a repo is coming
- Not everyone wants/needs the extra perfect CC jobs
- you could get your repo cleared by Ron and it would be cheaper
- The Mirco PF's are coming will pretty good clears now. Not to the level of Ron but will satisfy most of the non super high end restorer population. That population would prefer a restored original/NOS anyways
All you can do is place it for sale for what you are willing to take. If it sells, great. If not, then you know the market.
This is exactly what I was looking for that kind of feedback, that comparison is apples to apples. One that is stock cleared definitely not. Its like anything else the people that want the top quality work will pay for it I was just trying to get an idea since I would be considering using it to fund something else i am looking to buy. Thank you for the advice
For me, and I'm sure maybe in the minority, but I'd pay $1800 for original restored playfield by Ron over a new repop redone by him. I prefer original nowadays. I'm seeing more and more issues with new playfields with some pretty nagging issues (Not picking on any of them and very appreciative that they do offer them) that to me it's worth paying a premium for an original one done by Ron.
Roosendaal
Looks good, but please remember to mark things like that as Not safe for Work. Having boobs pop up wasn't great. I should have been working anyways but like to check between meetings I marked them for you.
Quoted from 85vett:Looks good, but please remember to mark things like that as Not safe for Work. Having boobs pop up wasn't great. I should have been working anyways but like to check between meetings I marked them for you.
Yes, please, I had someone in my cube
1 week later
I believe in giving credit where credit is due and Kruzman is the best hands down, but there's others out there like myself working to be as good!
I use SM2K (acrylic & resins) apply 12 heavy coats, then block sand it wet flat as glass. One of the hardest 2-part clear coat systems out there, these clear coats do not dimple or seem to have any imperfections after 1,000's of games on my own Party Zone, and on other playfields I've cleared. Reasonably priced at $400 plus return shipping, here's a link...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/playfield-clear-coat-service-for-pinball-machines
Quoted from gmkalos:I use SM2K (acrylic & resins) apply 12 heavy coats, then block sand it wet flat as glass! One of the hardest 2-part clear coat systems out there, my clear jobs do not dimple or have any imperfections after 1,000+ games on my Party Zone, and with other playfields I've cleared. Reasonably priced at $400 plus return shipping, here's a link...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/playfield-clear-coat-service-for-pinball-machines
I think your post or advertising in this topic is being done maliciously and is poor taste.
We are clearly talking about the pricing of a specific playfield that Ron Kruzman worked on.
Whether or not you do good work or want to compare against someone else this was not where to do it. You can very easily go back to say the Centaur playfield that Ron Kruzman did(plenty of pics on pinside) and make a topic of you VS Kruzman showing lots of pics too please. Looking forward to your topic.
-Mike
Quoted from Grizlyrig:I think your post or advertising in this topic is being done maliciously and is poor taste.
We are clearly talking about the pricing of a specific playfield that Ron Kruzman worked on.
Whether or not you do good work or want to compare against someone else this was not where to do it. You can very easily go back to say the Centaur playfield that Ron Kruzman did(plenty of pics on pinside) and make a topic of you VS Kruzman showing lots of pics too please. Looking forward to your topic.
-Mike
Dude are you serious...I can post wherever I want there's nothing malicious, I've talked with Kruzman and the Op of this thread many of times about clear coating chill out. Next time maybe don't "think" out loud and especially when you're showing such little class as to try and belittle me dude!
Quoted from gmkalos:Dude are you serious...I can post wherever I want there's nothing malicious, I've talked with Kruzman and the Op of this thread many of times chill out. Next time maybe don't "think " out loud! lol
Yes I was serious. If you are going to advertise in a topic that has nothing to do with your work I think you would have already setup a vs topic. If others can do all these machine vs machine then why can't I suggest a clearcoater vs clearcoater? I don't feel I'm out of line.
-Mike
Quoted from Grizlyrig:Yes I was serious. If you are going to advertise in a topic that has nothing to do with your work I think you would have already setup a vs topic. If others can do all these machine vs machine then why can't I suggest a clearcoater vs clearcoater? I don't feel I'm out of line.
-Mike
Dude this is a FREE country I'll gladly chime in and say whatever I'd like to regardless of what you "think" thank you...even if it is a little bit of shameless self promoting. lol
Good snapshot of current US misunderstandings of “can do” vs “should do”. Also, let’s not forget Pinside is international
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Good snapshot of current US misunderstandings of “can do” vs “should do”. Also, let’s not forget Pinside is international
"Can do" vs "Should Do" that's what people who "Do Nothing" say IMHO. I'm well aware Pinside is global and unlike some people I don't think I'm better than anybody else or vice versa.
I honestly think you are doing more harm than good here. With the attitude you've presented so far I know I would never support you with work as I'd be afraid that if anything went wrong you would go all out crazy on me.
Your post was ill placed but still informative. Had me interested so the marketing worked. Then the replies came. A simple, "you're probably right" would have gone over a thousand times better from your potential business clientele. Heck, even keeping your mouth shut would have been better.
And by the way. "Can do" vs "should do" is what people with class think about before opening their mouth or take action. Their is a time and place and you missed both the time to bring up your company and the place.
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